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Naruto God Tiers Downgrade

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Im staying Neutral but obviously some of these points are bullshit if the Kages or freaking Boruto is going to be used as an argument.

Also, has someone messaged Tata about this? If not, I will.
 
Something that hasn't been addressed: Base Adult Sasuke is repeatedly shown as keeping up with Adult Six Paths Naruto (without Kurama form), able to match his speed and strength.

So shouldn't Base Adult Sasuke at least scale to Low 5-B as well, just a lesser degree to his Susano'o?

Similarly, why should Adult Sasuke have seperate keys for Base/Rinnegan? Sasuke's Rinnegan is constantly active, like all other shown iterations of the Rinnegan, and seeing as he blends his Rinnegan powers with his other jutsu quite frequently (especially Amenotejikara), I don't see why they should be seperate keys.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
Something that hasn't been addressed:
Base Adult Sasuke is repeatedly shown as keeping up with Adult Six Paths Naruto (without Kurama form), able to match his speed and strength.

So shouldn't Base Adult Sasuke at least scale to Low 5-B as well, just a lesser degree to his Susano'o?
Click to expand...
That's not Base Adult Sasuke, that's Rinnegan Adult Sasuke.

I point out in my OP how Sasuke's profiles need some key cleanup since there is a distinct difference in feats and scaling for Base Teenager Sasuke, Rinnegan Teenager Sasuke, Susano'o Teenager Sasuke, Base Adult Sasuke, Rinnegan Adult Sasuke, Susano'o Adult Sasuke.

Rinnegan versions of Sasuke don't seem to be physically on par with Six Paths Naruto versions, but his Ninjutsu does. Base iterations of Sasuke are a bit hard to gauge as he's similar to Kinshiki at least, but Kinshiki has literally no Low 5-B feats and only one possible Low 5-B durability feat.

Thus I asked in my OP that we hopefull fix his profile later. Hopefully after this one finishes we can.
 
I must have edited it while you were posting that, sorry, but my edit already contains a rebuttal: "Similarly, why should Adult Sasuke have seperate keys for Base/Rinnegan? Sasuke's Rinnegan is constantly active, like all other shown iterations of the Rinnegan, and seeing as he blends his Rinnegan powers with his other jutsu quite frequently (especially Amenotejikara), I don't see why they should be seperate keys."

Physically speaking, Base/Rinnegan Adult Sasuke performed on par physically with Six Paths Naruto against Momoshiki.
 
Agree:IMade (Obviously) GilgaArcuied, Damage3245 Regisnex1232,Zensum, Sera EX. sins32,ShadowBokuNoHero,VersusJunkie54, RinTheDragonEmpress, js250476, Sekusu, , Kepekley23, SinsOfMan, LordGriffin1000, Ovy7, PlumCrayfish376, The Real Cal Howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Sigurd snake in the eye, DarkDragonMedeus, CrimsonStarFallen, MagicCloud6,


Disagree:Rocker1189, dzhindzholia,BlackeJan, AstralKing(?)


Neutral:Dark649, Matthew Schroeder, Xerkser500

23 Agree, 3, maybe 4 disagree and three are neutral.

This thread looks concluded and is just being derailed with other offtopic questions and whatnot. May I request a staffmember to please close this and unlock the relevent profiles? (Sasuke,Naruto,Kaguya)
 
A Stoned Orc said:
I must have edited it while you were posting that, sorry, but my edit already contains a rebuttal: "Similarly, why should Adult Sasuke have seperate keys for Base/Rinnegan? Sasuke's Rinnegan is constantly active, like all other shown iterations of the Rinnegan, and seeing as he blends his Rinnegan powers with his other jutsu quite frequently (especially Amenotejikara), I don't see why they should be seperate keys."

Physically speaking, Base/Rinnegan Adult Sasuke performed on par physically with Six Paths Naruto against Momoshiki.
Click to expand...
Easy: Rinnegan isn't constantly active. It can be turned off and all of Sasuke's eyes return to normal. His Low 5-B feats are all with the Rinnegan active and with Ninjutsu. When its off he has 0 Low 5-B feats.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
A Stoned Orc said:
-snip-
Click to expand...
Easy: Rinnegan isn't constantly active. It can be turned off and all of Sasuke's eyes return to normal.-snip-
Click to expand...
That is demonstrably false. Sasuke's left eye never returns to normal after activating the Rinnegan. There are no manga or anime screens that show post-Fourh War Sasuke without his Rinnegan active at all times, even when walking casually, or spending time with Sarada and Sakura.

Even after using his eyes' power to the point he couldn't even use Susano'o by travelling dimensions, the only notable change was that his Rinnegan lost its six-tomoe.

It's why he grew his hair out to hide his left eye. Here are some screens from the anime, where he leaves the village:
Sasuke Rinnegan
Sasuke Rinnegan 2
 
GilgaArcuied said:
Agree:IMade (Obviously) GilgaArcuied, Damage3245 Regisnex1232,Zensum, Sera EX. sins32,ShadowBokuNoHero,VersusJunkie54, RinTheDragonEmpress, js250476, Sekusu, , Kepekley23, SinsOfMan, LordGriffin1000, Ovy7, PlumCrayfish376, The Real Cal Howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Sigurd snake in the eye, DarkDragonMedeus, CrimsonStarFallen, MagicCloud6,


Disagree:Rocker1189, dzhindzholia,BlackeJan, AstralKing(?)


Neutral:Dark649, Matthew Schroeder, Xerkser500

23 Agree, 3, maybe 4 disagree and three are neutral.

This thread looks concluded and is just being derailed with other offtopic questions and whatnot. May I request a staffmember to please close this and unlock the relevent profiles? (Sasuke,Naruto,Kaguya)
Click to expand...
There are still people who said will come with arguments and debutes tomorrow and asked to wait and not conclude this thread.
 
GilgaArcuied said:
Agree:IMade (Obviously) GilgaArcuied, Damage3245 Regisnex1232,Zensum, Sera EX. sins32,ShadowBokuNoHero,VersusJunkie54, RinTheDragonEmpress, js250476, Sekusu, , Kepekley23, SinsOfMan, LordGriffin1000, Ovy7, PlumCrayfish376, The Real Cal Howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Sigurd snake in the eye, DarkDragonMedeus, CrimsonStarFallen, MagicCloud6,


Disagree:Rocker1189, dzhindzholia,BlackeJan, AstralKing(?)


Neutral:Dark649, Matthew Schroeder, Xerkser500

23 Agree, 3, maybe 4 disagree and three are neutral.

This thread looks concluded and is just being derailed with other offtopic questions and whatnot. May I request a staffmember to please close this and unlock the relevent profiles? (Sasuke,Naruto,Kaguya)
Click to expand...
What do you have on your mind? Why would the thread be closed and the profiles unlocked? NOTHING was completed here, there are still people who disagree that did not manifest themselves in the post. If the thread closes, it does not mean it's finished, another will be started, this time defending Naruto. The only one that derailed the thread was you, as you always do with anything that IMade argues against. Stop being partial and stop polluting the thread by trying desperately to close it
 
you seem a bit salty, I did not derail the thread I posted the vote tally so this can be ended, and not prolonged by the extreme vocal minority who cannot accept their favourite characters are getting a slight downgrade.
 
No matter if you think the minority does not accept this or that, what matters is that the thread will not be closed just because someone who is desperate wants it to be
 
I don't think someone who holds a 85% Majority would be considered desperate, no.

On the contrary, you seem desperate to try and hold on to your favourite characters being 5-B, despite being debunked by the easily most reputable naruto fan on this site, as evidence of such the majority agrees with him. again.
 
Hagoromo specifically gave them his power, they didn't awaken it themselves. and thst was from Madara's view . he didn't even know that Hagoromo was talking to Naruto and sasuke so of course he'll believe they awakened it themselves.
 
Think about what you want. The thread will continue, you can continue to show that the votes are in your favor. If the thread closes, others will come.

I do not care about downgrade, I do not know what you're talking about.
 
cuz it makes no sense to awaken both by themselves . When hagoromo literally gave them Six Paths Chakra. the only thing he took back were the marks nothing else
 
Gilga, you gotta stop being like this. Seriously. Mocking everyone's not a great way to stay out of trouble.

Haven't really been able to take a deep look at this myself, but I can see about doing so in a little bit.
 
I'm just talling the votes, as you can see most people agree with IMade and theres no reason this needs to stay open.

Also I was attacked first by salty naruto fans.
 
Momoshiki has flat out destroyed a star in the novels and has an entire dimension stated to be parallel to the normal universe. Said dimension contains entire nebulae and stars.
 
I personally am on the negative side with this thread. I think that this should stay open for at least another day. I feel there are strong arguments being made on both sides but I think the counter arguments aren't being appropriately respected and confronted.

I'll decide on whether to agree or disagree as this continues.
 
Zion3xX said:
Momoshiki has flat out destroyed a star in the novels and has an entire dimension stated to be parallel to the normal universe. Said dimension contains entire nebulae and stars.
Click to expand...
You can say that how many times you want, or feats from novels. Vsbattle won't accept them till they are again confirmed canon or something like that. It was debuked N times (I think after Light Fang, this is the most debuked one). I really would like the novels to be accepted as canon but till then well...hope.
 
GilgaArcuied said:
I'm just talling the votes, as you can see most people agree with IMade and theres no reason this needs to stay open.

Also I was attacked first by salty naruto fans.
Click to expand...
Dude like seriously stop. Then calling people salty even though u came into the thread acting like a fangirl like u felt saying things like that would work on trying to start something? again if yur not gonna take this seriously and only came here to start something then leave cause really don't need that here
 
@Imade

  • I never said anything about their tier at all.
  • I already addressed why Madara is unreliable. This is similar to how Hashirama claimed that Sakura is stronger than Tsunade but we didn't believe to be current Tsunade because when she was a genin Hashirama was dead so he is not a reliable narrative.
  • I already read it and you postthis sca and I told you how Madara is unreliable and post databook entries.
  • Also,this sca doesn't have anything about possessing Six Paths Senjutsu/SPSM or any power at all, Hagoromo explains requirements for the removing Infinite Tsukuyomi.
  • This scan also doesn't prove Sasuke awakened just he can/could if he have decades (if he is given chakra by Hashirama) if at all but we have databook statements tell he given by Hagoromo.
SPSM given by Hagoromo and he stated that he gave both of them his power this time.

Sasuke's Rinnegan and Rinnegan power.

As the reincarnation of Indra, Sasuke only needed Chakra of Ashura. Sasuke achieved that when Hashirama (the previous reincarnation of Indra) granted Sasuke his Chakra. Sasuke naturally awakened it.

'Those' who had Six Paths Senjutsu were Juubi Jinchuriki Obito, Juubi Jinchuriki Madara and... Naruto. The common 'denomitaro' being that these characters all had Chakra from each of the 9 Bijuu and Hagoromo reveals that this is the case for Six Paths Senjutsu.

'The Chakra of all the 9 Bijuu is not even Low 5-B, nor is it 5-C. However, Naruto scales to Low 5-B through Toneri'.

  • Please, don't compare Juubi against other Bijuus as Juubi is not the sum of its parts as it stated by Kurama, it's chakra sensed by Naruto and literally stomped BM Naruto even when it doesn't have the majority of Kurama's and Hachibi's chakra.
Naruto has Six Paths Sage Mode which is apparent with his eyes and Six Paths Senjutsu apparent with the cloak which itself similar to JJ Obito, JJ Madara and Hagoromo (also Hamura iirc) also grants him the TSOs. Naruto has 9 TSO which JJs possess 10 of them.

Also, Hagoromo and Hamura have it even before possess Tenseigan and Juubi.

Madara's rating scales from Naruto's rating, not the other way around. Once again, something I addressed in the OP.

It's not for you, but it is understandable if you confused as I didn't tag anyone.

I'm tired at this point so I continue later if I found the time.
 
>As the reincarnation of Indra, Sasuke only needed Chakra of Ashura. Sasuke achieved that when Hashirama (the previous reincarnation of Indra) granted Sasuke his Chakra. Sasuke naturally awakened it.

Um, what in the hell? Hashi wasnt a reincarnation of Indra. Madara was...
 
Alright, I have a Naruto Bias. I will be the first to admit that.

I honestly think that it is tiring that every disagreement so far has been answered by IMade, and with great patience.

The only 'real' counterargument I have seen is Kaguya has a 5-B calc and thus everyone scales.

For one, Naruto and Sasuke together struggled with Kaguya. It is pretty clear in the context of the story that the two even combined were beneath Kaguya.

The only reason they won was because of teamwork, plain and simple.

I like 5-B Naruto and Sasuke, but there is honestly 'nothing' that scales to either to Hagoromo.

I said this before, but I agree with IMade. Is there honestly anything that needs to be discussed still? I don't see it.

There doesn't need to be a 100+ reply thread for something everyone is agreement with.

Especially when half of it is derailment.
 
Except not everyone agrees. Shadow alone has blatantly said he has a hell of a lot of problems with this and wants to bring them out tomorrow when he has the chance.

Just because a lot of people agree doesnt automatically mean we can't wait for more arguments to come.
 
Xerkser500 said:
Except not everyone agrees. Shadow alone has blatantly said he has a hell of a lot of problems with this and wants to bring them out tomorrow when he has the chance.

Just because a lot of people agree doesnt automatically mean we can't wait for more arguments to come.
Click to expand...
Arguing that we shouldnt prooceed with something because 'not everyone agrees' is a non starter.

No one ever always 'agrees' on this site, we still get things passed. Also, Shadow said he was fine with Low 5-B downgrades. He is not fine with 7-A kinshiki.
 
hmmm after looking at it again i guess there isn't a problem with downgrading naruto and such to low 5-B and thing the changes seems fine
 
By the way, doing my own reading of the very long OP, I also find points that I find extremely flawed and I might as well point it out myself.

>If you notice, outliers are singular events or incidents, the wording is not plural. An outlier is an object from a set that is not similar to the set. These feats of were actually consistent for the Kage and consistent for Momoshiki and Kinshiki. Outliers can be a super high-end feat or an extremely low-end feat that is not consistent with the majority of a character's feat.

>Okay, as I explained above, this is not an inconsistency for the Kage, these are literally their first feats as of Boruto era. By definition they are not inconsistent. The feats make up literally the entirety for an unamped Base Momoshiki and make up all the feats for Kinshiki except for possibly one. That is consistency.

This is not neccessarily wrong, but it's being applied in a very wrong way. The OPs points about these being consistent feats and not outliers would only be the case if the Kage Momoshiki and Kinshiki fought were entirely new characters. Which, of course, they obviously are not. And what do I mean by "new characters"? I mean characters who have only appeared as of recently in a series and have literally no backstory, previous showings, and of course no feats prior to the arc they debut in to suggest what they do recently is inconsistent. Which absolutely does not apply to the Kage at all.

Just because the Kage fighting the Otsutsuki are their "first feats as of Boruto era" doesnt mean that they cannot still be outliers or inconsistent feats. The Kage, especially Gaara of all people, are again not new characters all of a sudden who have no previous stats and feats to compare. May I remind people that before Boruto was a thing, these 4 kage were generally treated as fodder. Gaara is an exception for being a Kage in Shippuden, but the other 3? Darui, the only other Kage that has a page here, and is argubly stronger than Kurotsuchi and Chojiro in Shippuden, was at best a 7-C. And Gaara is just a lower end of 7-A in Shippuden.

This is not the same thing as [insert here] new character who pops into the franchise with no prior history. What the new character does in the arc they debut in cannot be an outlier or inconsistency for them because they're new. They have literally no feats prior to when they first appear, so what they do in their debut is their literal first feats in existence. Ever. An outlier is based on comparing previous feats with recent feats and whichever is consistent takes the priority, making the inflated feat inconsistent. So if a character is previously country level, but busts out a Planet level feat out of nowhere, the planet level feat is an actual outlier. But, if this new character has absolutely no previous showings prior to performing the planet level feat, then that first feat is whats consistent and cannot be an outlier.

The Kage are blatantly opposite of that. Characters who have been in the series since Shippuden (or in Gaaras case, from the start) and have previous feats and standings in the verse before moving up a rank in Boruto. Unless you want to sit here and make the argument that Gaara and the other 4 Kage have consistently trained to develop their skills (which is very doubtful as even Naruto himself finds very little time to train and was pointed out to have gotten rusty by Kurama) to become massively stronger by the point of Boruto, their feats as new Kages in this era can still easily be outliers/inconsistent feats.

There's a difference between entirely new characters doing feats and old characters doing new feats.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
That is demonstrably false. Sasuke's left eye never returns to normal after activating the Rinnegan. There are no manga or anime screens that show post-Fourh War Sasuke without his Rinnegan active at all times, even when walking casually, or spending time with Sarada and Sakura.

Even after using his eyes' power to the point he couldn't even use Susano'o by travelling dimensions, the only notable change was that his Rinnegan lost its six-tomoe.
Click to expand...
Nah, both of his eyes have been normal.

So he should have a different key for Base and Rinnegan.
 
Given that Shadow's response to this thread is going to require it's own blog or CRT, the fact that Shadow's sole complaint is about the Kinshiki and Momoshiki's rating and that there is a overwhelming majority and unanimous staff agreement on the 5-B to Low 5-B ratings, can we move on with the revisions for all the affected characters except Momoshiki and Kinshiki as we leave that for it's own thread under Shadow's thread?
 
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