Naruto: Character Revisions

[Mindovin]

Tobirama

Attack Potency

Only Fought against and killed Izuna Uchiha, who was equal to MS Madara Uchiha justification needs to be removed because MS Izuna never equal to MS Madara.

This is not true and causing scaling problems also and that statement means Tobirama can kill Madara.

Minato
Attack Potency

City level+ (His Sage Mode should be comparable to Jiraiya and Naruto)

Minato's SM either comparable to Jiraiya's incomplete SM or Naruto's perfect SM.

Speed

Massively Hypersonic+ (Kept up with Hashirama and Tobirama, dodged hits from Obito)

Minato blitzed them. When Four Hokage leave the shrine for going battlefield they use they maximum speed because they knew they must go to the battlefield as soon as possible.

Feat:

Minato teleport Juubi's TBB to the sea, casually chat with Naruto for 3 pages and in this time place 3 markers in opposite direction. Also, praised by Tobirama for his speed.

Notable Attacks/Techniques

• Kyuubi Chakra Mode: The first form Minato displayed. It seems to be a mix between Naruto's humanoid Biju Mode and his Kyuubi Chakra Mode, and thus enables him to fully transform into Kurama.
• Biju Mode: After Naruto managed to convince Yin Kurama to make his presence known, Kurama granted Minato the ability to fully transform into a darker shaded version of Naruto's full Biju Form.

This information and Kyuubi Chakra Mode key need to be removed because this info is wrong and misleading. From the start, Yin-Kurama gives full power to Minato. There is no reason for Yin-Kurama to not give his power, on the contrary, there are several reasons for given Minato full power. Kurama knew Juubi and Madara dangerous and powerful while separate and combining them at least utter disaster. We can prove this with a question and why this info is wrong within the context of the story. Why doesn't Yin Kurama give Minato full cooperation when he knows the power of the Juubi and Madara, their combined dangers and losing them same as the killing himself? Giving Minato Tailed Beast Mode (Yin-Half Nine-Tails) instead Bijuu Mode make his keys more accurate because of this.




Madara
Madara's attack potency and durability stats full of inconsistencies and wrong scaling.

Attack Potency

Country level with Perfect Susano'o (Stated that his power rivals that of the Bijuu, which includes Kurama)

• Kurama superior to other 8 Bijuu and comparing him without proof only wanking Madara. Like saying, Kisame has Bijuu level chakra but which Bijuu.

Speed

Massively Hypersonic+ (Able to react to KCM Naruto's assault)

• Naruto attacked him one time with TBB head-on and from the air and shout against Madara.

Durability

At least City level+ (Stronger than Tobirama), possibly Multi-Continent level with Perfect Susano'o (Tanked Kurama's Bijuudama without any damage, and Hashirama's Shinsuusenju could only partially destroy it), higher with Majestic Attire: Susano'o.

• This makes Prime Kurama's TBB lesser tier Multi-Continent but Multi-Continent nonetheless with scaling.

At least City level+ (Stronger than when he was alive. Reflected KCM Naruto's Mini Bijuu Bomb back at him, and blocked a blow from Raiton-clad Raikage)

• Reflected is the key word. He reflected with his Gunbai and that durability justification goes to his Gunbai, not himself.

I really want to know why we accept Revived Madara who doesn't have his eyes able to use Susano'o as a fact. It seems more like WIS.

Obito
Powers and Abilities

He has chain manipulation via Gedo Mazo like Sasuke and Madara. Without Gedo Mazo, Rinnegan user don't have chain manipulation on their own.

Intelligence:

He is dubbed as extremely intelligent but he is not and outsmarts other geniuses because he able to became JJ. Also, Sasuke labeled as a genius.

Reasons

He used genjutsu on the Mizukage to start bloodline massacres, not actual manipulation. When he first met Nagato, Konan, and Yahiko and introduced himself as Madara Uchiha he couldn't convince Yahiko. After Yahiko's death, Obito only gives instructions to Nagato while he remains in the shadow and given only capture the Tailed Beasts. He didn't outsmart nearly everyone, including geniuses like Minato, Hashirama, Hiruzen and Tobirama and became the Juubi's Jinchuriki because they didn't know anything about several important events like how someone became JJ, whatever reason he pierced his heart to Kakashi, who is this person and his goals at that moment.

If someone denies this don't forget Naruto able to deduce he becoming Juubi's Jinchuriki and this makes him one of the most intelligent person in Narutoverse above Minato and Tobirama.

Sasuke Uchiha
Attack Potency

Look at Naruto(teenager)

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei: ....... Can't use without a Six Paths Yang Mark user.

Durability

Small Planet level with Perfect Susano'o (Survived some of Kaguya's attacks)

• Kaguya one-shotted his Susano'o and most of the fight he is either on the sidelines or in another dimension entirely.

Stamina

Very high with comparatively large reserves of chakra (Fought with Kages and bodyguards, Danzo and Team Kakashi with little rest)

I don't know his stamina levels but his reasoning is wrong as we can see his chakra replenished by Zetsu and Karin healed him after Tobi teleport them in his dimension.








Speed

Sasuke didn't blitz SPSM Naruto he used his Amenotejikara. Blitzing SPSM Naruto with the one the best sensory capabilities in the verse result in what? Rel+ or higher?

Naruto Uzumaki(teenager)
His page has 11 key but there is 10 key for lifting strength.

Attack Potency

Small Planet level (Created a moon alongside Sasuke)

Creating moon can't use for their Attack Potency for several reasons.

1) They created the moon with a special technique classified as a sealing in the databook.

2) They did this technique for one time only. After touching Kaguya, Hagoromo regains his Yin-Yang Seals.

3) They did it extremely casually after fighting against Madara and Kaguya and this makes them much higher than their current tier-probably even Planet Level- and I can see outliers, hyperboles, impossibles in the thread.

Suggestio

They need to scale from their individual feats both attack potency and Durability.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

Six Paths Chibaku Tensei: ....... Can't use without a Six Paths Yin Mark user.

Speed

Massively Hypersonic+ (Kept up with the Deva Path) | Massively Hypersonic+ (Kept up with the Six Paths of Pain)

They are the same person and are they not have the same speed? Doesn't this make his Base=SM for speed?

My English not good enough to explain this correctly but

Massively Hypersonic+ (Kept up with the Third Raikage and dodged his fastest punch)

He dodged Third Raikage while using Sage Mode, not 9-Tails Chakra Mode but Naruto used 9-Tail Chakra Mode when he dodged killing intent Fourth Raikage.

Intelligence

Plagiarism(?). Taking from Narutopedia without changing.

Key: Base Kid Naruto | One-tailed Kid Naruto | Base Teen Naruto | Sage Mode | Tailed Beast Transformations | Nine-Tails Chakra Mode | Fourth Shinobi World War | Tailed Beast Mode (Yang-half Nine-Tails) | Tailed Beast Sage Mode | Six Paths Sage Mode | Tailed Beast Six Paths Sage Mode

Tailed Beast Mode (Yang-half Nine-Tails) and Tailed Beast Six Paths Sage Mode keys unnecessary because this two mode Naruto only create a chakra avatar like normal Susano'o.

My suggestion is:

Naruto

Low 5-B. At least Low 5-B with Six Paths: Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken. Or, this directly At least 5-B.

Naruto Uzumaki(Adult)
Adult Naruto can use Tailed Beast Six Paths Sage Mode because the technique requires Kurama Chakra Cloak+Shadow Clone+SPSM and Naruto has all of it.

Hashirama
Attack Potency

Multi-Continent level (Restrained Second Form Juubi, and is twice as strong as BSM Naruto)

This proves nothing and false because

• Mokuton is a hax especially for Tailed Beasts with their tall size and unfocused power. Mokuton's Bijuu binding, paralyzing, chakra suppressing and absorbing properties.
• Hashirama's Senpō: Myōjinmon (Sage Art: Gate of the Great God) technique is a sealing technique , therefore, this technique can't scale to Hashirama's attack potency and striking strength.
• Hashirama never stated he is more powerful than %50 BSM Naruto, only their chakra is comparable. Hashirama that when Naruto didn't use BSM, therefore Hashirama doesn't scale to BSM Naruto. Also, Hashirama doesn't have natural chakra sensing and when he said this while in Base, this makes it guessing.
• Without proper techniques chakra level is not that important if it does then Juubi, JJ Madara, JJ Obito, Kaguya, JJ Hagoromo go at least 5-A with ease.

Speed

Massively Hypersonic+ (Much faster than Base Shippuden Naruto)

• Hashirama fast enough to physically strike and defend himself against EMS Madara in base and his speed comparable to Tobirama in Edo form.

Juubi and Kurama
Explanation about nature of the Juubi.

Most people think Juubi = 9-Tails+8-Tails+7-Tails+6-Tails+5-Tails+4-Tails+3-Tails+2-Tails+1-Tails but it's incorrect. This explained by Kurama and sensed by Naruto.






Attack Potency and Speed

Six Path Sage Chakra Enhancement

Moon level+ via power-scaling (Shouldn't be much weaker than Kyuubi Chakra Sage Mode Naruto and battled Toneri's golem)

Sub-Relativistic

Juubi

Multi-Continent level (Even when it is not fully charged, its Bijüdama was capable of destroying mountain ranges and entire cities with a single shot. Its Tenpenchii attack caused this much damage)

At least Multi-Continent level, likely higher (Stronger than before. The shockwaves from the Bijüdama redirected to the ocean were even felt from the battlefield)

Massively Hypersonic+ (Outright blitzed BM Naruto. While in incomplete form, its Chakra Beam crossed mountain ranges within two seconds)

Juubi itself has Six Paths Nature Chakra as default because it's Kaguya's will and Obito and Madara gained Six Path Sage Chakra after becoming it's Jinchuuriki. Problem is Kurama who takes Six Paths Chakra from Hagoromo is more powerful than the source itself.

There is two solution for that.

1) Juubi upgraded above Six Path Sage Chakra Enhancement Kurama

2) Six Path Sage Chakra Enhancement Kurama downgraded below Imperfect State Juubi.

Sources
Databook: https://narutoversity.wordpress.com/fourth-databook-jutsu-files/

Scans: *********

Also, it includes Narutopedia in technique classification.

If translations are not reliable please inform me. If you could give me more accurate translations I thank you in advance.

 

[Antvasima]

I will ask Kepekley23 to comment here.

 

[Mindovin]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

You should always say in the title what verse that you are talking about.

 

[Mindovin]

Sorry,while adding other character i forget changing that and thanks for the editing.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

 

[Kepekley23]

1. That's not a reason for Tobirama to have a range of thousands of kilometers.

2. I agree that SO6P Shinju Madara's Type 1 should be replaced with Longevity, but his Type 3 should stay, since that's Regenerationn-based and Madara himself stated he was immortal because of his So6P restoring his body.

3. The 3rd Raikage was outright stated to have fought three days and three nights without collapsing, his speed has nothing to do with that and it'd contradict the manga.

Plus, he already receives this stamina from powerscaling alone.

4. Yin Kurama doesn't have the same power as Prime Kurama. Minato's rating can stay.

5. Obito being extremely intelligent might be an hyperbole. I guess we can change it to "relatively smart in battles" or the likes.

6. Sasuke's Chain Manip can probably be removed, his speed stays since he stil receives powerscaling. The stamina stays, the fact that Zetsu and Karin had to heal him just means it was spent after that.

7. A better reasoning is needed, why is Teenage Naruto's So6PM Tailed Beast inaccurate?

8. Adult Base Naruto's tier was discussed to exhaustion in the revisions, it was decided his feats were too inconsistent to be given a definite tier. Although I was personally fine with "At least Low 6-B".

9. The calculation already splits the power required to do that among both of them. Additionally, they are also powerscaled from other Low 5-B feats in the verse.

10. Asura did indeed inherit Hagoromo's power and chakra, this was stated on chapter 670. Indra receives powerscaling from this, so their "possibly Low 5-B" tier should stay.

 

[Schnee_One]

I THOUGHT

THEY WERE DONE

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the analysis Kepekley. I am fine with if somebody is willing to apply your conclusions.

 

[Kepekley23]

Indra inherited Hagoromo's ability and talent.

Asura inherited Hagoromo's chakra and lifeforce.

 

[Kepekley23]

Not necessarily, but to avoid confusion, I'll edit it.

 

[Mindovin]

@Gargoyle One

I wrote in the revision threats but it mostly ignored and i didn't receive even a reply.

1) When i wrote that i compared his Hiraishin to Minato's version. I remember somewhere he give Kakashi one of his kunai for if he need help during the 3SWW. If he give his kunai start of war this means Minato can teleport countries away from battlefield to battlefield but i didn't find it.

2) Even Hagomoro don't have immortality and Hagomoro have so much more life force and large and powerful chakra than Madara it's not even funny.

3)I know it's stated as i show the scan but fighting three days and nights shinobi and not even 1 person come to his help from his country? This means it's hyperbole or Elemantal Continent more bigger than we can imagine.

4) You read what i wrote and look what in the link? Because i never said about tier changing.

• Kyubi Chakra Mode: The first form Minato displayed. It seems to be a mix between Naruto's humanoid Biju Mode and his Kyubi Chakra Mode, and thus enables him to fully transform into Kurama.
• Biju Mode: After Naruto managed to convince Yin Kurama to make his presence known, Kurama granted Minato the ability to fully transform into a darker shaded version of Naruto's full Biju Form.

This information and Kyuubi Chakra Mode key need to be removed because it's completely false as i show with a scan. Giving Minato Tailed Beast Mode (Yin-Half Nine-Tails) instead Bijuu Mode make his keys more accurate.

6) The fact Zetsu give chakra and Karin had to heal him means he spent before that as i show with scans.

7) Sorry, wrong wording. So6PM Tailed Beast key is unnecessary key because SPSM+Cloak+Kage Bunshin only requirement for this form.

8) I aggre with you. I personally think even giving him a tier and saying possible far higher more accurate and i think using unknown like this is insult for people show effort -admins, people who calcing feats etc.-.

9)I didn't disregard the feat but we know about technique itself next to nothing and it's classified as a sealing. I'm not even sure this feat can be converted to their attack potency because they not even break a sweat after touching Kaguya.

I proposed this: We can add this feat and technique as a note and allow this technique in fights Naruto and Sasuke fight as a duo.

Given Naruto and Sasuke tier and ap for their indvidual feats make more sense.

There is 5-B feat for Sasuke other than Six Paths Chibaku Tensei?

10) You look to the links? As i show wit the scans Hagoromo give leadership of Ninshu to Asura not his chakra power. Indra and Asura like Madara/Hashirama and Sasuke/Naruto -before gaining power from Hagoromo- and every other chakra user born with their power and with time become more powerful but Hagoromo didn't give Asura SPSM and/or other chakra base power. We can deduce this from Indra and Asura fight. If Hagoromo indeed give Asura SPSM he casually stomp MS Indra who didn't gain even watered version of Rinnegan.

Others?

If my words seem rude sorry for that it's because my average English writing.

 

[LordWhis]

@Mindovin: I think you are right about the otsotsuki bros. Hagoromo only gave Asura his chakra in the anime and it was only in the anime that he attained six paths Sage Mode.

But Asura has always been portrayed as yellow coloured and Naruto's tailed beast 6 Paths Sage Mode is called Asura Mode so there is indirect evidence for Asura to have access to 6 Paths Sage Mode.

 

[Mindovin]

It's symbolism. Sasuke named his current most powerful attack Indra's Arrow, Naruto create Asura's Avatar with Kurama.

Also if it's true MS Madara able to defeat Hashirama and EMS Madara had enough power to stomp Shinobi World with utter ease.

 

[LordWhis]

Fair enough I guess.

 

[Kaybanks]

9. The Six paths CT feat should remain as part of Naruto's and Sasuke's ap for the simple reason it requires energy in the form of gravity to do so which is calculable. It's not some form of hax as we see it drained Hagoromo's chakra considerably after giving the power to Naruto and Sasuke. If Naruto and Sasuke can contain that much power within themselves and even trigger it's release it should be scaled to their AP. My two cents.

 

[Golden_Void]

Obito spamming kamui doesn't say anything about his stamina. He fought Kakashi, guy, Naruto and controlled the edo jinchuuriki, then goes with Madara to control the Juubi.

 

[Mindovin]

@UMR

You are right. I decided to delete Obito stamina because later i remembered half of his body created from Hashirama's cells.

Edit: I deleted Obito stamina.

 

[Mindovin]

Is Hachibi's tails and body have same durability?

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

2) Even Hagomoro don't have immortality and Hagomoro have so much more life force and large and powerful chakra than Madara it's not even funny.

The Juubi/Shinjuu makes the difference. The Shinjuu is what makes Madara immortal and the Sage died because he wasn't a Jin anymore like Madara.

 

[Mindovin]

Hagoromo created Tailed Beasts because he knew when he died Juubi gain freedom.

 

[Mindovin]

bump

 

[Frantzy12]

I agree with not using the Low-5B sealing technique as a means to increase their AP,it wasn't even an attack and they did it extremely casually and after that had an intense battle on their own wheee each of them used their actual strongest technique.If we use the sealing to scale AP of them then they're casually Low-5B lmao and are probably as strong as Planet+ Kaguya lol.

 

[Mindovin]

4-C Kaguya.

Also bump

 

[Dzhindzholia]

OP is too big,i think it will be a lot better to revise every character independently,just create another thread with only 1 character.That is hard to read.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Having a revision thread for each character here will clutter our forum harder than Naruto clones did when he had a bad stomach.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

That is also true,but that OP is large,it will just be impossible to revise so many characters in one thread.

 

[Gemmysaur]

It can be discussed batch by batch. If this thread reaches hundreds of replies while having only finished say... 3 profiles, then a new thread can be made for the next, and so on, until the entire thing is finished. That's the best I can think of without cluttering the forum.

 

[Mindovin]

Really, there is no need for long discussion for Madara's abilites, Tobirama, Adult Naruto, Obito, Sasuke, Hagoromo and some other powers, abilities and teeanger Naruto's attack potency.

Minato, Teenager Naruto, Madara, Hashirama, Juubi and Kurama need to be discussed. Third Raikage's stamina just my opinion and not that important right now, so it can be discussed after everthing settled.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Okay,I think it is better to begin with Madara,i agree about Minato and Tobirama.

"Country level with Perfect Susano'o (Stated that his power rivals that of the Bijuu, which includes Kurama)

• Kurama superior to other 8 Bijuu and comparing him without proof only wanking Madara."

Perfect Susanoo was already shown to tank Prime Kurama's TBB without a scratch.I am sure Madara is reliable.I mean,he didn't even use Perfect Susanoo after he got revived,he used Humanoid to challenge Tailed Beasts.

"At least City level+ (Stronger than when he was alive. Reflected KCM Naruto's Mini Bijuu Bomb back at him, and blocked a blow from Raiton-clad Raikage)

• Reflected is the key word. He reflected with his Gunbai and that durability justification goes to his Gunbai not himself."

Agree,it was a durability of Gunbai,Madara was somehow managed to hold that force.Maby we can just add "higher with Gunbai".

"I really want to know why we accept Revived Madara who doesn't has his eyes able to use Susano'o as a fact. It's seems more like WIS."

Susanoo doesn not requier eyes,i guess.

About third Raikage:

That is not outlier,10k enemies are dangerous even for Kage lvl character,ninjas are not just a bunch of guys that will attack Raikage immediately,when Ninjas work together they can easily kill even Kage lvl,Tobirama is an example.

Agree about Obito.

Agree about Sasuke too.

 

[ForgetfulOne5]

Shouldn't Kaguya have durability negation since her all-killing ash bones effect people on a molecular level? And sleep inducement because she could put people to sleep?

 

[Mindovin]

@Forget

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1541901

 

[Dzhindzholia]

^Where is it stated that AKAB affects targets on molecular lvl?

 

[ForgetfulOne5]

I read it on the Naruto wiki page. That thread is really long how am I going to find it amongst all that?

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"When these bones pierce a living organism, the bone and target starts to deteriorate at a molecular level, disintegrating the victim and reducing their bodies to nothing more than a pile of ash."

I found.

 

[Mindovin]

Sorry i forget i deleted my comment.

This thread for this characters and what i wrote for them. If you want ask questions for abilites that is your thread. Simply write that thread.

ctrl+f or using mobile options>search and write a word about what you want to find.

 

[Omimi]

its not only sealing technique thou

they also had to put that moon into orbit no?

hagoromo did same things on his deathbed

also creating moon=/=blasting moon into the orbit

 

[Mindovin]

It's probablt scale to their ap because technique Chibaku Tensei basically but that changes when we look deeper.

Technique classified as a Sealing, ninjutsu and cooperation ninjutsu in narutopedia. It's one-time deal and done extremely casually by Naruto and Sasuke and after this they go and fight with each other.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

I think low5-B is fine for them,Toneri's feats can also be used as justification.Who knows,maby we will get some new feats soon.

 

[HST_Master]

For Naruto and Sasuke's Ap why don't we just do what we did with Nagato having them low 5-B via Catastrophic Planetary Devastation?