Naruto Part 1 Speed Calcs & Ratings

[Damage3245]

@Jvando; while that makes sense, part of it seems a bit contradictory.

Guy's words in the first panel suggest that overriding the safety feature in the brain gives the user access to all of his Chakra.

But the Kakashi's words in the 3rd image suggest that all eight of the Eight Gates act as limiters on the amount of chakra that the user can wield.

 

[Jvando]

I think what Omimi is getting at is that's Rock Lee wasn't sure he would be able to beat Neji unless he used the Fifth Gate. What this means is that already considered the 1st gate minimum to not he enough to fight against Neji.

Considering that they are teammates and considering that they've no doubt gone on dozens of missions together, Lee should have ample knowledge on Neji's capabilities. Enough where he can say that if he doesn't use this amount of power, he won't be able to win.

This is Supported by the fact that Neji can keep up with Lee with his Byakugan so at least we know that he can see Lee's movements

 

[Jvando]

@Jvando; while that makes sense, part of it seems a bit contradictory.

Guy's words in the first panel suggest that overriding the safety feature in the brain gives the user access to all of his Chakra.

But the Kakashi's words in the 3rd image suggest that all eight of the Eight Gates act as limiters on the amount of chakra that the user can wield.

If you really want to go that route then that would be suggesting that only by opening all 8 gates removing all "limiters" would the user get that 5x boost...that's not even close to being true.

Also, we're talking about the limits set by the brain on the muscles, the same limits that Kaimon removes. The Data book isn't > than the manga. We've been spoon fed the information in the primary source, let's not try to override what primary canon tells us with what secondary canon tells us

 

[Omimi]

"we don't have explicit confirmation that Rock Lee actually used the Eight Gates against Neji in sparring. It's just implied. "

we dont need that

guy's stetement is more then enough

"Baki doesn't have any significant speed feats from what I can tell. Just being a Jonin doesn't grant you a certain level of speed without evidence. "

sigh.......

Baki fought Special Jōnin Hayate Gekkō

Chünin like Izumo Kamizuki and Kotetsu Hagane fought Hidan

now i would say even top tier Chünin is far above 1st gate genin lee

Special Jōnin/Jōnin >>>> top tier Chünin>>>>>>>>>1st gate genin lee

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi, characters that depend on scaling from Shippuden should be discussed afterwards.

First let's just get settled all the characters that can be scaled from Part 1 feats.

 

[Omimi]

Baki fought Special Jōnin Hayate Gekkō in part one

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi, and Hayate gets his speed rating from events in Shippuden.

 

[Omimi]

I think what Omimi is getting at is that's Rock Lee wasn't sure he would be able to beat Neji unless he used the Fifth Gate. What this means is that already considered the 1st gate minimum to not he enough to fight against Neji.
Considering that they are teammates and considering that they've no doubt gone on dozens of missions together, Lee should have ample knowledge on Neji's capabilities. Enough where he can say that if he doesn't use this amount of power, he won't be able to win.

This is Supported by the fact that Neji can keep up with Lee with his Byakugan so at least we know that he can see Lee's movements

i am now talking abot guy's stetement


Damage said: From what I can tell, the translation is something like "The answer to take Neji down is that high-speed combination"


which mean fan translation is correct one and viz is wrong

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi, and Hayate gets his speed rating from events in Shippuden.

no he dont

that Hayate died in part one

some Special Jōnin/Jōnin has feats in part 1

which put them far above MHS lee

1.Anko Mitarashi fought oro

and oro>kakashi

2.Kurenai react to itachi etc

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi, I don't think you get what I mean. You say that Hayate has a certain level of speed because he's a special Jonin, and right now the basis for Jonin speed comes from Shippuden.


As a side note, there's implications that Neji has never seen Rock Lee while he has the 3rd Gate and 4th Gate active.

I think we don't have enough direct evidence to say he definitely beat Rock Lee while he had any Gates active.

 

[Jvando]

Also, before this idea that you need up to the 3rd Gate to get the 5x boost festers...







These are the sequence of events, in order, that occure from when Lee has his flashback involving Guy to when he uses the Forward Lotus-the technique that Guy tells him not to use and the same one Guy explains how it allows you to use 5x of your base str and speed


This is what Kakashi states.

It only opens the First gate meaning that the First Gate Is what is all that is needed for the 5x boost. We are spoon fed this information

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Omimi

What're you talking about? You're claiming Viz is wrong based on what?

 

[AstralKing7]

@Omimi, I don't think you get what I mean. You say that Hayate has a certain level of speed because he's a special Jonin, and right now the basis for Jonin speed comes from Shippuden.


As a side note, there's implications that Neji has never seen Rock Lee while he has the 3rd Gate and 4th Gate active.

I think we don't have enough direct evidence to say he definitely beat Rock Lee while he had any Gates active.

Damage....we're not talking about who would win a fight man. That's not the point. It's about Neji perceiving his speed which he did with the byakugan. It's not about who wins the fight. Guy even said himself that Neji can't defend against 5th gate not dodge it or perceive it which he did in the manga and anime with the byakugan

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi, I don't think you get what I mean. You say that Hayate has a certain level of speed because he's a special Jonin, and right now the basis for Jonin speed comes from Shippuden.

As a side note, there's implications that Neji has never seen Rock Lee while he has the 3rd Gate and 4th Gate active.

I think we don't have enough direct evidence to say he definitely beat Rock Lee while he had any Gates active.

u missed my edit

some Special Jōnin/Jōnin has feats in part 1

which put them far above MHS lee

1.Anko Mitarashi fought oro

and oro>kakashi

2.Kurenai react to itachi etc

tenten even said Neji>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all genin

also Neji and tenten saw and know about 1st Gate Rock Lee

and why are u keep saying bold

when we have guy saying this


guy said thay 5th gate was to beat neji


this is enough to scale neji above 1st gate lee

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; At best I feel that we could say that Neji is at least superior to base Rock Lee, and is likely higher. I don't think there is enough to scale him to the full MHS rating.

@AstralKing7; are you sure you're only talking about Perception Speed and not Combat Speed? Because Omimi seems to be advocating for Combat Speed from what I can tell.

 

[AstralKing7]

Imo it's not enough evidence to support combat speed right now. I'd have to read through the Sasuke retrieval arc but Neji should have perception if not anything else.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay, I think that Perception Speed for him would be fine to scale.

 

[Omimi]

@Damage3245

u can feel what ever u want

your feelling is not above evidence

and we really don't need what u think when we have manga 'evidence'

now u are saying manga evidence become my opini( Because Omimi seems to be advocating for Combat Speed from what I can tell. )

stop lying

manga says 5th gate is need to beat neji

thats it

just stop pushing your opinion over manga

we are not writing fanfic here

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; that's not the same thing as saying Neji = Rock Lee's speed in 1st Gate.

Neji's fighting style revolves around slowing his opponent down with chakra and blasting them back with rotation. And crippling them via targeting their pressure points.

This page demonstrates what I mean. At best Neji simply needs reactions to deal with Rock Lee, not equal combat speed.

Don't try and high-road me about evidence when I'm stating there isn't enough explicit evidence, what you're doing is making inferences from certain panels.

Omimi, write your posts more cohesively and with less insults and I'll be more inclined to take you seriously.

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi; that's the same thing as saying Neji>>4th gate>>3ed gate>>>>>2nd gate>>>>>in 1st Gate.

Don't try and high-road me about evidence

stop that BS

u are a liar for saying that was my opinion even thou it was a statemeant in the manga from guy

I'm stating there isn't enough explicit evidence, what you're doing is making inferences from certain panels.

no thats more then enough evidence

what you're doing is giving your opinion

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; when did I lie?

 

[Omimi]

u are a liar for saying that was my opinion even thou it was a statemeant in the manga from guy

 

[Damage3245]

u are a liar for saying that was my opinion even thou it was a statemeant in the manga from guy

What are you talking about? I didn't say that was your opinion, I said that was what you were arguing for.

Are you saying that you don't think Neji should scale to him in Combat Speed?

 

[Omimi]

@AstralKing7; are you sure you're only talking about Perception Speed and not Combat Speed? Because Omimi seems to be advocating for Combat Speed from what I can tell.


then what is this

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi... You are advocating for Neji to scale in Combat Speed based on Guy's statement, aren't you? How is that a lie?

 

[Omimi]

i am not advocating anything

guys statement support/put neji above 4th gate lee let alone 1st gate

so hows that beome me advocating it

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; Me saying that you're advocating it does not mean I'm saying it is just your opinion. I'm saying that's your side of the argument.

My side of the argument is that Guy's statement does not necessarily make Neji faster than 1st Gate Lee, certainly not faster than 4th Gate Lee. That's what I am advocating for.

If you can understand that, I'll kindly ask you that you withdraw your insult of calling me a liar, thanks.

 

[Omimi]

when did i insult u

if anything u insulted me

advocating  mean publicly recommend or support

Guy's statement support Neji is fast enough to survive upto 4th gate

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; when you said I was saying "BS" and you called me a liar.

Repeating yourself doesn't make your interpretation any more true.

 

[Omimi]

calling manga statement as my advocating it was your fult

thats why i said BS


Repeating yourself doesn't make your interpretation any more true.

is this for me or for u ?

u are the one who Repeating something nonstop

u fail to gave any 0 evidence so why we should take your word above manga

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; You're being ridiculous now.

I'll address the point about why I don't think your line of reasoning works.

• Might Guy is specifically referring to the Reverse Lotus as what is needed to beat Neji. Backed up by Rock Lee saying he was saving the "move" to use against Neji.

• The Reverse Lotus is a technique that only requires the user to activate at least three out of the Eight Gates.

• Neji is shocked upon seeing Rock Lee activate the 3rd Gate. It seems likely he wouldn't have seen him before like this.

• After watching Rock Lee batter around Gaara in the air, Neji is shocked once more at him.

Saying that Neji is faster than Rock Lee when he's using the 3rd or 4th Gate is definitely baseless.

 

[Omimi]

sigh.......

i dont care anymore

i will let other handle this how

Guy's statement suggest Neji is fast enough to survive upto 4th gate

 

[Jvando]

@Damage,

What about saying Neji is faster than Rock Lee when he's using the first Gate?

 

[Wokistan]

Omimi, please address his arguments as opposed to trying to address him and claim he is a liar, it's not generally good to assume malice as opposed to just a misunderstanding. Fine to think someone's wrong but you gotta stay civil man

 

[Damage3245]

@Jvando; since we've never seen them fight on-screen, I don't think we can say he's definitely faster than him.

I explained up above how Neji's fighting style could counter Rock Lee even if he was faster than him.

I think that this rating should be enough to cover it:

Speed: At least Hypersonic+, possibly higher (Defeated Rock Lee in sparring matches several times) with MHS perception speed (Able to keep track of Rock Lee during his against Gaara)

 

[Omimi]

Saying that Neji is faster than Rock Lee when he's using the 3rd or 4th Gate is definitely baseless.

no its notbaseless.

reason guy made his statement when 5th gate lee were using Reverse Lotus not 3rd or 4th Gate Reverse Lotus

 

[Damage3245]

@Omimi; Guy made the statement about the Reverse Lotus.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Falling From Parachute ...

I think "Hypersonic +, likely MHS" would be a little more interesting.
Since it is extremely likely that Lee used at least the First Gate against Neji, I think a "likely" would be fair and of a good size.

But I'm fine with Damage's alternative.

 

[Omimi]

@Omimi; Guy made the statement about the Reverse Lotus.

again guy made his statement when 5th gate lee were using Reverse Lotus

Reverse Lotus >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>front Lotus MHS

 

[AstralKing7]

Yeah I agree with Damage or Most powerful. Either one is fine to me