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Toneri Hax Revision

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ProfessorKukui4Life

ProfessorKukui4Life

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From what Toneri did here during his fight with Naruto, he was capable of taking a single TSB and transformed it completely into a cage to hold Hinata in while they fought.

I believe it should give Toneri a sort of Transmutation or Matter Manipulation type hax.

And as a bonus, IIRC, Toneri's techniques like his Golden Wheel Rebirth Explosion was speicifically formed by Truth Seeking Balls to make the technique. If true, then it should also mean the techniques still carry the same abilities and qualities of a TSB, meaning it should also give Toneri a kind of Durability Negation/Bypass for himself and incase anyone tries to bring up Naruto not being erased by it, he was in Sage Mode + his Kurama Chakra Mode which is why TSB's wouldnt be able to erase him via Nature Energy.

Agree or any issues with this?
 
I don't know about transmutation but matter manipulation is ok I think. Transmutation is transforming living beings into inanimate object or other creature.. Vados has matter manipulation but not transmutation
 
Joseph619 said:
I don't know about transmutation but matter manipulation is ok I think. Transmutation is transforming living beings into inanimate object or other creature.. Vados has matter manipulation but not Transmutation
Click to expand...
Kk then Matter Manipulation. My bad I didnt know Transmutation was defined as that

Also my bad I edited the post a bit lol
 
I don't think so, that's just him controlling his tsb, not actually rearranging its molecular/atomic structure, or changing one type of matter/atom into another, which are what matter Manipulation and transmutation require respectively
 
How is it controlling his TSB? He changed it completely into a cage, which should definitely have a totally unique atomic structure to it from a TSB. Unless am I missing something?
 
Matter manipulation is a very basic skill in naruto, every chunin and above can manipulate water/earth etc according to their chakra nature. Toneri having it should not be a big deal I think
 
I wouldnt go THAT far but yea. A TSB should not have the same molecular structure as that of a cage or anything.

Also guys what do u think about the Bonus option?
 
Characters frequently shape TSB's into other shapes, unless he explicitly changed it into some type of metal, it should be assumed to be that, not matter manipulation.

@Joseph that's not at all what matter manipulation is. As I explained matter manipulation is directly rearranging the atomic or molecular structure of an object. Controlling an element is elemental manipulation, changing the element of chakra is energy manipulation.
 
Hmm I am not sure about durability bypass. TSB doesn't bypass durability when the user uses senjutsu (Naruto was able to punt Madara's TSB). It has some restrictions and limitations which durability bypassing moves generally don't posses (characters who are immune to durability bypass are immune to the entire mechanic itself)
 
Right but the shape TSB's take are still of the same TSB structure just in different forms like a TSB barrier or even Obito's sword

In this case, that cage Toneri made was something completely different, not baring any resemblance to a TSB. If it was something like a TSB, Hinata would have gotton erased the moment he put her in it and it wouldnt make sense for Toneri to do that to someone he wanted to marry
 
TSB are commonly known for changing into different stuff it should apply to all, and the durability thingy, didn't erase Hinata's hands when she touch the cage.
 
The problem is, the cage was still made up of the tsb/chakra, not matter, otherwise when Toneri left tenseigan mode it wouldn't have evaporated into Toneri's chakra particles. This is just the ability to create and manipulate an energy/tsb construct, not actual matter manipulation or transmutation.
 
The durability negation doesnt have anything to do with the cage

Im talking about Toneri's techniques. Like with the Golden Wheel Rebirth Explosion. The entire technique was created out of TSB's. But its not like the cage where they change completely, the attack is making an energy sword. And if the sword still maintains the TSB's atomic structure, then it should also have its nullifying hax as well, meaning Toneri should be able to bypass/negate Durability and erase the target with his attacks. The only reason Naruto wasnt hurt however was because he was in Sage Mode, which resists the TSB's effects
 
.......no. I just said the durability negating thing has nothing to do with the cage or Hinata. It has to do with Toneri's attacks
 
It means the TSB of Toneri are not as powerful as the originals, if the cage didn't had a property of them neither will the beam sword.
 
Neither the beam nor the cage has the properties of the TSB.

It's the Sage of Sixth paths chakra, the Sage mode has nothing to do with it, as Sage Mode Minato was immediately ripped to shreds.
 
Well either way I still think him being able to change a TSB completely into a cage qualifies for a Transmutation/Matter Manipulation hax or something of the latter, especially if the cage had none of the TSB properties.
 
As I said earlier, it seems more like creation of solid energy constructs, since it dissolved back into chakra once Toneri's tenseigan form was broken.
 
A bit after the 8 minute mark in the video you linked, after Naruto breaks Toneri out of his Tenseigan mode the cage just sorta dissolves into what looks like green Tenseigan chakra.
 
Besides, if it was simply an energy construct then why would Toneri need the TSB's to make it? Its been shown to create things out of chakra in Naruto and it would have more resembled Kinshiki's weapon creating out of his chakra if this was the case, no?
 
I think that TheMightyRegulator seems to make sense.
 
So we can say that Toneri can make matter out of energy (TSB). Shouldnt be that impressive since you have Mokouton, which is creating life through the use of chakra.
 
Right but if he could do that with energy alone why need the TSB? He could just use the Chakra within his own body alone to do it, right?
 
TSB has been portrayed as easy to manipulate since its introduction (remember imperfect Juubito). Dunno, but:

a) Toneri can create TSB from his own chakra in the tenseigan form.

b) He can make those TSB become actual matter.

You can argue that he cannot do it without the TSB, but then, what would be the difference? He can create them.
 
Toneri needed Naruto's chakra and the Byakugan eyes before achieving the Tenseigan eyes and the TSB. It wasn't his own chakra.
 
My bad Naruto's chakra was use to move the moon. He only needed the Byakugan. Also, is there any confirmation that those are really TSB?
 
Then what evidence do we have that they are real TSB? Did they even negated Ninjutsu? They can just be made of chakra. After all the cage made by them didn't kill Hinata who doesn't have Six Path chakra.
 
They negated Naruto's rasenshuriken as wellas multiple big bang rasengans and I've already said the cage is clearly a real cage and not simply shaped one by the TSB. He's not trying to kill her...
 
Anike4life linked to the entire fight.

Matter manipulation. Same way chakra can make paper, mud and water. Such conversions are actually pretty common in the show.
 
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