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Naruto and Sasuke are Small Planet Level (Overall)

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BarryAllen2.0

BarryAllen2.0

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Naruto and Sasuke should Scale to Madara. Similarly to Android 17 matching Goku, Naruto Himself matched Madara. Infact, Madara showed nothing surpassing Naruto or Sasuke.

Naruto:

-Matched Madara h2h

-Casually Drestoyed Madara's CT

-Injured Madara's Limbo (Which are Stated to be Madara's Equals)

-Injured Kaguya (Multiple times)

-Over powered Kaguya Twice (Though she was holding back at the time)

-Contriputed to half of SPCT (Which itself is already near Small Planet Level)

-Matched Sasuke (Who had Killing Intent)

-Held His own against Biju-Susanoo Sasuke (Who had Killing intent)

Naruto wasn't at his max for any of this, Kurama even states Naruto was already relatively low on chakra/stamina) and this is all before absorbing the Worlds Nature Energy and using ashura avatar. Sasuke scales to Naruto (Though not quite as strong).

There is enough proof to Upgrade SPSM Naruto from Moon+ to Small Planet Level and Alternatively, Sasuke as well.

The Stats should be as follows:

  • Naruto: Small Planet level (Matched Six Paths Madara/Injured Kaguya Twice) | At Least Small Planet level, Possibly Higher (Absorbed the planets Nature Energy/Matched Biju-Susanoo)
  • Sasuke: Small Planet Level (Scaling from Naruto) | At Least Small Planet level, Possibly Higher (With Biju-Susanoo)
  • Madara: Same as listed on Wiki already | At Least Small Planet Level, Possibly Higher (With Chakra Gained from those trapped in Infinite Tsukiyomi)
Extra: About Hags stating Madara was approaching his level, that's unquantifiable simply based on whether or not he was refering to his prime before becoming a jinchuriki, after becoming a jinchuriki or post jinchuriki with retained Chakra from being a Juubi Jin. So we can't use that to say Madara is above Naruto or Sasuke. And considering the fact that Hags and Hamura bested Prime Juubi, Madata would be Small Planet Level for approaching his power.
 
From the Discussion Rules: When upgrading Naruto and Sasuke, please refrain from powerscaling to the Sage of Sixth Paths. As discussed here due to the likelihood of the Sage creating the Moon with aid, thus placing him in a lower range of "Small Planet level" than previously believed, it would not affect their current ratings, as they were depicted to have gained half of this power. This is validated by their own feat, and appropriate calculatio.
 
Dark649 said:
From the Discussion Rules: When upgrading Naruto and Sasuke, please refrain from powerscaling to the Sage of Sixth Paths. As discussed here due to the likelihood of the Sage creating the Moon with aid, thus placing him in a lower range of "Small Planet level" than previously believed, it would not affect their current ratings, as they were depicted to have gained half of this power. This is validated by their own feat, and appropriate calculatio.
Click to expand...
I'm not scailing from the Sage for Naruto or Sasuke. Sure, maybe in Madara's case, but I didn't rate him there. Manga says Madara approached his level and that's what's already on the wiki.

This is going by feats. Naruto Matched the guy stated to be near Hagoromo's level. Injured the one stated to be above his level. Six Paths Chibaku Tensei happened after Naruto and Sasuke fought Madara and went at it with Kaguya. Naruto then held his own against Sasuke with Biju Susanoo which is using the chakra Kaguya had which is AT LEAST Small planet Level...

Then, if you want to get technical, Naruto and Sasuke are rated Moon+ for Chibaku Tensei (And their halfs are already in the calc stated to be higher end Moon+ near Small Planet Level).
 
Wait a minute on Naruto's (Teenager) page he is Moon Level+ for creating the moon with Sasuke but on Hagamoro's page (Prime Key) he is Small Planet level for creating the moon with his brother why is that.
 
Was Hagoromo still considered to be weaker than Kaguya after he had absorbed the chakra of all the Tailed Beasts?

He should have gotten a major increase in power after the tailed beast absorption (similar to Madara's absorption of the tailed beasts increased his power tremendously).

Thus, Hagoromo with Tailed Beasts chakra absorbed >> Young Hagoromo. Naruto/Sasuke would scale to half of this power.
 
Let's wait until more people respond in that thread, although Naruto with the Six Paths Sage powers completely owned Six Paths Madara in base form before Madara absorbed the Shinju.

What was the reason that Madara before absorbing the Shinju was considered to be Small Planet level AP again?
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Wait a minute on Naruto's (Teenager) page he is Moon Level+ for creating the moon with Sasuke but on Hagamoro's page (Prime Key) he is Small Planet level for creating the moon with his brother why is that.
Click to expand...
Hagoromo and his brother's moon creation feat was calculated at a value of over 1 zettaton. This means, at that point in time, individually they were just barely over the lower limit of small planet.

Best not to powerscale to Kaguya. Her abilities fluctuated widely throughout the battle.

Instead of powerscaling Naruto and Sasuke to Madara, why not scale the latter to the former? After all, calc wise Hagoromo is in the lower limits of Small Planet level and Madara is only "approaching" that level. He has not attained it yet.

It would also solidify their current ratings whilst simultaneously fixing many of the powerscaling issues with the top and God tiers.

Also, where is it stated Naruto absorbed the natural energy of the planet? I just see unquantifiable statements like "everything available" which is not very specific.
 
Without going through the entirity of the OP, I read Small Planet Naruto. I've no problem with that in his Six Paths form considering he and Sasuke are just below the borderline between Moon+ and Small Planet.

Reading through it and some comments, Naruto scaling to Madara's supposed Small Planet who scales from Hagoromo is a bit ehh. Madara was iirc, approaching Hagoromo's power, not stated to be on par. Madara imo should scale to Naruto instead.

Six Paths NaruSasu amped on nature energy and bijuu chakra respectively being Small Planet is logical because first paragraph of my comment. Though, to how much is unquantifiable, and they've not replicated that power boost yet, and Sasuke especially won't be anytime soon so that Small Planet statistic remains with their teen forms and not their adults. TL;DR, no change in NaruSasu's profiles.

Mind you, I haven't read half the way down the comments yet so yeah.
 
Instead of powerscaling Naruto and Sasuke to Madara, why not scale the latter to the former? After all, calc wise Hagoromo is in the lower limits of Small Planet level and Madara is only "approaching" that level. He has not attained it yet.

The issue with that statement is that Madara only started matching Naruto/Sasuke after he had absorbed the power of the Shinju, which is the Tree/flower. Do we not have the tree itself at Small Planet level via scaling it to Kaguya?
 
If we go by Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, then you have to remember that's not their full power, especially considering the fight they had prior with Madara/Kaguya and After With each other.

So here is what we know:

-Hags gave Naruto and Sasuke each half his power

  • This means that Naruto and Sasuke are a little stronger than half of Hags power factoring their own power prior.
-Hagoromo has the power to use Six Paths Chibaku Tensei himself as he gave Naruto and Sasuke the chakra to use it.

  • Meaning that the full value scales to him, but, Considering SPCT isn't a high chakra cost for Naruto and Sasuke, it doesn't constitute Hags full power meaning, all three of their upper limits are unknown. At least, Hags has to be rated Small planet Level, Likely Higher.
-Pre-Shinju Absorbing, Madara was stated to be approaching Hags level.

  • As TMR said, that doesn't make him Hags level, just he's not quite there yet. That would make Madara's peak "Unknown". (So based on this after thinking about it, we can't scale Naruto from Madara).
-Naruto pretty much matched Madara.

  • Naruto matched Madara in pretty much everything. H2h, Technique vs Technique, Injury vs Injury, etc. Madara showed Nothing surpassing Naruto and Sasuke. Infact, he was overwhelmed. What can we say? Naruto ~ Madara based on what's shown (Hax not with standing).
So, Sasuke and Madara should scale from Naruto being he has better feats then both. Now, as for Naruto and Sasuke being Small Planet level, that depends. Based on SPCT, their halfs are already Higher End Moon+ for that technique and we know that's not their max. Given Naruto still had enough chakra to hold his own against PS/Biju Susanoo after, it stands to reason that He has much more chakra than SPCT requires. So, Naruto and Sasuke should scale from SPCT entirely given by virtue of feats, their chakra capacity > Chakra requirement for SPCT.

Different scaling but this makes Madara ~ Naruto ~ Sasuke. And with Infinite Tsukiyomi Chakra, Nature Energy and biju susanoo, they all still should get the proposed stats in the OP.
 
@Lina Shields the Shinju is Small Planet level because it fought the Sage and his brother at the same time
 
They can't realistically be small-planet lvl when weaker characters are stronger than that. I'd like to give a little rundown on how I see things around here (this might be long).

-Juubi is a force of nature described to be as a planet on its own when powering up (I've elaborated on this in the recent Kurama Vs Juubi thread).

-Juubi-jins are superior to the Juubi. Obito's Artifact could create or destroy the world. Madara could ultlise the Rinnegan's gravitational power—Tengai Shinsei—to pull celestial objects, and eventually create a moon by compressing them together. Also Infinite tsukuyomi(a genjutsu) violently shook the planet from the moon.

- We Know Hagoromo has access to all of the above, plus he created the moon on his deathbed (some are confused whether it was with his brother or by himself. They're mixing two separate events together).

- Toneri could control the gravitational force on the moon, move the moon, destroy the moon, even destroy the planet.

- Kinshiki is described as being able to split a planet.

- And of course Momoshiki and Kaguya are even more impressive than those listed above. Kaguya is able to do most of the above, and even create and destroy her own dimensions. Momoshiki is straight-up described as a godlike being who travels worlds and dimensions in search of treasures. He could also create and destroy a dimension.


I could go on and elaborate on how characters above Juubi (not Kaguya, just the Juubi beast) are planet lvl but I don't like beating around the bush too much. It's tedious! Especially considering that Naruto universe is scrutinised and critically, even unfairly, judged much more than many other works of fiction. You'd need 110% evidence in order to approve of anything in many sites because the oppositions are many, and they don't want to allow it.

For example, Toneri isn't planet lvl, even moon lvl here in spite of the movie showing his base form to move the moon, and his powered-up form to destroy the planet. What was the excuse? "Because the moon was hollow". I'd have to bring some type of indisputable, 110%, in-yo-face type of evident to show that it makes little sense to assume the core (of all places) to be hollow; evidence to show that only a small fraction of the surface of the moon was made hallow; evidence like this.

HiIQ5X1
 
@Authorfall

1) Scans please.

2) Too vague. Could just as easily be destroying the Ninja World and civilization since the word planet isn't used.

3) He did it with his brother Hamura, so yes he had help.

4) Controlling the moon's gravitational force isn't quantifiable. The moon he cut through was mostly hollow, and he didn't bust it in one shot. In addition, the results have been calced already. No dice.

5) Outlier, given that Momoshiki was taken out by a single Oodama Rasengan even after he ate Kinshiki.
 
Not only are you doing what I've just described-- the critical scrutinisation--but you've not properly read what I've written nor collected your facts wells either.
 
@Author

You're the accuser, you provide the evidence. The burden of proof falls on you.

I've seriously browsed through dozens of these threads in the last month and a half and the same points get brought up every single time.

And yes, Hagoromo needed help to seal Kaguya. Lying through your teeth and cutting out context isn't flying here.
 
Again, you've not collected your facts well and yet so confident in yourself, nor have you read what I've written. To prove that, I'll start with one of the things I've said.

-"Juubi is a force of nature described to be as a planet on its own when powering up (I've elaborated on this in the recent Kurama Vs Juubi thread)."

Go to that thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/688559?useskin=oasis
 
This is getting unnecessarily heated...

The Boruto Novel, which is no longer canon, is the only medium that states Momoshiki created that dimension.

@Lina we don't have that form of the Juubi listed actually. The god tree (of old) technically isn't the Juubi which is the combination of Kaguya and the god tree.

I don't know if the Shinju boosted his physical stats to be honest. I just remember him noting it gave him immortality.
 
@Authorofall

Provide explicit scans of it being described as a planetary threat. In addition, being a planetary threat =/= being a planet buster, since being a threat to everything on the planet is extremely vague.

Furthermore, a sphere of water swelling up like a planet is not a proper indication of power, as it is simply a simile used by the ninja to describe its strength rather than an actual feat.

Again, provide actual scans of feats rather than hype statements without basis. "Was like a planet in itself" is again vague, since its mass certainly did not exceed a planet's.
 
Did you properlly read up the description of the Jutsu used to read the Juubi? The only thing vague about it is whether his presence was like that of a little star or a planet. I've posted the 2 scans. The former would have significant implications.

Next I'll talk about Toneri.

"Toneri could control the gravitational force on the moon, move the moon, destroy the moon, even destroy the planet."


The moon.

HiIQ5X1
Translation: "Heading: As the last survivor of the Ōtsutsuki Clan, he will fulfill their thousand year vow.

The Ōtsutsuki Clan settled on the surface of the moon in order to guard the Gedō Statue sealed within it...."

Ōtsutsuki Clan settled on the surface of the moon.

This part should've been obvious because Sai's bird doesn't move kirin-like speeds to move from the core to the surface of the moon.


The world's destruction was Toneri's plan, so he was about to use an even bigger and stronger TSB beam to strike the world. The Scans for that was posted by Omimi recently in a thread https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/686875?useskin=oasis
 
VenomElite said:
The Shinjuu only granted Madara immortality and the Rinne Sharingan when he drew near the moon.
Oh yeah and Madara w/ two rinnegan > Naruto and Sasuke.
Click to expand...
The bolded is not true. And even then, Hax withstanding, Madara from a pure power standpoint is not superior in the slightest.

Also, i would appriciate if we can discuss the feats that are relevant here. Does anyone dispute Naruto's and Sasuke's Chakra Capacity exceeding what SPCT requires?
 
I was referring to hax. That's why Obito said Madara would be unstoppable with both rinnegan.
 
@Reppuzan

Toneri became able to move the moon on his own when he awakened his tenseigan. That being said, ponly a portion of the moon is hollow at best. Majority of it is undesturbed. There was a huge debate about this in Gwynblieddds blog on the last feats. Everybody pretty much agreed the moin isn't hollow.
 
@Reppuzan

Outlier? Dude pay attention. Boruto destroyed Momoshiki's rinnegan, the eye where he could absorb chakra and also lead to a major drop in his power. And Odama rasengan? he got one-shotted by this version of Rasengan, http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Parent_and_Child_Rasenga

Oh and I've found the planet splitter thing,
Naruto_200.jpg
 
We already discussed about these things many so times and we all dismissed it, there isn't anything that you can bring to upgrade them.
 
Also, Headlines in the Naruto databooks are hyperbole, Nothing in his actual description say that nir does his feats.

@Reppuzan, may i ask that you issue warnings to those who go off topic here? It is derailing the thread.
 
@Barry

It's not just the headlines:

"...she discovers Shikamaru's potential as a foundation of the next generation amidst a grueling battle, and decides to create a new ninja world with him."

"Forbidden power that can split worlds!" - Best feat is splitting the Shinju.

Light Fang runs at the speed of light - Storm Release not display any normal properties of light like going in a straight line.
 
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