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Naruto Part 1 Speed Calcs & Ratings

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> Precognition can allow characters to react to attacks faster than they'd normally be able to react to.

AstralKing7, based on that line from the Precognition page at least, it's not that Sasuke's body is equal in speed to when he had the Curse Mark active. It's that his reaction speed is higher than normal.

I think that it should be fine to say he has higher reaction speed with the Sharingan active, but that's all.
 
Post Training Sasuke with Sharingan should have Speed On Par with 1st gate Weightless Rock Lee given Lion's Barrage technically opens the First Gate due to utilizing the Forward Lotus. His Reaction would be Higher than Gated 1 Rock Lee.
 
@TFO; Post-Training Sasuke is scaled to Weightless Rock Lee. But I'm not sure where you're getting that rating for his reactions?
 
Damage3245 said:
@TFO; Post-Training Sasuke is scaled to Weightless Rock Lee. But I'm not sure where you're getting that rating for his reactions?
Click to expand...
I'll grab the Scan, but no, What I mean is:

  • Post Training Sasuke is Equal to Weightless Rock Lee.
  • PT Sasuke w/ Sharingan Has Faster Reaction Speed than Rock Lee
  • PT Sasuke with Sharingan using Lion's Barrage Should be Equivalent to 1st Gate Weightless Rock Lee.
Thus, with Sharingan, PT Sasuke should have Reaction Speed on Par with First Gate Lee's Speed Ingeneral.
 
...Sasuke doesn't have pre cog anymore which is the point. That page doesn't apply to him. Also I'm still talking about the statement not the sharingan anymore. He literally compared his now base form to when he was influenced with the curse seal in the previous arcs. That's what I'm talking about. His now base is faster that his curse state back then. So that's an increase an speed from base/sharingan,curse seal/sharingan, and his finals stages
 
@Damage

This is the Scan regarding Sasuke's Reaction Speed stated by Lee himself.

But, Lion's Barrage Incorporates the Foward Lotus, so Sasuke when he's using it, should be equal in Speed to 1st Gate Lee but that means his overall reaction speed should be above Lee's 1st Gate Speed.
 
AstralKing7 said:
...Sasuke doesn't have pre cog anymore which is the point. That page doesn't apply to him. Also I'm still talking about the statement not the sharingan anymore. He literally compared his now base form to when he was influenced with the curse seal in the previous arcs. That's what I'm talking about. His now base is faster that his curse state back then. So that's an increase an speed from base/sharingan,curse seal/sharingan, and his finals stages
Click to expand...
What...?
 
@TFO, in terms of reaction speed, maybe. But I don't see Sasuke overall being as fast as Lee with the gates.
 
Damage3245 said:
@TFO, in terms of reaction speed, maybe. But I don't see Sasuke overall being as fast as Lee with the gates.
Click to expand...
Only when using Lion's Barrage as it Incorporates Forward Lotus, which opens the First Gate. And his Reaction Speed with Sharingan would have to be because of that.
 
@TFO, it incorporates only part of the Forward Lotus. To achieve the same level of speed, he's actually need to open the First Gate which he can't do.

Sasuke can mimic Rock Lee's style of movement, not his actual level of speed. He can't make himself five times faster than his limits on a whim.
 
@Damage

The Forward Lotus itself Opens the First Gate, Lee himself can open it, but he does so only with Lotus (Scan In Questio )

The Level of Speed isn't the issue. It's the strain on the body that is. "Speed" is not a factor in opening the Kaimon Gate. So Sasuke attempting to Mimic the Forward Lotus, still opens the First Gate and this is what the issue was when Sasuke first used it (Scan 1 | Scan 2).

  • Lee Admits Sasuke Copied the Forward Lotus.
  • Sasuke shows symptoms of Opening First Gate. (Statement of the Affects of Foward Lotus)
  • Further statements from Gai
The only difference between the two are the 3rd Sequences. And again, I'm not saying Sasuke can open the Kaimon Gate on a Whim. Just that he opens it when using Lions Barrage because Foward Lotus itself opens the 1st Gate.
 
What...?


Yeah. I think u had missed it but a revision had went through to rewrite the pre cog page and also make abilities called analytical prediction. People believe sharingan users have analytical prediction and they got that but they didn't realize sharingan users dotn felt the description of analytical prediction that they wrote.

I plan on making a crt for it sometimes in the future because it actually should still be considered pre cog
 
Chünin Exams

First Stage:

  • sasuke perception speed MHS
  • was also able to perceived Forward Lotus but his body was slow to take any action
  • Feat from chapter-37
Preliminarie:

  • sasuke with Lions Barrage MHS
  • feat from chapter 67 to 68
Finals:

  • Sasuke's Reaction Speed atleast MHS
  • lee said Sasuke's Reaction Speed faster then his
  • stetement from chapter114
 
@Omimi; in the first stage when Rock Lee used that move on him, Rock Lee was restricted by weights and far from his usual speed.

@TFO; Sasuke never witnessed the full Front Lotus, he only copied the initial setup step of it which is to kick the opponent into the air and get behind them.

I can buy that Sasuke's reaction speed is MHS by the Valley of the End, but he doesn't fight at MHS speeds when using the Lion's Barrage.
 
Damage3245 said:
@TFO; Sasuke never witnessed the full Front Lotus, he only copied the initial setup step of it which is to kick the opponent into the air and get behind them.
I can buy that Sasuke's reaction speed is MHS by the Valley of the End, but he doesn't fight at MHS speeds when using the Lion's Barrage.
Click to expand...
He didn't have to witness the spinning part. The Front Lotus (All Parts) only happens when the 1st Gate is Open. This is why the user is extremely Fatigued and Exhausted afterwards. Sasuke has demonstraited these effects on his body after using Lion's Barrage.

The implication is clear. It seems like you're Implying the 3rd step is the only part with the Gate Opened or that the Gate Opens after the 3rd Step and neither of those makes sense.
 
@TheFinalOrder; what I'm saying is that while Sasuke copied the movements (kicking an opponent from underneath to knock them into the air), he did not copy the speed at which Rock Leee could do it.

Sure, Sasuke probably attacked faster than he normally does because he was using a different fighting style, but we need more evidence to say that he just increased his speed five times.

So far as I know, Sasuke has never been listed as a user of the Eight Gates in any official material.

EDIT: To do the entire Front Lotus would require the First Gate (since the main part of is the high-speed pile driver into the ground) but Sasuke doesn't go that far. He only performs the setup for it.
 
So your agreeing that Sasuke attacks faster than he normally does which is support. Also the fact that he did the front lotus. He just didn't put the spin onto it.
 
@AstralKing7;

He didn't do the Front Lotus. He did the setup for it (kicking opponent into the air and following them), what he does after that is just a combination of kicks and punches before they hit the ground. The Front Lotus that Lee performs is completely different after the setup.

For some additional evidence; when Rock Lee does the setup against Sasuke in Chapter 37, he does not show any sign of fatigue or stress after stopping before the final step.

But in chapter 52 when he performs the full Front Lotus against Dosu, he is fatigued and strained after completing the final step.
 
Damage3245 said:
@TheFinalOrder; what I'm saying is that while Sasuke copied the movements (kicking an opponent from underneath to knock them into the air), he did not copy the speed at which Rock Leee could do it.
Sure, Sasuke probably attacked faster than he normally does because he was using a different fighting style, but we need more evidence to say that he just increased his speed five times.

So far as I know, Sasuke has never been listed as a user of the Eight Gates in any official material.

EDIT: To do the entire Front Lotus would require the First Gate (since the main part of is the high-speed pile driver into the ground) but Sasuke doesn't go that far. He only performs the setup for it.
Click to expand...
Again, speed is not a factor in utilizing Front Lotus. Sasuke doesn't have to do be as fast as Lee to use it. The final part is no higher priority than the first two.

  • Kick Up
  • Get Behind
  • Spinning Piledrive
All three make the Front Lotus. You say this isn't enough proof?

  • Gai says Front Lotus Opens the First Gate
  • Gai snd Kakashi state Front Lotus put tremendous Strain on the Users Body, leaving them hurt and fatigued.
  • Sasuke demonstrates the same drawbacks as Rock Lee does after preforming the Lions Barrage, which copies the first two parts of FL. Worse considering his body isn't as conditioned and you can see his muscles spasming across his body.
Tell me, what other proof may be necessary and I'll condede.
 
@TFO; if you're not arguing that Sasuke is as fast as Lee when he does his combo move, what exactly are you arguing for?

Sasuke mimicked part of the Front Lotus to invent his Lion Combo.

He did not perform the full Front Lotus, so there is no reason to think that he opened the First Gate.

I also posted up above how Rock Lee performing the setup for the Front Lotus does not fatigue or strain him.

The only moves that Sasuke copied off of him were the setup moves.
 
Damage3245 said:
@TFO; if you're not arguing that Sasuke is as fast as Lee when he does his combo move, what exactly are you arguing for?
Sasuke mimicked part of the Front Lotus to invent his Lion Combo.

He did not perform the full Front Lotus, so there is no reason to think that he opened the First Gate.

I also posted up above how Rock Lee performing the setup for the Front Lotus does not fatigue or strain him.

The only moves that Sasuke copied off of him were the setup moves.
Click to expand...
1.) I am Arguing that when doing LB, Sasuke is using the First Gate. Sasuke doesn't have to be as Fast, Base to Bade to use it. Sasuke when doing LB would make his as fas as Lee in FL, even with the amp.

2.) You're correct, he did Mimic part of the FL, which is why I'm arging that Sasuke, when using LB is under the affects of The First Gate.

3.)Except that not true. He didn't have to mimic the entire thing to be utilizing First Gate. This goes back to you implying the 3rd Sequence is where the First Gate Opens. This is not true because this it implies the first two are not apart of FL. Even if you wanted to make that claim, The First Gate would have to be open prior to the 3rd Sequence which means the Set up portion opens the First Gate to facilitate the 3rd Sequence.

4.)I don't remember you posting anything like that for Rock Lee, but I'll check again. (NVM: I See it. That doesn't debunk this though. There is no difference in the Set Up and the 3rd Sequence in regards to being apart of the same technique, Front Lotus. All this proves is Sasuke gets wiped out from just the Set Up Portion of FL in addition to his added part than Lee completing his, which can be chalked up to not being as physically conditioned as Lee)

5.)If the Set Up Moves themselves make Sasuke Demonstrated the stated affects of FL, that lets you the First Gate was opened. You still have not addressed Saauke demonstrating the stated affects of usage of the FL.

At this rate, there is more evidence supporting my argument than not. Your main arguments (Imho) center around what's discussed in 3 and 4. You're not outright saying it, but you're strongly implying there is some "meaningful" difference between the set up and 3rd Sequence in being part of the Front Lotus when there is nothing to support that stance. In addition to this, in every instance of use, Lee has been shown to become significantly faster upon using just the set up, which is further Proof the First Gate opens upon the kick launching the opponent upwards.
 
@TFO; Sasuke was under other pressures at the time he did the Lion Combo. He was having his chakra drained and under stress from the Curse Seal which he had to forcibly suppress.

How do you explain that Sasuke has never been listed as a user of the Eight Gates in any official material, no character has stated that Sasuke can open the Eight Gates, and no point later in the series did Sasuke activate the Eight Gates ever again?

The simplest explanation is this; Sasuke copied the movements (the fighting style), but not the Eight Gates (the multiplier).

In chapter 68, Kakashi even states that Sasuke memorized the moves that Rock Lee used, he makes no mention of him copying how to activate the First Gate.

I will check what the databook says for it.
 
Here is the databook entry for it:

Exclusive to Sasuke, proud recipient of the Uchiha blood, this ultra-fast combo attack requires an advanced physical condition and a certain knack for it. The opponent is tossed into the air and shadowed with Shadow of the Dancing Leaf. Upon inflicting a blow, one takes advantage of said opponent's counterattack to spin around and rise again for further assaults. Since the fall is increased in velocity with each blow, the damage when one is eventually struck to the ground is unconceivable.

The first blow is parried. But the lion bares his fangs, one after another…!

The strength from the assaults generate a high-speed fall, that strikes together with the final blow!!

The only requirement for Sasuke's combo move is an advanced physical condition. No mention of needing to open the Eight Gates.

And this is what the databook says for the move that Lee does prior to the Front Lotus:

A jutsu where one follows the opponent, closely matching their body's movement, just like a leaf that dances in the air is followed by its shadow. This move by itself is harmless, but it is usable as a stepping stone for a great many powerful jutsu like Front Lotus and so forth. That said, it also has a rather high degree of difficulty, and by the looks of things, those among the genin-class who can manage a flawless use of this high-grade taijutsu would be the likes of Lee, Sasuke or Neji.

At that point, Lee physically restrains the opponent by binding them and switch to Front Lotus!

So from the looks of it, the actual Front Lotus technique is the spinning piledriver as I thought.
 
Damage3245 said:
Here is the databook entry for it:
Exclusive to Sasuke, proud recipient of the Uchiha blood, this ultra-fast combo attack requires an advanced physical condition and a certain knack for it. The opponent is tossed into the air and shadowed with Shadow of the Dancing Leaf. Upon inflicting a blow, one takes advantage of said opponent's counterattack to spin around and rise again for further assaults. Since the fall is increased in velocity with each blow, the damage when one is eventually struck to the ground is unconceivable.

The first blow is parried. But the lion bares his fangs, one after another…!

The strength from the assaults generate a high-speed fall, that strikes together with the final blow!!

The only requirement for Sasuke's combo move is an advanced physical condition. No mention of needing to open the Eight Gates.

And this is what the databook says for the move that Lee does prior to the Front Lotus:

A jutsu where one follows the opponent, closely matching their body's movement, just like a leaf that dances in the air is followed by its shadow. This move by itself is harmless, but it is usable as a stepping stone for a great many powerful jutsu like Front Lotus and so forth. That said, it also has a rather high degree of difficulty, and by the looks of things, those among the genin-class who can manage a flawless use of this high-grade taijutsu would be the likes of Lee, Sasuke or Neji.

At that point, Lee physically restrains the opponent by binding them and switch to Front Lotus!

So from the looks of it, the actual Front Lotus technique is the spinning piledriver as I thought.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I couldn't find the DB translations for either. Where did you get them from? (But note, don't put stock in the DB not mentioning "Users" of a Jutsu. Same case for Perfect Susanoo, Human Path, FTG, etc )

Edit: For the Record, I never Said Sasuke copied how to open the first gate. Just that the Front Lotus Automatically Opens the First Gate.
 
@TFO; websites like this have the databook translations. Naruto Forums also has threads on them.
 
Thanks.

I'll begin making the changes tonight.

EDIT: Most of the way through now. Will change the rest in the morning.
 
@AstralKing7; did Shikamaru actually do anything in that fight that makes him equal to Tayuya in speed?

I remember a large part of it was just him keeping her restrained.
 
No lol. Shikamaru is pretty much equal to her tbh. Even in a genjutsu he was able to attack tayuya at close range and she started her attack first before he did.

He was also able to put her in shadow stitching jutsu right before she noticed
 
I remember he managed to surprise punch her when she thought he was immobilized, but his other attacks were just accomplishments in stealth rather than speed it seems to me.

Ah well, I'll update him to Hypersonic+ anyway.
 
Shikamaru was able to react to her and keep up with her Summons, so I think it is Justified. I'll reread the feat for general feats.
 
Only characters I've got left to update is Naruto's, and Sasuke's Part 1 profiles.

For Sasuke, I think that he should have another key so that his profile will be:

Land of Waves | Chuunin Exam | Konoha Crush | Curse Seal 1 | Curse Seal 2

I've got the speed ratings prepared for this, but I'm not 100% sure about the rest of his ratings.

Or alternatively it would go like this:

Land of Waves | Chuunin Exam | Konoha Crush | Sasuke Retrieval
 
I think the later is better (Also, I know this is off tpoic, but Sasuke's strength calc for Part 1 was never Evaluated. Could you take a look at it?)
 
Alright, Sasuke's ratings will probably be:


Attack Potency: City Block level (Created a crater with a Fireball) | City Block level (Knocked out a giant bear) | Small Town level+ (Comparable to Naruto, and could physically damage him) | At least Small Town level+, Town level with CS1 and CS2 (Should be comparable to Choji Akimichi, as the Curse Mark of Heaven is far superior to the Sound Four's. Should at least be comparable to CS1 Kimimaro)

Speed: Supersonic (Faster than Naruto) | Supersonic, likely higher with CS1 (Able to dodge Zaku's supersonic blast while carrying Naruto and Sakura) | Hypersonic+ (Comparable to Rock Lee without his weights) | At least Hypersonic+, higher with CS1 and CS2 (Much faster than before)

Lifting Strength: At least Class 10 (Stronger than Sakura, who could lift giant tree trunks with ease) | At least Class 10 | Class G | Class G

Striking Strength: City Block Class (Forced Haku to dodge his kick) | City Block Class (Knocked out a giant bear) | Small Town Class (Harmed Naruto and sent him flying with a punch on two occasions) | At least Small Town Class, Town Class with CS1 and CS2

Durability City Block level | City Block level | Small Town level+ | At least Small Town level+, Town level with CS1 and CS2 (Withstood being thrown into a mountain side by Naruto under Kurama's influence, and tanked a punch from him without any damage)

Land of Waves | Chuunin Exam | Konoha Crush | Sasuke Retrieval

This isn't perfect, but this is what it should be updated to in the meantime until more improvements can be made later on.

Anyone agree with this for Sasuke?
 
I agree for the most part, I just think it should be, "Higher with Sharingan and CS1" and "Higher with Sharingan, CS1 & CS2", respectively.

Edit: Including the first stat. It should have, "Higher w/ Sharingan" as Base Sasuke without Sharingan is faster than Naruto still.
 
2T sasuke perception speed is MHS

  • was also able to perceived Forward Lotus but his body was slow to take any action
kn0 speed is MHS

  • 2T sasuke could not not keepup with KN0 but 3T ca
3T sasuke reaction speed is MHS

  • can react to kn0
kn1 should have MHS with chakra arms

  • cuz sasuke couldnt see his chakra arms movment
so CS2 and kn1 speed should be MHS
 
@Wrath of Itachi; yes, the OBD version uses the wrong formula and assumptions that don't make sense.

@Omimi; the Forward Lotus that Rock Lee used on Sasuke was not MHS, he was restricted in speed by his weights.

Taking TFO's suggestions into account I will update Sasuke's profile. Any additional changes should be handled separately.
 
lee without weights faster then gaara's sand speed 20 mach

but lee with weights still equal to gaara's sand speed so that doesn't matter

his still MHS
 
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