Naruto: "Possible" LS Reactions for God Tiers + Night Guy Stuff

[TheFinalOrder]

I'm gonna keep this simple. In Chapter 672, Guy uses his final technique on Madara, "Night Guy", and runs at him. In the proccess, Guy ends up Bending Space, which is denoted by Madara in this scan.

After doing some careful research, it has come to my attention that the "Bending of Space" is infact a Gravity Wave:

• "Gravitational waves are disturbances in the curvature (fabric) of spacetime, generated by accelerated masses, that propagate as waves outward from their source at the speed of light" (Source).

The Feat (Night Guy) perfectly alligns with the definition of a Gravity Wave BUT in doing so, gives us the answer to whether or not, Guy , was actually Running at the Speed of Light or faster, which has been disproven as the Gravity Wave is shown being faster than he is.

Despite this, Guy, "may" still be "At Least Reletivistic+" in Travel Speed, which brings me to what may be the most controversial part of this thread:

• Madara may possibly have LS Reaction Speed for reacting to the TSB Staff being bent by the Gravity Wave warping space.

This "feat":


I feel has to be discussed by multiple members and staff because it can honestly go either way. All I will say is that it would be fair Label Madara's Reaction Speed at least as "Possibly" Light Speed as the scan definitely presents the possibility of it.


If accepted and allowed, I propose the following Speed Ratings:

• Madara: At Least Reletivistic+. Light Speed Reaction (Reacted to Guy Bending Space and could Keep up with Naruto)

• Guy: At Least Reletivistic+ with 8 gates, higher with Night Guy (Fast enough to surprise Madara )

• Naruto: At Least Reletivistic+. Light Speed Reaction (Fast enough to surprise Madara and is stated in Databooks to have Equal or Greater Reaction Speed than Madara)

Note 1: Sasuke and Kaguya can be discussed later.

Note 2: This actually also supports Naruto potentially dodging Lightfang. If that is accepted and calced, I'm sure a definite value can be given.

________________________________________________

In related news, if the speed stuff doesn't work out (Or even if it does), Juubi Jinchuriki's (Kaguya, Madara, Obito, Naruto) should get "Resistance to Spacetime Manipulation" scaling from Madara as his body was unaffected by Guy bending space, like the TSB was.

Thiss too, is up for debate.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree with it all but like u said more staff discussion is valued. Also might guy bring rel makes enough sense.

I completely agree with the resistance to space time manipulation

Might guy should have it too as well since he was the epicenter of the bending possibly but that could jsut be a trait for Madara like u said


Also recently just learned about gravity waves in school and they can indeed distort space at that speed

 

[Omimi]

i just hope no one blow up

even if it get accept or reject we have to discuses this

 

[Rocker1189]

I personally thought it was weird that Might guy was not relativistic with this. It is clearly said to be his speed and we know that the speed required to do that is theorised to be extremely close to the speed of light.

 

[Paul_Frank]

It has been decided multiple times that bending space with speed is completely unquantifiable

 

[TheFinalOrder]

It has been decided multiple times that bending space with speed is completely unquantifiable

That's not the point of the thread nor the OP.

 

[AstralKing7]

Fortunately we literally have a source at the top from knowledgeable scientists>VSBW

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I personally thought it was weird that Might guy was not relativistic with this. It is clearly said to be his speed and we know that the speed required to do that is theorised to be extremely close to the speed of light.

Well, in my OP, the reason he's rated at Reletivistic+ is through Surprising Madara with his speed. While what you said may be true, I think it's best to leave it feat based for now. It hinges on if Madara is accepted reacting to it.

 

[Omimi]

ask dont talk may be

 

[Rocker1189]

It has been decided multiple times that bending space with speed is completely unquantifiable

But its not, it is unquantifiable in that you cant measure its AP, as it should be, but it is not unquantifiable in speed.

 

[Rocker1189]

Well, in my OP, the reason he's rated at Reletivistic+ is through Surprising Madara with his speed. While what you said may be true, I think it's best to leave it feat based for now. It hinges on if Madara is accepted reacting to it.

Yeah, it was a supporting point.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

ask dont talk may be

I asked.

 

[BlackeJan]

Just waiting for them to come....

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

well, it makes sense if u think about the fact that naruto only has normal eyes, and could still semi see light fang. madara is not only almost as fast as he is, he has much better eyes (sharingan, and even better, the EMS). this should be coherent to if we consider that he could also see it happening (the space bending), but was not fast enough to dodge it (might guy) (sharingan users having this problem is no news btw).

 

[Ronnijuro]

Madara can't even keep up with normal 8 gates Gai so this "Reacted to Guy Bending Space" is crap. And author needed someone to describe what was happening there, ofc he "reacted" for that purpose.

And that technique is above anyone in verse, no one could bend space with their speed so no one has powerscalling from that. Madara could fight against Naruto or Sasuke and keep up with them, so that's another proof why they dont have scalling.

About if the technique is LS or Relativist or whatever, I dont know, wait for the people who know about these things.

 

[AstralKing7]

Tmw it's a stronger Madara. U saying wait for the people who know but we're literally showing u were scientists who are automatically more knowledgeable than any of on the subject saying that this is in fact rel and light speed.

Again back to the top; you do realize Naruto and Sasuke were fight a way stronger Madara right??? Like seriously your talking nonsense. Read Naruto before you confidently say Naruto and Sasuke don't scale to Madara who you didn't know got stronger.

Also no one else replicating the bending space is just WIS.

 

[DontTalkDT]

He doesn't need to react to the propagation of the wave front to do this, though. Just like someone reacting to a gravity lense (which humans are known to do) he only needs to react to the lasting field.

 

[Rocker1189]

Madara can't even keep up with normal 8 gates Gai so this "Reacted to Guy Bending Space" is crap. And author needed someone to describe what was happening there, ofc he "reacted" for that purpose.
And that technique is above anyone in verse, no one could bend space with their speed so no one has powerscalling from that. Madara could fight against Naruto or Sasuke and keep up with them, so that's another proof why they dont have scalling.

About if the technique is LS or Relativist or whatever, I dont know, wait for the people who know about these things.

Then no reactions can be accepted, because author wants to explain what happened, the fact is he reacted and you forget that Madara held back against him to so that he could see what he got.

It really is not, yeah no one else could bend space because they cant use night guy. just like no one else could make fire come out of their hands despite them easily being faster than his 7th gate form. It has to do with technique.

Well, it is because people who study this stuff say so.

 

[AstralKing7]

What of your opinion on rel might guy tho?

 

[Rocker1189]

He doesn't need to react to the propagation of the wave front to do this, though. Just like someone reacting to a gravity lense (which humans are known to do) he only needs to react to the lasting field.

but does it make sense for guy to be relativistic based on what we are shown?

 

[Ronnijuro]

Madara didnt get stronger after he absorbed Shinju if it's this what you mean. He only got more amount of chakra.

There is no difference between Obito before he released the Shinju and after he did it, his power, speed and durability were the same (the amount of chakra is less because of obvious reasons).

 

[AstralKing7]

ƒñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖé´©ÅWe are literally shown Madara got stronger. He got mentee feats as well as way more chakra than Obito as well as the fact that he was stated to be closer to Kaguya than anyone else

Your downplaying or obviously trolling because this is shit that everyone knows

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Calm down dude.

 

[Rocker1189]

yeah astral its cool.

 

[Ronnijuro]

He is more closer to Kaguya in chakra amount, that's your proof? Go reread when Obito released Shinju and before, there is no difference in power (strength/power, durability and speed).

And author emphasized Gai' speed with the bending space, which after no one else did it. So it's pretty clear.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Interesting, but I'll be neutral about Guy.

About LF support ... I think a thread will be created on that when Tata returns and there is also Sasuke's dodge from Kirin, which is legitimate and has not been debunked. I would advise you to remove this part from the CRT, it may give you a headache later.

 

[Sekkonds.]

The whole thing is wrong for :

1_Outlier..a verse that god tiers hasn't shown any sub-rel Feats..and you want them to be Rel+ ?

2_just because in one panal madara describes him with "fast" and in another panal he bends space doesn't mean he bends space with pure speed..thats pretty much headcanon

3_Madara said Guy was the best user of taijutsu (hand to hand combat) that he ever saw. The statement immediately before Madara was stating Guy was bending space was "Fast!", which in the given context means Guy was so fast and powerful that he was bending space. He also made note of Guy's chakra.

4_We have The Databook

translation:

"Maito Guy utilizes the taijutsu move,inherited from his father - "the 8 celestial gates". To unravel the final dragon mystery you have to open the last "death gate" and sacrifice your life (poetic,inst it?TN). From the red stream emission (Guy's blood and chakra. TN), in a form of a red burning chakra the great dragon rises, flying out of the ribcage, absolutely unprecedented kick that hits the opponent and beats (turns) him into nothing. Its power is off limits, overturns the knowledge of anything that taijutsu is capable off, it twists and bends the sky (space) itself on contact, even right side of the body of the strongest ninja Madara was completely destroyed."

Given the context, it states that the power, speed and chakra of Guy is what allows him to bend space. Base sosp Naruto had better speed feats against the same Madara, let alone fighting a fully juiced Madara in his chakra form, and they weren't bending space left and right. Madara also states Guy has unparalleled taijutsu which puts him above Hashirama, who has no noteable special taijutsu techniques, meaning Madara is talking about the power behind his strikes, but he's far below the god-tiers of the verse who never bent space.

 

[Rocker1189]

He is more closer to Kaguya in chakra amount, that's your proof? Go reread when Obito released Shinju and before, there is no difference in power (strength/power, durability and speed).
And author emphasized Gai' speed with the bending space, which after no one else did it. So it's pretty clear.

Obito and Madara are different beasts entirely, what Madara did was very clearly special compared to Obito.

Not really no, there so happens to Naruto dodging the light fang later on which is confirmed light speed. I know a lot of people say he did not dodge or whatever but my piiint is there was a possible etter feat right afterwards there is also Kaguya's having a massive speed boost after getting chakra from the tuskuyomi. And again Madara was clearly holding back. It is pretty clear that the God tiers are fastr than Guy and Madara did react to it.

 

[Rocker1189]

The whole thing is wrong for :
1_Outlier..a verse that god tiers hasn't shown any sub-rel Feats..and you want them to be Rel+ ?

2_just because in one panal madara describes him with "fast" and in another panal he bends space doesn't mean he bends space with pure speed..thats pretty much headcanon 3_Madara said Guy was the best user of taijutsu (hand to hand combat) that he ever saw. The statement immediately before Madara was stating Guy was bending space was "Fast!", which in the given context means Guy was so fast and powerful that he was bending space. He also made note of Guy's chakra.

3_We have The Databook

translation:

"Maito Guy utilizes the taijutsu move,inherited from his father - "the 8 celestial gates". To unravel the final dragon mystery you have to open the last "death gate" and sacrifice your life (poetic,inst it?TN). From the red stream emission (Guy's blood and chakra. TN), in a form of a red burning chakra the great dragon rises, flying out of the ribcage, absolutely unprecedented kick that hits the opponent and beats (turns) him into nothing. Its power is off limits, overturns the knowledge of anything that taijutsu is capable off, it twists and bends the sky (space) itself on contact, even right side of the body of the strongest ninja Madara was completely destroyed."

Given the context, it states that the power, speed and chakra of Guy is what allows him to bend space. Base sosp Naruto had better speed feats against the same Madara, let alone fighting a fully juiced Madara in his chakra form, and they weren't bending space left and right. Madara also states Guy has unparalleled taijutsu which puts him above Hashirama, who has no noteable special taijutsu techniques, meaning Madara is talking about the power behind his strikes, but he's far below the god-tiers of the verse who never bent space.

1. The God tiers are God tiers for a reason and scale massive above their current rating.

2. Dude it is called logic. Might guy is bending space and Madara is remarking about his speed, it is pretty darn clear.

3. That is the point.

Yeah his speed that Madara reacts to when especially holding back to see what he can do. Yes, cause sosp Naruto is faster, you are basically provign our point. Again guy has set his fists on fire with pure speed and taijutsu and yet is slower than the god tiers that never did the same.

This would be like stating that no one in dragon ball verse apart from buu has done the vice shout, so the are clearly not as powerful. Or no one else in bleach verse but naruto and aizen has destroyed thiings with air pressure so they are clearly not as powerful.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Madara can't even keep up with normal 8 gates Gai so this "Reacted to Guy Bending Space" is crap. And author needed someone to describe what was happening there, ofc he "reacted" for that purpose.
And that technique is above anyone in verse, no one could bend space with their speed so no one has powerscalling from that. Madara could fight against Naruto or Sasuke and keep up with them, so that's another proof why they dont have scalling.

About if the technique is LS or Relativist or whatever, I dont know, wait for the people who know about these things.

Except Madara reacted to almost everything Guy did, so, it's not so "BS". You saying Madara couldnt keep up is quite misleading.

Second, Feats > Your Opinion. Gai is faster than Naruto, Madara and Sasuke here, but that just makes him a Higher Reletivistic+ than them as Naruto was still able to Surprise Madara, so moot point.

In fact, Naruto isn't scaling to Guy in the first place, neither is Madara....

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Sekkonds

1 - Completely false. We have several calculations being made, such as Sasuke deflecting from Kirin, which has Sub-Relativistic results and has not been debunked and can not be, unless they contradict the manga. And there is still the feat of the LF, which will be addressed when Tata returns (as far as I know) and then, it would not be Outlier, because they are God Tiers, they always have feats above all in verse.

2 - False. Madara's claim that Guy is fast and soon afterwards, he simply bend the space, already proves that it is through pure speed.
The context indicates that Guy was so fast, that he could bend the space.

3 - Databook does not say any of that.
He literally says Guy's skill in Taijutsu after the activation of the Eighth Gate is so high and powerful, so he can double the space. As the Databook itself says ... "A move that knocks down any knowledge about TAIJUTSU".

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm pretty sure the Kirin thing was rejected in a thread.

 

[Paul_Frank]

The kirin thing was definitely rejected

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Sigurd

It was not and if they simply assumed, it only shows a great lack of character. They have not even been able to refute the principal.

Kep gave a new interpretation, however, which he says contradicts what is seen in the manga. The remainder was rebutted in the thread itself.

There is no outlier, since Genins of the new generation have MHS + feats.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

He doesn't need to react to the propagation of the wave front to do this, though. Just like someone reacting to a gravity lense (which humans are known to do) he only needs to react to the lasting field.

Ok, but you say he doesn't "Need" to. Does that mean he "can't" be reacting to the propagation of the wave?

 

[Damage3245]

The whole Kirin situation has been discussed to death, and as Sigurd and Paul have said, it has been rejected recently in another thread.

Simply being a 'God Tier' which is a made-up term anyway isn't enough to make one immune from Outliers.

 

[Ronnijuro]

Madara is not much stronger than Obito (only has much more durability, not glass cannon like him). He is stronger in general terms because of Hashirama Senin Mode which made him closer to Hagoromo.

"Confirmed" xDD. Funny. A statement carry no weight without proof and the Fang doesnt have any feat (300 000 kms in a second, o 150 000 in 0.5 sec, etc.), the verse itself doesnt have any feat near that and Juubidamas were the fastest things because of their feat to arrive at other countries (which is not even mach 1000) in some seconds until Gai's ultimate jutsu ofc.

Kirin and Haku's technique are LS by databook btw... (Kirin stated in manga like "hundreds of times of speed of sound and well, about Haku's LS no comment at this point). Databook is the same as manga, it can have crap or good statements. One need to prove them or the feats need to not have contradictions.

And btw, Naruto because of his Sage mode has more reaction speed so he is faster than Madara's mouth, and that's all.

 

[Rocker1189]

Madara is not much stronger than Obito (only has much more durability, not glass cannon like him). He is stronger in general terms because of Hashirama Senin Mode which made him closer to Hagoromo.
"Confirmed" xDD. Funny. A statement carry no weight without proof and the Fang doesnt have any feat (300 000 kms in a second, o 150 000 in 0.5 sec, etc.), the verse itself doesnt have any feat near that and Juubidamas were the fastest things because of their feat to arrive at other countries (which is not even mach 1000) in some seconds until Gai's ultimate jutsu ofc.

Kirin and Haku's technique are LS by databook btw... (Kirin stated in manga like "hundreds of times of speed of sound and well, about Haku's LS no comment at this point). Databook is the same as manga, it can have crap or good statements. One need to prove them or the feats need to not have contradictions.

And btw, Naruto because of his Sage mode has more reaction speed so he is faster than Madara's mouth, and that's all.

He is stronger in both durability and power.

Ermm pain has multi thousand mach feats from dodging a rasenshuriken whic is also super fast, I also dont know why you are again scaling low end people to God tiers, which have nothing to do with feats( is this a Naruto only thing?).

Haku's technique is indeed lightspeed in the databook. Kirin is just confirmed to move from cloud to ground in 1/1000 of a second which gives it something from mach 3000 to even much higher speeds depending on the cloud height. And Itachi could keep up. The databook is a databook, the info it gives is correct as long as you ignore very very obvious hype statements.

?? so he is still faster. Your point?

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I'll respond to @sekkonds when I get home to my laptop.

 

[MostPowerfull]

@Damage

False. It was discussed only in the blog and in the thread that was made, in which I participated.

And in the whole situation, nothing was rejected, not even a solution was given to the problem and was led to oblivion. And I refuted Kep and IMade, including you. I refuted each point using only manga and commom sense, so nothing was rejected.

And yes ... There is no such thing as a God Tier not having a bigger feat, just because Mid-High Tiers have MHS+ speed, especially when it's a massive AP upgrade between them.. Would not be outlier.