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Naruto Part II Revisions (Multipliers/Calculations)

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Metalija said:
Minato was about to cut through Ays lightning armor with a kunai.
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Dude. Even Sasuke with Chidori could barely touch through his armour, his Chidori blade also had no effect either, so Minato would break his own kunai on A's armour even if Bee didn't interfere. Unless you're saying Minato's Kunai > Sasuke's chidori.
 
talking about Minato i would like to add that KCM Minato should be Comparable to KCM2 Naruto. not KCM 1 naruto though
 
I’ll write up the High 7-A and higher scale, since I feel like that’ll need some more discussion than the 7-B/7-A one.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
1 through 9
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1. Because Kurama had stronger chakra, not just more chakra, and Naruto gets an entire tailed beast with new techniques. Bijuudama, for example.
2. Because it gets bigger and it has potential to do what a small TSB did, except it's just big. It should even fit as dura negation, but ppl don't want that for some reason.
3. Naruto had Nature energy and Sasuke had stronger chakra, not just more chakra. And did I say "chakra never boosts AP?" I said, not always. Sasuke had 9 bijuu, which makes Six paths chakra, and he put it into an arrow.
4. Because you have more to split up, the heck? How is that AP?
5. So you see that the size correlates with the chakra amount correct? Why do you think it's called "big ball" or "ultra ball".
6. Because it's Naruto's strong ass chakra, the same guy who destroyed the final valley with a regular rasengan, the guy w/ Six Paths Chakra.
7. Because it's strong chakra.
8. Naruto didn't even amp her, she amped him. She gave him certain (Hamura's) chakra that allowed him to touch it without getting his chakra drained
9. Because he had no chakra left.
All you did was switch more with stronger, except for Kaguya's who's is just size. Kishimoto isn't a powerscaler, idky you're acting like he meant "more chakra = more AP".
Shadowbokunohero said:
Equating Kirin with the majority of the shows Jutsu is a false equivalency, the whole point that Kirin has so much AP inspite of it taking so little chakra is what makes it special. (along with it's speed)
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Me: Not always. You: This is different.
My claim what that it's not always a boost.
Shadowbokunohero said:
what??? The Jutsu that outright amps both Tsunade and Sakura to Ridiculous Degrees....
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I was referring to the healing portion. And if anything, it doesn't even say it's an amp, it just allows the healers to fight. Tsunade explains the jutsu in depth. All she says is that she's allowed to fight, unless you compare her pre TS feats to War arc, and say it's because of a diamond on her forehead that she's strong, no. She hasn't even thrown a punch post timeskip until she did that, all she did was heal. Why would it be called healing ninjutsu if it was meant to boost stats. That's like Tracer the other day trying to say that Kakashi was boosted over the timeskip because of a new eye.
Shadowbokunohero said:
This is a non sequitur, comparing different Applications of chakra doesnt suddenly Invalidate the corrolation between Chakra and it's Jutsu. nor is it relevant here in this context because unlike Kamui, the Rain jutsu has measurable energy.
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You're trying to compare a jutsu that makes rain with a 20km range for the sole purpose of sensing people to punching people. Why don't we measure the energy required to split cells for Tsunade? Why don't we measure instantaneous teleportation?
Shadowbokunohero said:
Shadow clones share similar AP to their Original, it's only the durability that gets negged, however with enough Chakra you can amp up the Durability of your clones aswell. as seen by naruto during the war.
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Those slaps in the anime weren't canon. Go to the manga and check that, that was all anime canon. That's why Naruto hasn't done it before.
 
Don't take my huge counter into consideration.

I agree we should go with scaling via arc (idk if we should do it here though, maybe another CRT I suppose).
I agree w/ not cross scaling between part 1 and part 2, since we have no basis on measurement of strength since everyone's improved.
I disagree with multiple keys for base Naruto unless you just mean give him extra techniques. Naruto's base IMO doesn't get stronger until War arc.
LordTracer said:
7-B (13.46 megatons)

7-A (134.68 megatons)

Need more discussion
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I'm fine w/ these, since we have no other basis for the verse scaling.
 
This took way too much time to do and I didn’t include absolutely everyone.

High 7-A (1.56 gigatons - 2.396 gigatons)
Sage Mode Naruto - Over ten times stronger than his base. His Rasenshuriken is this strong.
Pain (Higher-End) - His Shinra Tensei could disperse Sage Naruto’s Rasenshuriken. Could survive the recoil of his own Shinra Tensei and attacks from KN6 Naruto, although he is inferior.
KN6 Naruto - Stronger than Sage Mode, his Bijuudama is this strong.

High 7-A+ (2.65 gigatons)
KCM Naruto - Stated that he was stronger than he was against Pain, which should include KN6, as he now has control over Kurama’s chakra. (KN6 is only 1.1x away from High 7-A+)
100H Sakura - Naruto was afraid of her strength, and Sasuke considers her superior to Naruto. Stated to possibly have greater strength than Tsunade.
EMS Sasuke - Considered to be on the same level as KCM Naruto and 100H Sakura.
V2 Edo Six Paths Jinchūriki - Can harm KCM Naruto.
Edo Itachi - Can trade blows with KCM Naruto.
War Arc Kakashi - Can fight the V2 jinchūriki.
Sixth/Seventh Gate Guy - Can fight the V2 jinchūriki. (I don’t remember which one fought them, I’ll be honest)

6-C (4.3 gigatons - 26.11 gigatons)
BM Edo Six Paths Jinchūriki - Significantly stronger than in their V2 states. Their Bijuudama are this powerful. (6-C, higher with Bijuudama)
KCM2 Naruto - Much stronger than his KCM state. Effortlessly deflected five Bijuudama.
Edo Madara - Effortlessly blocked a Bijuudama from KCM2 Naruto and deflected it back at him.
Alive/Edo Hashirama - Traded blows with Madara.
Alive/Revived Madara - Stronger than his Edo self.
Sage Madara - Over ten times stronger than in his base form. Survived being slapped around by the Two through Seven-Tails.

High 6-C (130.55 gigatons)
Kurama Avatar Naruto - Countered five combined Bijuudama with one of his own.
Sage Madara’s Susano’o - Withstood an attack from Kurama Avatar Naruto and it took all of the Bijuu attacking it simultaneously to destroy it.
Rinnegan Sage Madara - One-shot all of the Bijuu with Limbo.

High 6-C+ (817.87 gigatons)
Madara’s Tengai Shinsei - Is calced at this level.

Low 6-B (1.31 teratons - 2.41 teratons)
Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto - Over ten times stronger than the base Kurama Avatar.
Kurama + Gyūki Combined Bijuudama/Kurama and Gyūki maximum AP - Is calced at this level.
Prime Kurama - Would scale to 2x 50% Kurama’s maximum AP.
Low 6-B+ (6 teratons)
Madara’s Perfect Susano’o - Is calced at this level.

Need more discussion
Rinnegan Obito
Five Kage (Based on their feats, I think they could either be High 7-A+, 6-C or ‘At least High 7-A+, possibly 6-C’)
Sage/KCM/KCM2 Minato
 
I think the Perfect Susano'o calc uses an incorrect size for Madara's Susano'o, but I'll double check that.
 
The size is pixel scaled. We don't know the exact size so don't try to downplay by saying that PS is too big in the calc.
 
LordTracer said:
This took way too much time to do and I didn’t include absolutely everyone.
Click to expand...
I commend you for doing it regardless, you did a lot.
LordTracer said:
High 7-A (1.56 gigatons - 2.396 gigatons)
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This is perfectly fine.
LordTracer said:
High 7-A+ (2.65 gigatons)
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I don't think KCM was stronger than KN6. I'm pretty sure he referred to how he was in Sage Mode. Sabu said V2 is the Bijuu's power trapped in humanoid form, while Naruto just gets a portion of it.
LordTracer said:
6-C (4.3 gigatons - 26.11 gigatons)
Click to expand...
Check KCM opinion from me, but the rest is good.
LordTracer said:
High 6-C (130.55 gigatons)
High 6-C+(817.87 gigatons)
Low 6-B (1.31 teratons - 2.41 teratons)
Low 6-B+ (6 teratons)
Click to expand...
This is perfectly fine..
LordTracer said:
Need more discussion
Click to expand...
Rinnegan Obito w/ mask matched a headbutt with KCM Naruto. Should scale to whatever Kakashi is, as they 1v1ed.
High 7-A+ will be fine. 6-C will hit Bijuu tiers, which I thought was discussed that we don't scale Kage to bijuu.
Throw multiplier for Minato for sage, KCM Naruto's feats should work, give half of Kurama for Minato's avatar for his Tailed Beast Mode.
 
We should put a hold on this and focus on the BoS characters and work our way down the line. There are quite a few calcs that have been created, but not brought up in this discussion yet.
 
KingTempest said:
I don't think KCM was stronger than KN6. I'm pretty sure he referred to how he was in Sage Mode. Sabu said V2 is the Bijuu's power trapped in humanoid form, while Naruto just gets a portion of it.
Click to expand...
The thing is that Naruto was at least somewhat cognizant of what was going on while he was in KN6 and KN8, and Kisame stated that Naruto had control over the Nine-Tails chakra, which he didn’t in the V2 states.

But in the case that a majority agrees to not scaling KCM above KN6, knock KCM2 down to High 7-A+ and the KCM tiers go down to High 7-A. Everything else remains the same though.
KingTempest said:
High 7-A+ will be fine. 6-C will hit Bijuu tiers, which I thought was discussed that we don't scale Kage to bijuu.
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I don’t think there was a consensus on that when it comes to the Five Kage, although the only reason they really have 6-C is because of stuff like A’s strongest punch being able to kill KCM Naruto, Tsunade punching a hole in Madara and being stronger than A, Gaara’s sand blocking strikes from his Susano’o and Mei melting his Susano’o. I wouldn’t like, oppose them being ‘At least High 7-A+’ but some stuff is just seems like it wouldn’t be able to backscale from Madara.
 
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@King tempest.

1. the chakra is stronger because of it's quantity. which is why Naruto literally jumps tiers from just getting a blob of chakra from Kurama (see One tailed)
2. it's stated to be more POWERFUL than a regular TSB in databook as well as the ability to recreate the thing it destroys and this happens because of the amount of chakra it absorbs from the IT.
3. your literal statement was that Chakra does not affect AP.
4. If your 8-C and you make a 100 clones that are all 8-C then your AP would be higher because your dealing out more damage at a time.
5. it doesn't, which is why Naruto at the series isn't throwing around continent-sized rasengans around.
6. yes excellent, so you agree with me then that Chakra does affect your AP
7. The chakra is strong because of its amount.
8. No he amped her. she had the Chakra that was needed to counter the Tenseigan ( think of how Senjutsu counters the TSB) but didn't have enough power to push through and needed naruto's help.
9. Yes otherwise he wouldn't have the AP to counter Naruto


> Me: Not always. You: This is different.
My claim what that it's not always a boost.

Then Kirin is a poor choice for your comparison.
exceptions prove the rule.

> I was referring to the healing portion. And if anything, it doesn't even say it's an amp

your confusing two things here, the strength of a hundred seals with the strength of a hundred Technique which requires the former to do.

> why would it be called healing ninjutsu if it was meant to boost stats

1.Unlocking the strength of a hundred seals Increases your Strength, which is what is needed to do The Hundred healing technique.
also here is Madara commenting on her power.

> You're trying to compare a jutsu that makes rain with a 20km range for the sole purpose of sensing people to punching people

because the rain isn't being made my Ninja hax magic, there is an energy that's behind it, an energy that's being casually created

> those slaps in the anime weren't canon. Go to the manga and check that, that was all anime canon. That's why Naruto hasn't done it before.

what slaps are you reffering to?

​

> Why don't we measure the energy required to split cells for Tsunade? Why don't we measure instantaneous teleportation?

If it's possible to do that then feel free to do it

> Kishimoto isn't a powerscaler, idky you're acting like he meant "more chakra = more AP".

Because im taking what he said as it was intended as oppose to implying intent that isnt there.

Kishimoto not being a powerscale isnt all that relevant here either.

​

 
LordTracer said:
The thing is that Naruto was at least somewhat cognizant of what was going on while he was in KN6 and KN8, and Kisame stated that Naruto had control over the Nine-Tails chakra, which he didn’t in the V2 states.

But in the case that a majority agrees to not scaling KCM above KN6, knock KCM2 down to High 7-A+ and the KCM tiers go down to High 7-A. Everything else remains the same though.
Click to expand...
I don't think he was cognizant, he was shown to have been stressing over Pain's question inside of his brain, shown by the "I don't know" answer to Pain, and he was asking for an "answer". It's more likely he was just stressing in a psychological standpoint.
LordTracer said:
I don’t think there was a consensus on that when it comes to the Five Kage, although the only reason they really have 6-C is because of stuff like Tsunade punching a hole in Madara, Gaara’s sand blocking strikes from his Susano’o and Mei melting his Susano’o. I wouldn’t like, oppose them being ‘At least High 7-A+’ but some stuff is just seems like it wouldn’t be able to backscale from Madara.
Click to expand...
That Susanoo needs its dura checked. He got a Sage Mode amp and Naruto w/out Sage Mode put holes in his susanoo casually.
 
anyway wall of text aside, ( I want to avoid those because I get lost when I come back to the CRT)

what is the current discussion
 
I'm doubtful about K.E. being used for the rain feat. "Forming clouds" does not have to mean dragging them in from somewhere else, and the rainfall that was over the lake where Konan and Obito were fighting was a completely different rain since Nagato was dead.
 
KingTempest said:
I don't think he was cognizant, he was shown to have been stressing over Pain's question inside of his brain, shown by the "I don't know" answer to Pain, and he was asking for an "answer". It's more likely he was just stressing in a psychological standpoint.
Click to expand...
Ig that’s fair, but remember Kisame said KCM had control over the Kyuubi chakra.
KingTempest said:
That Susanoo needs its dura checked. He got a Sage Mode amp and Naruto w/out Sage Mode put holes in his susanoo casually.
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Why wouldn’t its dura be greater than base Madara’s? Extra dura is kinda the point of the Susano’o.
 
I thought we decided 7-B/7-A via scaling from the Rain Tiger at Will calc.
 
I have an idea.

Why don't hit the "Thanos" button on this thread, take all the current proposals (I think Tracer made new ones), all the available calcs, multipliers, and everything in between, put them in a new OP and sort of restart the discussion from that point? I think it'll be easier to keep up with everything if it's all summarized in the OP and without 18 friggin pages to go through lol.
 
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