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Naritaverse Feat

Asriel is in his backstory. Ashen One? Don't get me started. Honestly. Thanos not just shot multiple times, but also get caught by police once.
 
You guys only watched the anime huh? Guess I wasted my time here. Anyway an admin should have a look at this thread for it to go anywhere.
 
There are some at the bookstore in my neighborhood that I've been steadily reading through, but unfortunately the only Durarara book they're missing is the first one.
 
Sorry I haven't been as involved in the discussion!

I'm trying to find an admin who might help

Now, I haven't heard much in a while, so I was wondering if everyone hear wants to keep discussing as is and/or possibly poll/vote for the "At least 9-A, possibly 7-B" rating in the event the evaluation goes through succesfully along?
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
I'd be fine with a vote, but whatever the admin says would probably trump the result if they disagree.
Click to expand...
Didn't think of that; good point. Would everyone still want an admin to get involved?
 
I can contact an admin but does anyone have a good recommendation? It seems that they're all really busy and I don't know any of them
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
I asked Cal, he might respond, but I gotta go to bed.
Click to expand...
You didn't have to do that so I give thanks in abundance; THANK YOU!

I should go to bed too; Good Night!
 
I feel like possibly tier 7 would work fine, given that they're apparently supposed to be the pinnacle of the verse.
 
Alright cool. I probably won't be able to comment here tomorrow, but I'll see if I can (we should also wait for BALNK's potential rebuttal)

Night, everyone!
 
I don't think that we should conclude this just because a staff member has given the verdict, even though he has no clue about this verse........I had updated all the Baccano profiles and gave them their tiers by consulting with Rev (Who is the bureaucrat of most of the naritaverse wikis including Baccano at fandom) she is well aware of our tiering system and is fine with tier 9-A top tiers.
 
Also stop with the "Pinnacle of the verse" stuff. There are clear anti-feats for both Claire and Shizuo which shows that they are not unreachable.
 
I agree with BANLK, they aren't completely unreachable even if they're the best in the verse. Unless there are more feats that would put them this high, the fact that any other character can even come close to them should be enough to throw this out as an outlier.
 
1) I'll concede that they are not invulnerable or unreachable but from what I know/have seen most of the damage that Shizuo and Claire have taken is superficial (Shizuo getting shot and then walking to his friend across town for help, getting stabbed with a pen and has no reaction, etc.). Also, the only time I've heard of Claire taking damage was when he let himself get injured to keep a fight going

2) This maybe only one feat but I'm fairly certain that there are other characters and verses that have been heavily upgraded b/c of only 1 or 2 feats

3) Shizuo and Claire have been constantly depicted as holding back and never really going all out; less for Shizuo but especially for Claire, since it's on his page

4) In all honesty, I lack as much experience and knowledge of Naritaverse as most of you so forgive me if I'm over reaching but Ronny's feat seems valid along w/the W.O.G. statement. Maybe Rev can look at this if she can?
 
Also, I'm probably not gonna be available for the rest of the night and most of tommorrow; sorry if I took to long to post any of this

Good Night!
 
I'm willing to potentially concede to leave them at 9-A (though I still don't see the problem with a possibly higher), but I think that JnSte's suggestion of contacting Rev seems reasonable. If she still thinks 9-A is where they should be after hearing us out, then I'll concede the point.
 
@JnSteHar002

1) It is impossible to give even superficial damage if the tier gap is too high, also Shizuo has been damaged multiple times in the series so this is not a singular incident.

2) Rules and circumstances are different in different verses, so it is possible. (I upgraded magiverse to tier 1)

3) By holding back you mean Claire dodges stuff right? That is not AP related, he is just a great fighter.

4) Imo Ronny is the only godtier for baccano but we would have to disregard the WOG for it. I don't really remember but Rev had mentioned several naritaverse characters who are above Claire and Shizuo, also the WOG doesn't make much sense after reading some light novels for baccano and durarara.
 
There are 2 characters who exist that are stronger than that trio:

Hawkin, the sentient black hole who leaps instantly across the universe when he's bored

And the Mob Combatant, who could kill Hawkin by gently kicking him.

Side note, have we considered the possibility that these three are glass cannons?
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
There are 2 characters who exist that are stronger than that trio:
Hawkin, the sentient black hole who leaps instantly across the universe when he's bored

And the Mob Combatant, who could kill Hawkin by gently kicking him.

Side note, have we considered the possibility that these three are glass cannons?
Click to expand...
I am not talking about the WOG stuff (Also that interview with narita is vague as hell, there is no reliable source for all these claims), There are other characters excluding these two who are stronger than Claire, Ronny and Shizuo.
 
Well, I remember Hajime Shishizaki had beaten Shizuo in a fight back in highschool, and Izaya is terrified of him. Yahiro fought evenly against Shizuo for a long time until Shizu-chan got more serious and landed a good punch.

The (maybe omniscient) newspaper guy stated that the only people who could potentially kill Claire were Chane (which was later proven very wrong), Ronny (go figure), or Felix Walken (who Claire later fought and killed after fighting seriously for the first time)
 
Well even Simon has beaten teen Shizuo and iirc the original Felix Walken is still alive, he just lost the fight and sold his name to Claire. I was saying that there are characters (Hawking excluded) in Vamp who are stronger than Claire and Shizuo.
 
Ah, I see.

Yeah, at this point I don't have a need for them to be 7-B. I am still going to vouch for an at least 9-A or a possibly higher, because I feel like as an indexing website we should indicate if a peak hasn't been shown.
 
Well, I wrote a whole message and hit 'reply', at which point it promptly disappeared... Luckily I had 3/4ths of it copied, so I can rewrite the missing parts if need be. I'm writing this message partly to see if this reply shows up after posting, and a request for you to bear with me a little longer.

Edit: Great, this showed up...meaning I'm going to have to reconstruct the other one after all, I assume. Wikia decided to devour it, I guess.
 
Hi, Rev here. JnSteHar reached out to me on the Durarara!! Wiki (I administrate the other three Naritaverse wikis), and I've read through this thread a few times to try and get my bearings. As I told JNSteHar earlier I've never been able to quite wrap my head around how this wiki works, so I apologize for my ignorance when it comes to your terminology/ranking system.

On that note, I've visited your tier system and powerscaling articles since I especially didn't get the latter. I...still don't feel like I understand it, which is a bit of a problem since powerscaling is a a major topic of this conversation. I also tracked down the previous conversation I had with BANLK; it was on my CC message wall, and I'd called into question the reliability of the Naritaverse character ranking you see floating around on the Internet here and there. (Sorry for forgetting about your synchronization question, BANLK).

―I linked to that because the conversation there does seem relevant to this; in fact, BANLK was surely thinking of it when he said, "there is no reliable source for all these claims." I'd also like to point out that Hariyama-san, Center of the World, which Mob Combatant is from, is not a part of the Naritaverse.

JnSteHar told me the main issue is as follows (quoting from his message on the Drrr!! Wiki):

The main issue is the powerscaling and the outlier possibility as it's Ronny's feat and it makes sense for him but becomes an issue when said feat powerscales to Claire and Shizuo (and possibly others)

I'll be honest, without your wiki glossary this thread would have been that much more difficult to parse--and I'm still not sure I understand how exactly tier rankings (which have been called into question, I get that) are calculated. My input here is an outsider's input; hopefully someone can translate it into your lingo.

So...you guys are talking about whether it'an "outlier for the verse," and I guess that's because your tiering system depends on relativity, but I really don't understand why this needs to affect Claire and Shizuo's rankings in the first place. I mean, I do in that you're assessing characters through comparison, but I don't really see the point.

I mean, first of all, why factor in Word of God? Not only are those lists not reliable, shouldn't your assessments depend solely on what is shown in canon? Ronny, Claire, and Shizuo have never interacted with each other/fought in canon, so I can see why that makes things more difficult for you, but it seems to me a few of you were trying to rationalize this via a belief that Ronny, Claire, and Shizuo can "stalemate" each other based off that dubious interview.

My advice is only use what you are told and shown in canon. Of course, I recognize your other problem--we don't see Ronny use his powers very often in canon, and he certainly hasn't used them to their fullest extent. You have him classed as 9-C right now, and I assume that's based on what has been shown in canon...

Remember: Ronny is a formerly complete homunculus who gave up his ability to 'know' the future in order to leave his flask (i.e. in giving up the future, he went from complete to formerly complete. As a complete homunculus, he was largely indistinct from the universe itself. He was that dimension. (Note: even when he was inside the flask, he only had knowledge of his own dimension, not others).

He is no longer totally omniscient, but he's...somewhat omnipotent? He admittedly does say in Vol 22, "I wouldn't say I'm omniscient or omnipotent," but as for how truthful or accurate that is... Mm, I'd say he's got to be close enough to omnipotent. I'll revisit Vol 22 some more a few paragraphs from now.

Don't forget, Ronny deliberately undersells/unterulitizes his powers, these days. Aside from granting wishes when he is summoned, he normally only uses his powers for the Martillo Family's sake. For 'minor parlor tricks', as it were.

Examples of his powers in action: teleportation over small and great distances (Egypt to the North Pole, New York to Alcatraz); telepathy; matter manipulation (he repairs the broken bottle in Vol 8 with but a thought); he is also exempt from the mental restraints he places on the complete immortals. When he gives Elmer examples of powers he could bestow upon him, those powers include mind control, stopping time, and the ability to see things over far distances.

I'll also highlight this line from his origin story, back when he was still inside his flask: "I could distort the physical phenomena of this world, and just as easily destroy this very planet beneath your feet. Of course, I wouldn't carry out such a useless actio." Note that while his origin story has a lot of parody and 4th-wall-breaking elements, it does generally appear to be canon. It's even referenced in Vol 22.

(He also describes his powers as "warping the laws of physics" in the origin story when he acknowledges that the people who created him are the only ones his powers do not work on.)

Let's quote a bit more from Vol 22, now: "By giving up his knowledge of the future and some of his mental capacity, he cast his new form into a specifc point of the universe that was his true form." And unlike the other 'embodiments of the universe', Ronny kept his "ability to interfere with [others and] the world" at the expense of his knowledge of the future.

I...just don't see the poinot of all this. At the very least, I think it's a waste of time trying to use a comparison-bsaed system for ranking Ronny verus Claire and Shizuo. Claire and Shizuo are pinnacles of humanity, while Ronny...is more human than form than by nature. You're better off comparing Claire and Shizuo to other humans more often than not. Humans and 'ordinary' homunculi, that is, because Ronny is on a totally different level to, say, Christopher as well.

If you weren't factoring in, uh, Ronny's powers, then maybe I could see a comparison - but I sill don't see the point. We'll probably never see any of those characters face off, and that's fine; Narita never intended them to. (If Claire and Ronny were to fight, I expect Ronny would purposefully limit himself for the sake of entertainment). (Firo does opine that Claire is "in the same class as Ronny as someone he never wanted to face as an enemy" in Vol 18, but Firo doesn't know about Ronny's powers in 1935, mind you. Speaking of Firo, Claire did once say Firo is "tough to beat when he gets serious" and claimed that Firo could potentially give him some trouble... take that as you will.)

I say you're better off evaluating Ronny on his own terms, and leave the smaller fry to duke it out.

"Okay, Rev, so what tier do you think Ronny is?" ...is what you're probably asking, but I can't give you a terribly confident answer. His statement in his origin story could put him at 5-B alone, though one could point out that we don't know if he's still capable of that as an incomplete homunculus. I don't see a reason why he wouldn't be, but that's more due to canon being cagey that anything else.

The whole fun of Ronny is that he's a highly powerful being who purposefuly limits himself for the fun of it, so...going off what canon shows you and not what it tells you means you're probably underestimating/under-evaluating what he can actually do.

As for Claire and Shizuo... I'm more familiar with Baccano! than Durarara!!, but I think that 9-A is probably still fine for both of them? I can consult with the other Drrr!! Wiki contributors on this, in any case. I can give them both more thought, though.

Oh, and regarding your discussion on the original Felix Walken, who Claire most certainly did not kill: I'm pretty sure Volume 8 retconned Volume 4 re: the name acquisition. In vol 4, Claire says he was negotiating directly with Old Felix about buying the name (it's not implied they had a fight) when the Runoratas called. However, in Volume 8, Old Felix asks Claire where he got the 'Felix Walken' name, and Claire says he bought it from a woman in her thirties.

TL;DR Whether the retcon was deliberate or simple forgetfulness, Vol 8 states he didn't get his name directly from Felix after all. Also: in Vol 7, Claire claimes that Christopher is the third strongest person he's met, the former Felix is the second, and Claire himself is the strongest. Christopher lands a hit on Claire during their fight in Vol 7 (and yeah, Claire says that if Christopher had had proper weapons, he "might've broken out in a cold sweat, at least."

In volume 8, the former Felix also intercepts Claire when he's chasing after Spike - he grabs Claire's leg and holds him upside-down in the air. Claire is genuinely impressed. I assume by "omniscient newspaper guy" you were thinking of the President of the Daily Days; he's just a human who knows a lot as far as we know. He is the company of an information brokerage after all. Anyway, I'll have to find the passage you're referring to, but you did remind me of his Vol 7 line, "All right, this has gotten good: Not only has the notorious Vino joined in, but the 'vampire' Christopher Shaldred is participating… Those two, squaring off— Or, no, if you include Ronny Schiatto from the Martillos, it's a three-way standoff." ...Though, I wouldn't view that line with any especial significance.

In any case, sorry for the length/potential incoherency and for my ignorance/bafflement when it comes to this wiki. I'm just here to discuss canon; I'll leave it to you to figure out how to best integrate it into your system. I think I've reconstructed this comment to what it was before FANDOM devoured it; you best believe I am copy-pasting this before clicking 'reply'. (And thanks for reminding me that I have not touched the former Felix's B! Wiki article, which is possibly in an awful state. I should move that up my priority list.. heck, it's 10 PM, maybe I'll whack at it for an hour or two tonight.)

Edit: (It's midnight so this is the last I'm going to dwell on this for tonight, but I should've pointed out that the Volume 8 scene with former Felix and Claire does raise a question or two about his Vol 7 assertation that the former Felix is the second-strongest person he's ever seen. One could technically suggest that Claire was talking about the thirty-year-old dame in Vol 7, but...

...I find it more likely that Narita wrote Vol 7 with Vol 4 in mind, but forgot that Claire and Felix met by the time he started writing Vol 8. He himself admits he forgot a few things in the afterword for Vol 8, and it's supported by the fact that there was a two-year gap between Vols 7 and 8 and only one year between Vols 4 and 7. So...yeah...

Nearly midnight, now. Sorry for the separate message; I would have edited this into the previous one, but FANDOM is being especially uncooperative tonight and will not let me.)
 
Based on everything that's been said, I am conceding to keep the profiles as they are and ending this thread. If everyone is okay, I'll close this by tomorrow evening; if someone still wants to discuss, I can keep this open.

Thanks for everything guys!
 
@Rev Thanks again! And sorry for the trouble.

@JnSteHar002 Keep this thread open, We can maybe upgrade Ronny to "At least 9-C, possibly 5-B) based on the new information.
 
Thank you so much, Rev!

Alright, I'll bow out at this point. It seems I was mistaken on a number of things, so apologies for the misinformation.
 
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