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Mythology Feats and Cosmology
- Thread starter Malomtek
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Agnaa
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You still haven't cleared up the issues with how it should be deleted (quoted below). AND you haven't gotten the 1-A justification approved by an expert. I see no reason why the Jade Emperor profile could be applied now.
Sera EX said:
Udlmaster
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>You still haven't cleared up the issues with how it should be deleted (quoted below).
I don't agree with it believe deleted full stop, I don't think any Mythology pages should be under any (reasonable) circumstances.
>AND you haven't gotten the 1-A justification approved by an expert. I see no reason why the Jade Emperor profile could be applied now.
Everyone has been asked to weight on the profile and no one hasn't brought up an issue with the profile's justifications.
I don't agree with it believe deleted full stop, I don't think any Mythology pages should be under any (reasonable) circumstances.
>AND you haven't gotten the 1-A justification approved by an expert. I see no reason why the Jade Emperor profile could be applied now.
Everyone has been asked to weight on the profile and no one hasn't brought up an issue with the profile's justifications.
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I don't agree with it believe deleted full stop, I don't think any Mythology pages should be under any (reasonable) circumstances.
You don't agree, but other people don't agree with you. Guess we're at an impasse then.
Everyone has been asked to weight on the profile and no one hasn't brought up an issue with the profile's justifications.
Having people not evaluate your 1-A justifications doesn't mean they're automatically accepted. Ask Ergenverse supporters. Be patient.
You don't agree, but other people don't agree with you. Guess we're at an impasse then.
Everyone has been asked to weight on the profile and no one hasn't brought up an issue with the profile's justifications.
Having people not evaluate your 1-A justifications doesn't mean they're automatically accepted. Ask Ergenverse supporters. Be patient.
Udlmaster
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>You don't agree, but other people don't agree with you. Guess we're at an impasse then.
I believe the people who want the Mythology profiles outweighs the number who don't.
>Having people not evaluate your 1-A justifications doesn't mean they're automatically accepted. Ask Ergenverse supporters. Be patient.
I don't mind waiting, however, this issue just seems like it's being thrown between multiple admins and is just going to not be resolved.
I believe the people who want the Mythology profiles outweighs the number who don't.
>Having people not evaluate your 1-A justifications doesn't mean they're automatically accepted. Ask Ergenverse supporters. Be patient.
I don't mind waiting, however, this issue just seems like it's being thrown between multiple admins and is just going to not be resolved.
Agnaa
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I believe the people who want the Mythology profiles outweighs the number who don't.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. There's a specific issue with the Jade Emperor profile which doesn't apply to any other Mythology profile we feature, and I quoted that specific issue.
I don't mind waiting, however, this issue just seems like it's being thrown between multiple admins and is just going to not be resolved.
I'm pretty sure Zaratthustra had to wait months for his 1-A cosmology blogs to be seriously considered by admins, and even then it was initially by Wokistan, not one of the traditional "1-A experts". You don't get it automatically accepted because you saw no progress after 3 days.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. There's a specific issue with the Jade Emperor profile which doesn't apply to any other Mythology profile we feature, and I quoted that specific issue.
I don't mind waiting, however, this issue just seems like it's being thrown between multiple admins and is just going to not be resolved.
I'm pretty sure Zaratthustra had to wait months for his 1-A cosmology blogs to be seriously considered by admins, and even then it was initially by Wokistan, not one of the traditional "1-A experts". You don't get it automatically accepted because you saw no progress after 3 days.
Udlmaster
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>Sorry if I wasn't clear. There's a specific issue with the Jade Emperor profile which doesn't apply to any other Mythology profile we feature, and I quoted that specific issue.
And I've already said multiple times that I haven't used any religious aspects for the profile, only the philosophical aspects, which is why the issue doesn't apply.
>You don't get it automatically accepted because you saw no progress after 3 days.
Where did I say it should automatically get accepted? And waiting three months seems like an inordinate amount of time for people to take a look at something to see if it is logical.
If you don't get what I'm saying, I'm saying that it seems like people were intentionally wasting time.
And I've already said multiple times that I haven't used any religious aspects for the profile, only the philosophical aspects, which is why the issue doesn't apply.
>You don't get it automatically accepted because you saw no progress after 3 days.
Where did I say it should automatically get accepted? And waiting three months seems like an inordinate amount of time for people to take a look at something to see if it is logical.
If you don't get what I'm saying, I'm saying that it seems like people were intentionally wasting time.
Agnaa
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And I've already said multiple times that I haven't used any religious aspects for the profile, only the philosophical aspects, which is why the issue doesn't apply.
I understand that, and the part I quoted from Sera acknowledges that. It's still an issue. I think people would still take issue with using the mythological Jesus from the Easter Bunny and Christmas myths, even if no text from The Bible is used. (I understand if this analogy isn't perfectly reflective of the Jade Emperor, that's just because there's no good analogies for it in Judeo-Christian mythology, but if there was, I would take issue with its inclusion).
Where did I say it should automatically get accepted?
You asked if it could be applied. That's asking for (or assuming) acceptance, unless you think revisions get applied without being accepted???
And waiting three months seems like an inordinate amount of time for people to take a look at something to see if it is logical.
Certain feats taking eternities to get looked at does indeed suck.
I understand that, and the part I quoted from Sera acknowledges that. It's still an issue. I think people would still take issue with using the mythological Jesus from the Easter Bunny and Christmas myths, even if no text from The Bible is used. (I understand if this analogy isn't perfectly reflective of the Jade Emperor, that's just because there's no good analogies for it in Judeo-Christian mythology, but if there was, I would take issue with its inclusion).
Where did I say it should automatically get accepted?
You asked if it could be applied. That's asking for (or assuming) acceptance, unless you think revisions get applied without being accepted???
And waiting three months seems like an inordinate amount of time for people to take a look at something to see if it is logical.
Certain feats taking eternities to get looked at does indeed suck.
Udlmaster
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>I think people would still take issue with using the mythological Jesus from the Easter Bunny and Christmas myths
To which the argument sends the precedent that even if it is from another work that because it shares the same name or is loosely related then they're not allowed to be used.
So, all of SMT must go because they literally pull from and add detail which directly ties them to the real life versions.
"But SMT is a fictional verse so it doesn't count"
Doesn't matter, according to the current logic you're using if there is any connection to the character then the profile must go.
The Jade Emperor profile used has a connection but no actual religious feats/info used, SMT has a connect but no actual religious feats/info used. Do you see how this falls apart?
So, most of the wiki is gone with this logic.
>You asked if it could be applied.
So you agree I didn't expect it to be automatically accepted because I asked if it would be, meaning there's still a process of events, meaning it's not automatic.
>Thought it was only rejected by me.
From what I thought was due in course to your distaste for Mythology existing on the wiki and not with the profile specifically.
To which the argument sends the precedent that even if it is from another work that because it shares the same name or is loosely related then they're not allowed to be used.
So, all of SMT must go because they literally pull from and add detail which directly ties them to the real life versions.
"But SMT is a fictional verse so it doesn't count"
Doesn't matter, according to the current logic you're using if there is any connection to the character then the profile must go.
The Jade Emperor profile used has a connection but no actual religious feats/info used, SMT has a connect but no actual religious feats/info used. Do you see how this falls apart?
So, most of the wiki is gone with this logic.
>You asked if it could be applied.
So you agree I didn't expect it to be automatically accepted because I asked if it would be, meaning there's still a process of events, meaning it's not automatic.
>Thought it was only rejected by me.
From what I thought was due in course to your distaste for Mythology existing on the wiki and not with the profile specifically.
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Axing the jade emperor
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Can we stop derailing this thread and make a seperate staff only (as well as a few staff approved non staff) thread so they can debate what mythology to have and what mythology not to have for this wiki
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@Udl To which the argument sends the precedent that even if it is from another work that because it shares the same name or is loosely related then they're not allowed to be used.
So, all of SMT must go because they literally pull from and add detail which directly ties them to the real life versions.
No, it's not about sharing the same name. It's about being mythology that was taken somewhat seriously and shares characters with a currently active religion.
Characters from SMT are not mythology.
Doesn't matter, according to the current logic you're using if there is any connection to the character then the profile must go.
The Jade Emperor profile used has a connection but no actual religious feats/info used, SMT has a connect but no actual religious feats/info used. Do you see how this falls apart?
You misunderstand my logic.
So you agree I didn't expect it to be automatically accepted because I asked if it would be, meaning there's still a process of events, meaning it's not automatic.
Yep, my bad. You didn't want it automatically accepted, you only wanted an extraordinarily high rating to be added without it being accepted. I'll try to use better language next time so you don't have to nitpick my words.
Agreed to...?
I was responding to Sera, sorry if that was unclear.
So, all of SMT must go because they literally pull from and add detail which directly ties them to the real life versions.
No, it's not about sharing the same name. It's about being mythology that was taken somewhat seriously and shares characters with a currently active religion.
Characters from SMT are not mythology.
Doesn't matter, according to the current logic you're using if there is any connection to the character then the profile must go.
The Jade Emperor profile used has a connection but no actual religious feats/info used, SMT has a connect but no actual religious feats/info used. Do you see how this falls apart?
You misunderstand my logic.
So you agree I didn't expect it to be automatically accepted because I asked if it would be, meaning there's still a process of events, meaning it's not automatic.
Yep, my bad. You didn't want it automatically accepted, you only wanted an extraordinarily high rating to be added without it being accepted. I'll try to use better language next time so you don't have to nitpick my words.
Agreed to...?
I was responding to Sera, sorry if that was unclear.
Udlmaster
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>No, it's not about sharing the same name. It's about being mythology that was taken somewhat seriously and shares characters with a currently active religion.
Sharing characters require them to often share names, Jade Emperor from Mythology shares name with Jade Emperor from Daoist philosophy.
>Characters from SMT are not mythology.
They directly tie to Mythology, they pull from Mythology, they give direct facts from the religions and Mythology, they take the names from Religions etc.
Also, Mythology and "fictional stories" are no different in any respect.
>Yep, my bad. You didn't want it automatically accepted, you only wanted an extraordinarily high rating to be added without it being accepted.
Me saying "can this be added" is asking for approval/acceptance, the only way I would have done it without approval would have been to go on ahead, which I didn't, I asked.
Sharing characters require them to often share names, Jade Emperor from Mythology shares name with Jade Emperor from Daoist philosophy.
>Characters from SMT are not mythology.
They directly tie to Mythology, they pull from Mythology, they give direct facts from the religions and Mythology, they take the names from Religions etc.
Also, Mythology and "fictional stories" are no different in any respect.
>Yep, my bad. You didn't want it automatically accepted, you only wanted an extraordinarily high rating to be added without it being accepted.
Me saying "can this be added" is asking for approval/acceptance, the only way I would have done it without approval would have been to go on ahead, which I didn't, I asked.
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Sharing characters require them to often share names, Jade Emperor from Mythology shares name with Jade Emperor from Daoist philosophy.
I'm pretty sure this is true.
They directly tie to Mythology, they pull from Mythology, they give direct facts from the religions and Mythology, they take the names from Religions etc.
They pull things from mythology but they are not mythology.
Also, Mythology and "fictional stories" are no different in any respect.
I think they are different.
Me saying "can this be added" is asking for approval/acceptance, the only way I would have done it without approval would have been to go on ahead, which I didn't, I asked.
Fair enough.
I'm pretty sure this is true.
They directly tie to Mythology, they pull from Mythology, they give direct facts from the religions and Mythology, they take the names from Religions etc.
They pull things from mythology but they are not mythology.
Also, Mythology and "fictional stories" are no different in any respect.
I think they are different.
Me saying "can this be added" is asking for approval/acceptance, the only way I would have done it without approval would have been to go on ahead, which I didn't, I asked.
Fair enough.
Agnaa
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They both have those qualities but that does not make them the exact same thing.
Even religions that are currently widely followed hold all those qualities, yet we wouldn't say
Even religions that are currently widely followed hold all those qualities, yet we wouldn't say
| Religion and fictional stories are no different in any respect. |
Agnaa
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Yes, I consider Star Wars a fictional story.
To hopefully stop us from going down this rabbit hole, I consider religion/mythology/fictional stories different through cultural context, rather than through textual substance.
To hopefully stop us from going down this rabbit hole, I consider religion/mythology/fictional stories different through cultural context, rather than through textual substance.
Udlmaster
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However, Jediism, which is a real life religious sect. Do you now see how they are literally the same thing?Agnaa said:
Culture behind them is totally irrelevant to these purposes, because something having culture =\= being used on a scaling website.
I'm sure Star Wars has had a bigger impact on Western Culture than Daoism has, Will you now Star Wars to be banned from the site due to greater cultural impact and Jediism being a real life modern religion.
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Jediism is a mock religion with 10 followers. We ban religions with large amounts of followers and are widely followed today, which includes shenism.
Star Wars is a fictional story, and discussing it isn't as controversial and won't get as heated of arguments as discussing a widely practiced religion.
Star Wars is a fictional story, and discussing it isn't as controversial and won't get as heated of arguments as discussing a widely practiced religion.
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Please read the Mythology page. Jediism is allowed because it doesn't have a significant quantity of modern day followers, and many of those that exist are agnostic.
Culture behind them is relevant to these purposes, which is why we don't have profiles for the Christian God.
Being allowed on the site isn't really related to how much impact a thing has on Western Culture. The Mythology page already explains certain criteria for why mythology can be disallowed.
Also, can you please try to either argue within the current rules or argue to change the rules? Because it really seems like the arguments you're pushing for would allow Christianity/Buddhism/etc. to get profiles, but you don't seem to be changing the rules towards that.
Culture behind them is relevant to these purposes, which is why we don't have profiles for the Christian God.
Being allowed on the site isn't really related to how much impact a thing has on Western Culture. The Mythology page already explains certain criteria for why mythology can be disallowed.
Also, can you please try to either argue within the current rules or argue to change the rules? Because it really seems like the arguments you're pushing for would allow Christianity/Buddhism/etc. to get profiles, but you don't seem to be changing the rules towards that.
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We don't have profiles for YHWH cause he is from an active religion, simple as that. That's pretty much the only standard we should apply, using common sense as the denominator, if we're going to go down that rabbit hole.
There's no reason to, though.
There's no reason to, though.
Agnaa
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@Kep And the question now is, should a character from an active religion be allowed to have a profile if only folklore/mythology is considered, and not quotes from the religious text itself?
I think it shouldn't since it still presents the exact same issues.
I think it shouldn't since it still presents the exact same issues.
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I don't necessarily disagree with you either.
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Why is Pan Gu only low 2C though?
Udlmaster
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>Agnaa
However, now Agnaa you've had to disregard your previous definition for the default one on the Mythology page, your definition was the only way you could say that the Jade Emperor profile itself shouldn't be around due to culture, which the Mythology definition doesn't use, and merely requires that of Religious text is to be used that that Religion be virtually dead.
So, now that you've moved onto the Mythology definition and dropped the cultural one, you cannot fault the profile because it fits within that definition, because it doesn't use Religion.
However, now Agnaa you've had to disregard your previous definition for the default one on the Mythology page, your definition was the only way you could say that the Jade Emperor profile itself shouldn't be around due to culture, which the Mythology definition doesn't use, and merely requires that of Religious text is to be used that that Religion be virtually dead.
So, now that you've moved onto the Mythology definition and dropped the cultural one, you cannot fault the profile because it fits within that definition, because it doesn't use Religion.
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I suppose that strictly basing it on what was said in Journey to the West might be an idea, but the profile would still be too easily confused with actual religious scripture by our visitors. Sorry.
Udlmaster
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I mean, to use SMT as a scapegoat again, I'm sure initially people were confused that YHVH from there was the realm YHVH.Antvasima said:
Also, one can place a note saying that The Jade Emperor isn't using Religious text on his profile and therefore isn't the same as the Religious figure.
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Pan Gu was formed when the world was nondual. He was the one who split it into Yin and Yang with his legendary axe. Creating duality.
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"Long, long ago—not in a land before time, but a time before land—there was nothing in the universe except an enormous egg-shaped entity.
Inside the "egg," the opposite forces of yin and yang were all scrambled; it was a complete mess. But over time, the interactions between various substances and energies eventually conceived a being—a shaggy, horned giant named Pan Gu."
Inside the "egg," the opposite forces of yin and yang were all scrambled; it was a complete mess. But over time, the interactions between various substances and energies eventually conceived a being—a shaggy, horned giant named Pan Gu."
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It is very hard to mistake the Shin Megami Tensei YHVH character for the original religious figure, but perhaps we should rename the page to "YHVH (Shin Megami Tensei)" instead.
The Jade Emperor would be much easier to confuse for the original article.
You are not going to get this profile passed no matter how much you bother me and the others about it, so I would appreciate if you please permanently drop the subject and stop wasting our time and energy. Thank you.
The Jade Emperor would be much easier to confuse for the original article.
You are not going to get this profile passed no matter how much you bother me and the others about it, so I would appreciate if you please permanently drop the subject and stop wasting our time and energy. Thank you.
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Pan Gu is just a mythological figure though.
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