Naruto Part 1 Speed Calcs & Ratings

[Jvando]

Yeah I agree with Damage or Most powerful. Either one is fine to me

Likewise. Either one is fine

 

[Damage3245]

Okay, thanks for the comments guys.

I'll update the list of proposed ratings and have it posted here it later. Then we just need to refine down the last unknown variables.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I think MP suggestion makes more sense. The evidence seems to imply that Neji is at least comparable to Lee's first gate.

 

[Damage3245]

I think MP suggestion makes more sense. The evidence seems to imply that Neji is at least comparable to Lee's first gate.

I think it's possible that he could fight him while Lee was using the 1st Gate, but because of Neji's fighting style, I don't think he has to be as fast as him.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

If Lee in first gate is MHS and Neji is only HS, it doesnt matter how good his fighting style is against Lee, he will get blitzed. That's why having MHS perception does t make sense either, since Neji wouldnt be able to react to lee.

 

[Damage3245]

@Wrath of Itachi, so in other words he just needs MHS reactions?

 

[Jvando]

@Wrath of Itachi, so in other words he just needs MHS reactions?

I think that's what he's getting at

 

[AstralKing7]

WOI also makes sense

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

I think he should be MHS all around, but that seems like a good compromise. However, I feel like he would just end up being MHS through scaling.

 

[Damage3245]

So perhaps:

Hypersonic+ with likely Massively Hypersonic reactions for Neji?

For the Chunin Exams Arc key, at least.

 

[Mindovin]

Lee states he reserved Reverse Lotus to use on Neji which is requires to opening at least 3rd Gate.

Neji's fighting style requires him to move his entire hand/arm to perform so he must be as fast as his oppenent otherwise he can't touch them.

 

[Damage3245]

@Mindovin; Neji's fighting style also depends on stopping his opponent in their tracks as they attack, so he doesn't have to be as Rock Lee to hit him.

I think that Hypersonic+ with likely Massively Hypersonic reactions is the best compromise.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

So perhaps:

Hypersonic+ with likely Massively Hypersonic reactions for Neji?

For the Chunin Exams Arc key, at least.

I prefer if he was MHS all around, but i suppose this seems like a good compromise.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Neji isn't as fast Gated Lee. He's around Weightless Lee's speed, this is illustrated by his fight with Kidomaru, who could react to his combat Speed.

• Hypersonic+ with Likely MHS reactions is accurate.

 

[MostPowerfull]

I believe that the reaction alone would not be exactly the best.

We see with Sasuke vs Lee himself, that just having the reaction and not fighting it literally makes you see, but not defend yourself. And Lee wasn't even 5x faster than Sasuke. I don't think Neji could do something to Lee if he were MHS while he remains Hypersonic +. Remembering that the Sharingan for reaction, is a little better than Byakugan.
Since Neji's style needs him to move his arms to defend himself against Lee's attacks while attacking him at the same time, I think it would sound better in combat speed.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I believe that the reaction alone would not be exactly the best.
We see with Sasuke vs Lee himself, that just having the reaction and not fighting it literally makes you see, but not defend yourself.
Since Neji's style needs him to move his arms to defend himself against Lee's attacks while attacking him at the same time, I think it would sound better in combat speed.

The issue with this is, Sasuke could Percieve Lee, he couldn't react fast enough. So this isn't really accurate in that regard.

• Perception Speed =/= Reactions Speed =/= Combat Speed

The implications suggest Neji can at least react to Gated 1 lee, and he is shown percieving Higher Gates.

 

[Mindovin]

@Damage

Can you elaborate stopping his opponent in their tracks as they attack?

He must be otherwise he can't touch his opponents which nearly all of his moves of all about (in P1).

He is faster than 2nd Gate Lee but not 3rd Gate(most likely as I don't know with which Gate Lee intented to use Reverse Lotus on Neji).

 

[Jvando]

The implications suggest Neji can at least react to Gated 1 lee, and he is shown percieving Higher Gates.

I agree with this pretty much.

 

[MostPowerfull]

I find it a little strange since perception is part of the complete reaction set. But it seems to treat them as different, so I'm fine.

Anyway, as I said, I'm fine with Damage's alternative.

 

[Damage3245]

Here is the full list of proposed speed ratings.

Can anyone let me know if I've missed a character?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Change "with Eight Gates" for Gates and add a higher or faster with upper Gates

 

[MostPowerfull]

I think "likely MHS" for Naruto KN1 and Sasuke CS2 is a good idea. I really don't see them as slower than Lee 1st Gate (in fact, I believe that without the upper gates, Lee wouldn't even scratch them).

I'm sure calculations where to a weapon involved, it must also be counted. So, I think Temari should be just "Hypersonic +".

Anyway, I'm fine with Damage's proposals.

 

[AstralKing7]

I agree naruot and Sasuke should definitely be MHS in some form. Sasuke's body in Base was physically becoming stronger as well because of the curse mark stated by in after the chunin exams arc.

His base form(retrieval arc)> chunin exams

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; If I recall correctly that was in reference to him getting better able to use the Curse Mark's power. I think he said something about that in the Valley of the End.

But the feats they have don't make them MHS in the Valley of the End, even if they're stronger to an unknown degree than they were before.

 

[AstralKing7]

ALso Shikamaru should scale to Hypersonic just like the rest of them. Hinata should also scale to Neji in taijutsu

 

[Jvando]

@AstralKing7; If I recall correctly that was in reference to him getting better able to use the Curse Mark's power. I think he said something about that in the Valley of the End.

But the feats they have don't make them MHS in the Valley of the End, even if they're stronger to an unknown degree than they were before.

We shouldn't really speculate too much as to what their speed shouls be because, as you said, they are an unknown degree stronger than before. leave it at Hypersonic+ likely higher Or just Hypersonic+

 

[MostPowerfull]

In fact, it is almost absolutely certain that Naruto KN1 and Sasuke CS2 are MHS. They are definitely superior to Lee 1st Gate in any attribute.

I think "likely MHS" is work. But, I'm fine with any decision.

 

[Damage3245]

@MostPowerfull; if that was backed up by some kind of statement or feat, it'd be better.

@AstralKing; Neji is leagues above Hinata as a fighter.

 

[AstralKing7]

Also Sasuke should have higher with sharingan just like his Shippuden profile. He can react to things faster.

 

[AstralKing7]

@MostPowerfull; if that was backed up by some kind of statement or feat, it'd be better.

@AstralKing; Neji is leagues above Hinata as a fighter.

Has nothing to do with her speed. Hinata scales straight to Neji. Neji has better taijutsu but Hinata still scales to him unless you have proof that she doesnt

 

[Jvando]

But wasn't Neji toying with her?

 

[Damage3245]

But wasn't Neji toying with her?

Exactly. Neji completely dominates her throughout the entire fight and holds the advantage from the beginning. The only reason it lasts as long as it does is Hinata's persistence.

 

[MostPowerfull]

Well ... Neji probably has MHS reactions.

And as I recall, Neji could barely keep up with Kidoumaro CS2's arrows and I even remember something like Naruto KN0 managing to escape Neji's perception, but I don't know if this was just Anime scenes or whatever.. I'm pretty sure that would be enough to make Naruto and Sasuke practically MHS via Lee's escalation into his 1st Gate and being superior to Neji.

But as I said, I'm fine with the current proposals.

 

[AstralKing7]

Bro are u guys getting skills mixed up with speed? Skills can completely close the gap in a fight with two people who have the same speed. Yeah he toyed with her because he had better skills. She still scales to him in speed. Neji never blitzed her

 

[AstralKing7]

Also btw the Sasuke statement about his body was that his base form was comparable to when he was influenced by the curse seal. One of the main reasons why Sasuke entered that sealing pot was for strength

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7, can you post scans for that? I'm pretty sure I'm remembering his statement differently.

Neji regularly hit Hinata faster than she could react.

There is not enough evidence putting her on the same level as Neji and Rock Lee without his weights.

 

[AstralKing7]

Hinata manages too hit Neji with chakra before he could dodge completely. Lee even states it takes only a graze for it to work. Hinata has Hypersonic combat speed

 

[AstralKing7]

His base is the same as when he is using the curse seal back in the chunin exams or the arc where he crossed paths with Itachi

 

[Damage3245]

@AstralKing7; this is what the official translation of that says. From what I can tell Sasuke's speed doesn't actually get much higher, but his Precog / predictions allow him to keep up with Naruto by seeing what he does before he does it (aimdodging, essentially).

I'm still firmly against Hinata scaling to Neji. She definitely isn't his equal in that fight in any way.

Hinata didn't even realize that from the very beginning she was losing to Neji.

 

[AstralKing7]

Damage....don't tell me u liek everyone else didn't read the pre cog page right?? Just because you have pre cog or analytical prediction doesn't mean you can react without the speed. Sasuke is literally implying that his base form is stronger because of the curse mark physically. Also it's not aim dodging lol. Naruto is constantly moving in different patterns. That's not aim dodging and wasn't even the point I was looking for bro.

Hinata isn't equal to him in skills obviously.