N.Y.S.S.S.T Round one (Zabuza vs Miyamoto.)

[Zaratthustra]

That's in CRT not on the Musashi profile yet. We talked and debate what's on the profile.

Even if Musashi get's his upgrades for speed. It's still the first KEY that will fight Zabuza since that's the key the OP stated.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Where have you seen jumping from a key to another ? (Excluding Vivec which it's something only for him).
Usually to jump from a key to another it's need a Transformation of that calliber.

Musashi doesn't have a Transformation, doesn't have stat amp, doesn't have higher speed on the second key. He has nothing.

Appeal to Tradition fallacy

Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't. What does the rule say?

 

[BakiHanma18]

That's in CRT not on the Musashi profile yet. We talked and debate what's on the profile.
Even if Musashi get's his upgrades for speed. It's still the first KEY that will fight Zabuza since that's the key the OP stated.

The results will be null if the outcome flies in the face of the outcome of the CRT And Anon is literally about to bring up that they should be the same key in the P&A CRT, making it so that Musashi has a prety big speed amp

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Found it. Twas you and Amlad back at the end of Nov where he brought up the stats. Apparently the difference is that Full Power is him becoming the sword and ditching the physical swords he uses in his first key which amps his dura from being a glass Canon to taking hits from DB Baki. Correct me if I am wrong but how is this not a transformation? I can agree with them being separate keys but this isn't him putting forth more effort, it's him amping his physicals (less effort isn't nerfing your durability entire tiers) and is only done against Baki and Yujiro while they were using Demon Back and against no one else. From what I read on that thread, it isn't something he can just do.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I can't continue anymore with you, third time when I get frustrated on wiki since I made an accout.

You just can't understand basic rules. 1. You can't blitz without a stat amp in a Equalized Match. 2. You can't switch keys without a big and notable Transformation. 3. If there are so many CRTs like the one where Musashi had abilities added, now speed then why continue to hold this match when he should be diqualified for gettting abilites mid-fight and tiers. 4. OP stated it's first Key Musashi, not second. 5. Don't bring arguments for things that are not in a profile.

Musashi can pregoc all he want's even Shunshin but he it doesn't matter if he can't react to a speed that will blitz.

You bring no scans in over 5 hours of debating.

Musashi has no chance of winning here. Zabuza has the entire advantage and versatality on his part.

I'll let others continue this meaningless fight.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Found it. Twas you and Amlad back at the end of Nov where he brought up the stats. Apparently the difference is that Full Power is him becoming the sword and ditching the physical swords he uses in his first key which amps his dura from being a glass Canon to taking hits from DB Baki. Correct me if I am wrong but how is this not a transformation? I can agree with them being separate keys but this isn't him putting forth more effort, it's him amping his physicals (less effort isn't nerfing your durability entire tiers) and is only done against Baki and Yujiro while they were using Demon Back and against no one else. From what I read on that thread, it isn't something he can just do.

I think that may be outdated, because we specifically all agreed his all of his stats don't amp. His SS amps due to ditching swords that can't properly project his strength to his apparitions which can handle all of his power. His speed amps from Baki level to Yujiro level by virtue of actually trying, but his durability doesn't change, as his physical body doesn't get any stronger. As for why it isnt a transformation, all he does is use better "swords" and try more.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

But if he isn't transforming or doing anything, his max speed is what gets equalised. Him using lower speed against Baki than Yujiro isn't an amp, it's him flexing on Baki.

 

[BakiHanma18]

I can't continue anymore with you, third time when I get frustrated on wiki since I made an accout.
You just can't understand basic rules. 1. You can't blitz without a stat amp in a Equalized Match. 2. You can't switch keys without a big and notable Transformation. 3. If there are so many CRTs like the one where Musashi had abilities added, now speed then why continue to hold this match when he should be diqualified for gettting abilites mid-fight and tiers. 4. OP stated it's first Key Musashi, not second. 5. Don't bring arguments for things that are not in a profile.

Musashi can pregoc all he want's even Shunshin but he it doesn't matter if he can't react to a speed that will blitz.

You bring no scans in over 5 hours of debating.

Musashi has no chance of winning here. Zabuza has the entire advantage and versatality on his part.

I'll let others continue this meaningless fight.

It's bound to happen in a debate, just try to remember that nothing here is personal.

1) Already said the key switch would amp speed 2) I'd like some proof 3) Thats not how this works. The match is put on hold until the CRTs are done, and if the match is still valid, we continue. If not, we don't. 4) Still don't see why he can't switch keys to Full Power, its not like its a transformation, he literally just tries. 5) I will, and I will continue to do so to prevent this match from having to be taken down.

Nobody has gotten back to me with the sight scans, but I'm literally the only person who's posted scans so far lol

You haven't proven that amongst many other things... rip

K bye

 

[BakiHanma18]

But if he isn't transforming or doing anything, his max speed is what gets equalised. Him using lower speed against Baki than Yujiro isn't an amp, it's him flexing on Baki.

OHHHHHH I see what you're saying! He was deliberately going slower against Baki! Okay, okay I'm understanding. In that case, his best shot here would be to precog Zabuza before he amps. I can post the scan of that again if you didn't see it farther up in this thread

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

So I suppose Musashi is like Yhwach and Sasaki now? You guys are '''heavily''' overestimating Musashi's precognition to the point where it can be considered wank.

 

[BakiHanma18]

So I suppose Musashi is like Yhwach and Sasaki now? You guys are heavily overestimating Musashi's precognition to the point where it can be considered wank.

No, Yhwach literally sees all futures like grains of sand. Sasaki RoR just has Analytical Prediction. Musashi reads minds

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Regardless you're acting as if Musashi is gonna see every action Zabuza is going to do, which isn't the case. That's the equivalent of me saying that Luffy can now read everything his opponent does or will do just because he was thought reading and future sight. Btw I have serious doubts on his precog working on a clone that lacks organs to begin with.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Regardless you're acting as if Musashi is gonna see every action Zabuza is going to do, which isn't the case. That's the equivalent of me saying that Luffy can now read everything his opponent does or will do just because he was thought reading and future sight. Btw I have serious doubts on his precog working on a clone that lacks organs to begin with.

1) If he's reading his mind, what can Zabuza do that doesn't get him countered almost immediately?

2) We already agreed it wouldn't, but Musashi has an Analytical Prediction type precog with his eyes that would be able to precog the handsigns. This was all already mentioned

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

1: Fight normally, Musashi gets tagged all the time in his own verse despite his precog. **** Pickle even tagged Musashi a handful of times himself, and Pickle isn't exactly Mr.Iron Fist or anything. To say that Musashi is gonna evade literally everything is 100% wank.


2: Could you post scans of his precog? One that's preferably from the manga itself as opposed to the anime unless it's confirmed to be canon.

 

[BakiHanma18]

1: Fight normally, Musashi gets tagged all the time in his own verse despite his precog. **** Pickle even tagged Musashi a handful of times himself, and Pickle isn't exactly Mr.Iron Fist or anything. To say that Musashi is gonna evade literally everything is 100% wank.

2: Could you post scans of his precog? One that's preferably from the manga itself as opposed to the anime unless it's confirmed to be canon.

Except he has openly admitted several times that he lets people hit him to learn about how the people of the future fight. The only 2 times he's actively trying to not get hit is against Yujiro, who is faster than him, and Baki's Cockroach Tackle, who's acceleration has been calculated to be 16,800,000 mph/ms/s, so no, not wank. Baki's Jab shows us and Motobe Izou confirms it

The telepathy precog or the sight precog? I've been waiting all night for scans of the sight precog with no response, but telepathy I can do

 

[BakiHanma18]

9:00 Jab hitting Musashi https://youtu.be/ivM9DEjhQX0
1:40 Musashi talks about how he could've dodged it and at 5:00, Musashi uses his precog telepathy to stop Jab before the punch is thrown https://youtu.be/xC9erBHOrgg

^ Telepathy precog

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Satellite internet mate, that won't work for me hence why I asked scans from the manga.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Satellite internet mate, that won't work for me hence why I asked scans from the manga.

Ahhh sorry, I misunderstood. One sec

 

[BakiHanma18]

It's not as comprehensive as the vid, but this is pretty good http://************.com/chapter/baki_dou/chapter_31

please don't hesitate to ask if you've got any questions

 

[Jasonsith]

Just to comment:

Musashi Miyamoto (Baki) in here was deemed able to defeat Hyde who has light speed - in a speed unrestricted match.

MM's precog works on reading minds (precog by telepathy). Since Naruto shadow clones have their own minds as stated above, the minds of the clones can be read afaik.

So the question is how good MM is fighting against multiple enemies who has similar strength as he is. (Not just an army of unmatched cops, but like several Baki Hanma who can spam clones of Baki Hanma.)

 

[Rocker1189]

from what I can tell it was assumed that speed was equalized, there is 0 way that musashi can outpace a light speed character.

They have minds of course but they do not have brain waves or anything since they ar emade up of weird material.

 

[00potato]

Other debates shouldn't be used as evidence. They aren't canon to any character and the results could have been for many reasons besides 100% accuracy (which isn't really even possible.)

 

[00potato]

Bump.

 

[Rocker1189]

pretty sure Zabuza has more than enough votes now. he had 6 like half way up.

 

[Jasonsith]

Well Zabuza still has the numbers advantage even if speed was equalised and Musashi had his precognition.

Zabuza for my reasons and any reasons above-mentioned

 

[00potato]

I guess Zabuza moves on. I will leave this here in case anyone wants to argue more but clones+ Aoe are a rough combo.

 

[KGiffoni]

I guess Zabuza moves on. I will leave this here in case anyone wants to argue more but clones+ Aoe are a rough combo.

True. Specially against someone who can one-shot you.

 

[Antydeth]

Zabuza takes this. Maybe I would've leaned more towards Musashi, but his durability is just too low for this kind of battle. He has to tank at least several hits before he can figure out a way to beat Zabuza.