Naruto planet lvl upgrades

[The_one_you_least_expect]

So where's the concrete proof that Sasuke's TK should solidly scale to Hagoromo's TK?

Please don't bring these up:

• Hagoromo was in his deathbed when be hurled the SPCT, so Sasuke should be able to do the same feat

• Sasuke has the same eye as Hagoromo did when he hurled the SPCT, so he should be able to do the same feat

Hagromo gave sasuke his power. Your suggesting it’s somehow less then deathbed hags which has no backing. So the burden of proof is on you

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I tried to warn you that this kind of logic is hard to defend. Anyways, following. But for now:
1. Disagree
2. Undecided
3. Undecided

1. Why do you disagree on the sasuke stuff?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

So the burden of proof is on you

What the do you think Ghost Hagoromo is then? Did Hagoromo dying somehow give him more Chakra after his Death?

 

[HelloThere1089]

1. Why do you disagree on the sasuke stuff?

1. Prove that Sasuke is the one who did the feat alone.
2. Prove that it reached the same height as the moon of Earth. (I.e the feat of TK even happened.)
3. Your justification for Ghost Hagoromo > Deathbed Hagoromo? (I don't quite remember the novels tbh.)

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

What the do you think Ghost Hagoromo is then? Did Hagoromo dying somehow give him more Chakra after his Death?

no he just gave them the same power he gave asura split

1. Prove that Sasuke is the one who did the feat alone.
2. Prove that it reached the same height as the moon of Earth. (I.e the feat of TK even happened.)
3. Your justification for Ghost Hagoromo > Deathbed Hagoromo? (I don't quite remember the novels tbh.)

1. Last time I checked Naruto doesn’t have tk
2. They literally said it was almost the size of the moon while it was still growing
3. Hagromo is litterly giving them the same power he gave asura but split. There’s no reason to assume he only has his deathbed power

 

[HelloThere1089]

1. Last time I checked Naruto doesn’t have tk

I guess you should first prove the TK even happened and on the same level. Also Naruto does have TK but not for CT

2. They literally said it was almost the size of the moon while it was still growing

So? How does that prove the moon is going to be pushed off into the orbit?

3. Hagromo is litterly giving them the same power he gave asura but split. There’s no reason to assume he only has his deathbed power

Prove that he gave the same amount of power as Indra. The scan you posted only implies he's going to evenly share whatever power he currently has.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

2. They literally said it was almost the size of the moon while it was still growing

That isn't the Low 5-B TK though? That's still the 5-C+ SPCT creation, I thought you already understood that from Dao's multiple posts regarding that topic.

3. Hagromo is litterly giving them the same power he gave asura but split. There’s no reason to assume he only has his deathbed power

You understand that Hagoromo wasn't losing his own Chakra as he was dying right? His body was just giving up on him due to him extracting the Tailed Beasts and their Chakra out of his body, he's still capable of doing Jutsu using his own native pool of Chakra, and was being kept alive by the Gedo Mazo.

Similar to how Kushina was still able to create chains to subdue Kurama and create a barrier to trap Kurama and block outside interference when she had Kurama extracted from her.

Their bodies were just eventually going to die.

The Chakra Hagoromo naturally possessed as he was dying would more or less still be the same amount of Chakra he would possess as a Spirit.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I guess you should first prove the TK even happened and on the same level. Also Naruto does have TK but not for CT

So? How does that prove the moon is going to be pushed off into the orbit?

Oh mb I misread that I thought you were referring to the size of it. Looking through the chapters the only time it moves is when it’s still being sealed so I guess I’ll concede on this point

Prove that he gave the same amount of power as Indra. The scan you posted only implies he's going to evenly share whatever power he currently has.

He didn’t give Indra jack. Indra got his power via genetics. If that was the case then he shouldn’t have been able to give naruto six path senjustu much less enough power for both sasuke and Naruto to keep up with Kaguya

That isn't the Low 5-B TK though? That's still the 5-C+ SPCT creation, I thought you already understood that from Dao's multiple posts regarding that topic.

Read above

You understand that Hagoromo wasn't losing his own Chakra as he was dying right? His body was just giving up on him due to him extracting the Tailed Beasts and their Chakra out of his body, he's still capable of doing Jutsu using his own native pool of Chakra, and was being kept alive by the Gedo Mazo.

Similar to how Kushina was still able to create chains to subdue Kurama and create a barrier to trap Kurama and block outside interference when she had Kurama extracted from her.

Their bodies were just eventually going to die.

The Chakra Hagoromo naturally possessed as he was dying would more or less still be the same amount of Chakra he would possess as a Spirit.

If that was the case then he shouldn’t have had access to six path senjustu

 

[Damage3245]

I think people are overlooking the fact that there's no evidence Sasuke used telekinesis to throw the Kaguya-Chibaku Tensei into orbit.

 

[HelloThere1089]

He didn’t give Indra jack. Indra got his power via genetics. If that was the case then he shouldn’t have been able to give naruto six path senjustu much less enough power for both sasuke and Naruto to keep up with Kaguya

I meant Asura.

I think people are overlooking the fact that there's no evidence Sasuke used telekinesis to throw the Kaguya-Chibaku Tensei into orbit.

That has been established now.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I meant Asura.

Well my point still stands

I think people are overlooking the fact that there's no evidence Sasuke used telekinesis to throw the Kaguya-Chibaku Tensei into orbit.

Already conceded that

 

[HelloThere1089]

Well my point still stands

How? You literally said power given to Sasuke+Naruto=power given to Asura. Prove this.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

How? You literally said power given to Sasuke+Naruto=power given to Asura. Prove this.

I said that that if he didn’t then he shouldn’t have been capable of giving naruto six paths senjustu much less enough power for sasuke and Naruto to keep up with Kaguya unless deathbed hagromo is supposed to be comparable to Kaguya with the juubi

 

[HelloThere1089]

I said that that if he didn’t then he shouldn’t have been capable of giving naruto six paths senjustu much less enough power for sasuke and Naruto to keep up with Kaguya unless deathbed hagromo is supposed to be comparable to Kaguya with the juubi

But Sasuke and Naruto are weaker than Kaguya tho. Even combined. Honestly I am not understanding your logic here. Power given to Asura has nothing to do with Kaguya.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

But Sasuke and Naruto are weaker than Kaguya tho. Even combined. Honestly I am not understanding your logic here. Power given to Asura has nothing to do with Kaguya.

Which is why I said “keep up with” .it’s pretty simple death bed hagromo’s power would not be enough for naruto and sasuke to keep up with Kaguya. And considering ghost hags giving his power away just like what he did with asura it would make more sense that was the lvl of power he was giving to naruto and sasuke

 

[HelloThere1089]

Which is why I said “keep up with” .it’s pretty simple death bed hagromo’s power would not be enough for naruto and sasuke to keep up with Kaguya. And considering ghost hags giving his power away just like what he did with asura it would make more sense that was the lvl of power he was giving to naruto and sasuke

I need to clear some stuff up first. Are you using canon material for the Asura argument? Because I don't remember that much information being revealed in the manga. And I think Indra and Asura arc was filler.

And could you tell me where to find the info about death bed Hagoromo moving the moon to orbit. I'll continue after I have more information tbh. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I need to clear some stuff up first. Are you using canon material for the Asura argument? Because I don't remember that much information being revealed in the manga. And I think Indra and Asura arc was filler.

Yes, there wasn’t but I’m pretty sure I haven’t ventured into filler territory

And could you tell me where to find the info about death bed Hagoromo moving the moon to orbit. I'll continue after I have more information tbh. I'm a bit fuzzy on the details.

Pretty sure this is the scan and chapter

Spoiler: Chapter 467

 

[HelloThere1089]

Yes, there wasn’t but I’m pretty sure I haven’t ventured into filler territory

Alright then, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're arguing Hagoromo that moves the moon is the same as Hagoromo that gave Asura his power? Why?

Pretty sure this is the scan and chapter

Spoiler: Chapter 467

Nothing here suggests that Hagoromo that moves the moon was in his death bed. Give me the scan that leads you to believe Hagoromo moves the moon in his deathbed.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Alright then, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're arguing Hagoromo that moves the moon is the same as Hagoromo that gave Asura his power? Why?

No, I’m arguing that deathbed hagromo’s power would not be enough to keep up with kaygua and he wouldn’t be capable of giving naruto six paths senjustu

Nothing here suggests that Hagoromo that moves the moon was in his death bed. Give me the scan that leads you to believe Hagoromo moves the moon in his deathbed.

This is what leads the wiki to believe he did it on his deathbed
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hagoromo_Ōtsutsuki

I’m just assuming it’s this scan from the chapter since they never put it in his profile for whatever reason

 

[HelloThere1089]

No, I’m arguing that deathbed hagromo’s power would not be enough to keep up with kaygua and he wouldn’t be capable of giving naruto six paths senjustu

So this has nothing to do with Asura.

This is what leads the wiki to believe he did it on his deathbed
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hagoromo_Ōtsutsuki

I’m just assuming it’s this scan from the chapter since they never put it in his profile for whatever reason

It's the same chapter tho, unless you missed a page, I didn't see anything about Hagoromo being weakened and nearing his death. Infact it argues Hagoromo being the jubi jin facilitated this feat.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

If that was the case then he shouldn’t have had access to six path senjustu

Ghost Hagoromo's Chakra, despite no longer being a Ten Tails Jinchuriki, is still Six Paths Senjutsu or Six Paths Sage Chakra

Ten Tails', Madara's, and Hashirama's Chakras combined = His Chakra

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

So this has nothing to do with Asura.

It's the same chapter tho, unless you missed a page, I didn't see anything about Hagoromo being weakened and nearing his death. Infact it argues Hagoromo being the jubi jin facilitated this feat.

Tenten with Broom Beard's Tools Solos One Piece (Naruto: Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki Overhaul)

What's going on everybody? I hope ya'll are doing great. As promised, this is the Hagoromo overhaul I've been working on. After nearly two months of grueling work, it's finally ready. I'll keep this short and sweet. You guys know the drill by now. So, what's on the agenda? This thread has two...

vsbattles.com

 

[HelloThere1089]

Tenten with Broom Beard's Tools Solos One Piece (Naruto: Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki Overhaul)

What's going on everybody? I hope ya'll are doing great. As promised, this is the Hagoromo overhaul I've been working on. After nearly two months of grueling work, it's finally ready. I'll keep this short and sweet. You guys know the drill by now. So, what's on the agenda? This thread has two...

vsbattles.com

Damn I completely forgor about this thread. Thanks I needed to refresh my memory.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Damn I completely forgor about this thread. Thanks I needed to refresh my memory.

Gotta step up your game old man.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

So this has nothing to do with Asura.

Unless you think hagromo somehow had ten tails before he even seal it inside himself or when he died when he already got rid of the biju then sure

It's the same chapter tho, unless you missed a page, I didn't see anything about Hagoromo being weakened and nearing his death. Infact it argues Hagoromo being the jubi jin facilitated this feat.

Obit literally says he scattered the failed beast then sealed the ten tails corpse near the end of his life

Ghost Hagoromo's Chakra, despite no longer being a Ten Tails Jinchuriki, is still Six Paths Senjutsu or Six Paths Sage Chakra

Ten Tails', Madara's, and Hashirama's Chakras combined = His Chakra

Oh good so his power is greater then deathbed hags

 

[HelloThere1089]

Gotta step up your game old man.

Lmao so much happens on this site, it's hard to keep up.

Anyways @The_one_you_least_expect I'll respond after a couple of hours when I get back home.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Oh good so his power is greater then deathbed hags

Sure, in your opinion

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Sure, in your opinion

Not really unless you think deathbed hags somehow got back the power he gave to asura and somehow got the power of the juubi or the biju at the last minute

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

somehow got back the power he gave to asura,

We have no time frame for when he gave Ashura power, or if it was even power in the literal sense.

When talking to Naruto, Hags said he named Ashura as the Leader and Guardian of his Ninja Creed, after Ashura awoke his Bodily Chakra through training, a power rivaling Indra's. That is what began their conflict.

Power in that sense could refer to the power to lead people. I.e. Political/Governmental Power.

the juubi or the biju at the last minute

Hag's Chakra no longer has the same Quantity as he had when he was a Jinchuriki, but the Quality of his Chakra took on the same characteristics as if he were still one.

Ghost Hags said that Madara was currently getting close to him in power in the present, and is trying to gain Kaguya's power.

Kaguya's power is still greater than that of Ghost Hags. And Ghost Hags shouldn't be in the same league as Jinchuriki Hags as that is his Base power combined with Kaguya's/Ten Tails' power.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

We have no time frame for when he gave Ashura power, or if it was even power in the literal sense.

When talking to Naruto, Hags said he named Ashura as the Leader and Guardian of his Ninja Creed, after Ashura awoke his Bodily Chakra through training, a power rivaling Indra's. That is what began their conflict.

Power in that sense could refer to the power to lead people. I.e. Political/Governmental Power.

It was before he died so it doesn’t matter. He literally said he gave him all his power just like he did to naruto in sasuke in fact you posted multiple scans of him of him saying he did so idk what your talking

Hag's Chakra no longer has the same Quantity as he had when he was a Jinchuriki, but the Quality of his Chakra took on the same characteristics as if he were still one.

Ghost Hags said that Madara was currently getting close to him in power in the present, and is trying to gain Kaguya's power.

Kaguya's power is still greater than that of Ghost Hags. And Ghost Hags shouldn't be in the same league as Jinchuriki Hags as that is his Base power combined with Kaguya's/Ten Tails' power.

where was it ever stated that deathbed hags somehow had the same power he had in his prime?

The fact that madera was getting close to ghost hags his strength with ten tails already negs your argument.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

He literally said he gave him all his power just like he did to naruto in sasuke in fact you posted multiple scans of him of him saying he did so idk what your talking

Again, concerning Ashura, giving him power could have a different meaning. The fact that Ashura and Indra, and the previous reincarnations could fight one another implies they're all relative in strength something that won't happen when one side is so much stronger than the other.

where was it ever stated that deathbed hags somehow had the same power he had in his prime?

Do the words Quantity and Quality confuse you?

Post Tailed Beast Extraction Hagoromo no longer has the same Quantity of Chakra as his Jinchuriki self. But the Quality of what's left is same as his Jinchuriki self's Chakra.

Here in simple metaphor:

Jinchuriki Hagoromo's Chakra is Color Blue (Quality) and is worth 200 points (Quantity)

Post Tailed Beast Extraction Hagoromo's Chakra is still the Color Blue (Quality) but is only worth 100 points (Quantity)

Ghost Hags and Deathbed Hags' Chakra is still the Color Blue (Quality) but is only worth 100 points (Quantity)

The fact that madera was getting close to ghost hags his strength with ten tails already negs your argument.

And how does it negate my argument that Sasuke only has half of that power meaning he wouldn't scale to Ghost or Deathbed Hag's TK?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Again, concerning Ashura, giving him power could have a different meaning. The fact that Ashura and Indra, and the previous reincarnations could fight one another implies they're all relative in strength something that won't happen when one side is so much stronger than the other.

He literally relates it to actual power. Say’s who? You don’t know how asura and Indra fought or how strong Indra was.

Do the words Quantity and Quality confuse you?

Post Tailed Beast Extraction Hagoromo no longer has the same Quantity of Chakra as his Jinchuriki self. But the Quality of what's left is same as his Jinchuriki self's Chakra.

Here in simple metaphor:

Jinchuriki Hagoromo's Chakra is Color Blue (Quality) and is worth 200 points (Quantity)

Post Tailed Beast Extraction Hagoromo's Chakra is still the Color Blue (Quality) but is only worth 100 points (Quantity)

Ghost Hags and Deathbed Hags' Chakra is still the Color Blue (Quality) but is only worth 100 points (Quantity)

Do the words proof and evidence mean nothing to you?

The wiki literally states that deathbed hags is weaker then his base self. Unless you have solid proof of this then this doesn’t matter

And how does it negate my argument that Sasuke only has half of that power meaning he wouldn't scale to Ghost or Deathbed Hag's TK?

Ghost hags compared madera’s growing strength with the ten tails to his own. Which means ghost hags has power equivalent to his prime self. And deathbed hags is weaker then his prime self

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Do the words proof and evidence mean nothing to you?

Seems like you only think that Quantity automatically means the same level of power.

Deathbed Hags is obviously weaker, since he's literally dying. As I said before, and as I'll say again this doesn't affect the amount of Chakra he has after removing the Tailed Beasts and Gedo Mazo.

His body died but his Spirit and Chakra still persist. Unless you have proof that after his death he gained more Chakra than when he was alive, his Ghost self would still have the same amount of Chakra his alive self had after he removed the Tailed Beasts and the Gedo Mazo.

The wiki literally states that deathbed hags is weaker then his base self. Unless you have solid proof of this then this doesn’t matter

You want to play that game? Fine:

The wiki literally states that ghost hags is comparable to his deathbed self

Meaning that Sasuke shouldn't scale to Deathbed Hags' TK since he was only given half of that power.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Shouldn't hag stating kaguya was greater than anyone else just scale her above his telekinesis?

 

[BlastX]

Shouldn't hag stating kaguya was greater than anyone else just scale her above his telekinesis?

He can't use that offensively so it probably doesn't matter

 

[Daoist_Pepe]

What is this back and forth about dead Hag's chakra? Dead Hag is only relevant to Op's Sasuke proposal and OP already conceded on that. You guys are just going in circles, we should move on to the Toneri stuff. I will restate my vote.

I disagree with Op's first proposal

I agree with Op's second proposal (I expanded on why Toneri was going to recreate the earth from scratch as compared to Slayer perspective in Arc's thread on the feat being just terraforming)

I disagree with Op's third proposal

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Seems like you only think that Quantity automatically means the same level of power.

Deathbed Hags is obviously weaker, since he's literally dying. As I said before, and as I'll say again this doesn't affect the amount of Chakra he has after removing the Tailed Beasts and Gedo Mazo.

His body died but his Spirit and Chakra still persist. Unless you have proof that after his death he gained more Chakra than when he was alive, his Ghost self would still have the same amount of Chakra his alive self had after he removed the Tailed Beasts and the Gedo Mazo.

I am asking you for actual proof this

He can’t be by your logic sense his chakra/spirit would still persist regardless

He literally says madera’s with ten tails power is comparable to his own

The Naruto with just half of his power in spsm overpowers this same madera. he clearly has more power then his deathbed self

You want to play that game? Fine:

The wiki literally states that ghost hags is comparable to his deathbed self

Meaning that Sasuke shouldn't scale to Deathbed Hags' TK since he was only given half of that power.

Guess I’ll just have to change that since sasuke reached prime hagromos lvl with all the biju and the other half of his power

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

What is this back and forth about dead Hag's chakra? Dead Hag is only relevant to Op's Sasuke proposal and OP already conceded on that. You guys are just going in circles, we should move on to the Toneri stuff. I will restate my vote.

I disagree with Op's first proposal

I agree with Op's second proposal (I expanded on why Toneri was going to recreate the earth from scratch as compared to Slayer perspective in Arc's thread on the feat being just terraforming)

I disagree with Op's third proposal

I conceded on sasuke moving the SPCT I never conceded on sasuke have the power to do it

 

[karo_senpaii]

He can't use that offensively so it probably doesn't matter

Why are we going out of our way to say that the telekinesis death bed hag used to move the moon to orbit is somehow different and special instead of going with the already given and only telekinetic ability that the rinnengan already has?

 

[Daoist_Pepe]

I conceded on sasuke moving the SPCT I never conceded on sasuke have the power to do it

Irrelevant then, because nobody is contesting that. He already has SPCT in his Ap justification. Read his Part 2 profile specifically his six paths key, SPCT was calced at moon level. SASU PROFILE

Moon level (Naruto and Sasuke's Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is this strong, and Naruto contributed half[Statistics Values 10]) with Six Paths Chibaku Tensei

No not really I got it mixed up agian(for whatever reason hamaru is listed as planet lvl for SPCT)

Hamura's profile is outdated, the 5-B justification is from an old calc which we no longer use. This is the calc we use now, no one just cared to update Ham's profile. The only 5-B character in the verse is Kaguya as of now. Also your memory is supposed to better than mine, you just finished naruto while I read it two years ago.