Naruto: Molecular Manipulation for the TSB

[AstralKing7]

After reading through the page for Matter Manipulation i realized that the TSB is ranked wrong. The discription for molecular manipulation doesn't meet list anything that TSB has shown. Example; TSB has been shown to change exsisting elements but its listed under molecular manipulation even tho it says thats not possible on that level. On the other hand TSB meets all the requirements for Atomic manipulation. Whats funny is that someone told me that TSB was only ranked at molecular manipulation because it was safer. How is that possible when it has shown all effects of Atomic manipulation. What i want to know is how was the idea to even consider it molecular manipulation accepeted??? Like i said it has shown all effects of Atomic manipulation. I'm considered the erasure part of the TSB because we consider it hyperbole. Down below i will list all the requirements that TSB and the examples of Atomic Manipulation.

Transmutation: TSB has literally been used to create a cage for Hinata, and some sort of hovering stand for Toneri when he captured Hinata

Destruction: TSB has been shown to destroy things to point where they can not regrow even with mid high Regenerationn. Not only can it destroy phyiscal things but has the same effect of pure energy, as show when Obito put a hole right through Sasuke's susanno hand.

Creation: TSB has also been able to turn itself into anything as; a platform for sasuke to stand on, a staffs and shield with different shapes and sizes for Naruto.Madara, and Obito. If this isnt enough Obito was able to create Hagaromo's sword which was said to have to ability to create. Obito has also shown the ability to create barriers with this as well. That isnt the only creation statement from TSB; Kaguya's ESTB was said to recreate her dimension, you guys can say planet if you want to it doesnt matter. Not only is that it but they are also able to heal the users with them as shown when Obito himself.

Changing exsisting elements: Toneri has been shown multiple times to be able to turn his TSB into pure energy even tho the TSB wasnt originally in the form of energy. He has shown to be able to constantly keep them in a form of energy as proven when he had one inside of Hinata and naruto pulled it out and was shown to still have retained its energy form. Obito's TSB has also been able to transform into pure energy and explode multiple times and also used to change it from a spheres to a Barrier.

More than just simple molecular manipulation which Onoki has as stated by Hiruzen http://*********.com/Manga/Naruto/Chapter-639?id=377789#8

The only thing it doesnt meet is the ability to be able to effect radioactive decay in atoms, well i dont know a lot about that so thats why i dont know if it has that ability or not.

TSB should be changed to Atomic manipulation for obvious reasons shown and with not the consideration of the statements about it have the ability to erase.

 

[Huesito88]

That's pretty big

 

[AstralKing7]

fixed lol i dont know how that happened.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Okay, this is some massive extrapolation. There are quite a few things wrong with this, and we'll address them point by point.

• TSBs can affect elements: No. Well, yes and no. There is no mention of any element on the periodic table when it comes to Naruto. It's painfully obvious that it's referring to fire, water, earth, wind, etc.

• Transmutation: That's not transmutation. Not by any sense of the word. The TSBs turn into some other form. From what you're providing, they didn't turn something else into a cage, which would be grounds for consideration. They became the other things. The platforms and the cage. Hell, I can name shapeshifters that can do that. This is literally just energy manipulation.

• Destruction: [citation needed]. Also, it's probably best to address this now, pretty much all of this being physical, easily tangible energy (i.e.: Susanoo) renders a whole lot of points moot. Also, even with actual atomic manipulators, take Seiya, if he atomizes someone's arm, it'll grow back with the same regen it takes for severing the arm, as it's still Regenerationn of the arm. Negating regen isn't a showing for atomization unless it was full-body, and even then, it's probably still gonna be molecular.

• Creation: Same situation as transmutation, and even then, it wouldn't be a showing. Once again, they don't do this to outside things but themselves. Hagoromo's sword sounds vague af, and would still not be grounds for matter manipulation. Not to mention you haven't provided information that Obito's recreation of the sword has the same abilities of the original. Kaguya thing, more information. The healing thing...is just that.

• Changing other elements: See the original point. Prove to me that it's talking about stuff like carbon, nitrogen, lithium, etc. rather than fire, water, etc. Because all of Naruto uses the latter. And energy isn't an element, nor is detonation anything to glance twice at.

• More than just simple molecular manipulation: ...what? Literally nothing you said came across that scan you mentioned.

In summation, a lot of this is extrapolating separate abilities. TSBs have never been shown to create nor transmute matter, and have only been shown to do it to themselves. Also, iirc, TSBs wouldn't even be matter manipulation if it weren't for the fact that they were superior to that dust release.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I'm also go throw this in about the Transmutation point. It blatantly ignores the concept of Shape Transformation, which is one of the two major advanced forms of chakra control that allows ninja to modify their techniques. It's that form of transformation that allows a Chidori to become a Chidori Sharp Spear or Chidori Senbo for example.

Unless, you can prove that say the TSB that formed the cage actually became composed of metal and isn't just a TSB in the form of a cage, then that's not Transmutation and is just Shape Transformation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Just one thing Cal.

As someone who made the thread about TSB's getting matter manipulation long ago in the first place , it's definitely not just energy manipulation. Even TheMightyRegulator when he was here at that time agreed with it being transmutation.

 

[Omimi]

"Changing other elements : See the original point. Prove to me that it's talking about stuff like carbon, nitrogen, lithium, etc. rather than fire, water, etc. Because all of Naruto uses the latter. And energy isn't an element, nor is detonation anything to glance twice at "


naruto change tsb into lightning conductor

does bold fall under elements too ?@cal

 

[Rocker1189]

It literally changed colour and grew in size for the cage it is obviously not just energy manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask Kepekley23 and Burning Full Fingers to comment here.

 

[Kepekley23]

Dust Release disassembles on a near-molecular level, and the TSB is noted to far exceed it. So a more reliable benchmark for its effects would be indeed molecular deconstruction, not atomic, since there's no evidence of anything higher than that.

 

[Golden_Void]

I agree w/ Kep, also

"More than just simple molecular manipulation which Onoki has as stated by Hiruzen"

Is taking what Hiruzen is trying to explain, entirely out of context.

 

[AstralKing7]

Onoki already has molecular manipulation. Hiruzen said kekei totas or jutsus with four chakra natures doesnt even compare to TSB. Particle style uses 3 chakra natures. Im not taking it out of context. TSB was stated to be a whole different level


I agree with Kep about the molecular deconstruction tho

 

[Golden_Void]

I guess the profiles with TSBs can be changed to molecular if they aren't already and this can be closed.