Mythology Feats and Cosmology

[Udlmaster]

Your answer to a serious question is a meme. Really.
Also, in now way is the most devoted DB fan even CLOSE to the devout christian,muslim,jew,hindu,buddhist,etc

Said "serious" question relates to an unquantifiable, unmeasurable and entirely subjective emotion to which I'm supposed to compare?

Do you wish to re-evaluate your question now?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Can we like not Argue over if people like Goku over God? Thats their opinion that they believe in. We should drop this.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I'll try to drop it, I was just responding to uldmaster who said nobody will care if we have religious figures on the site

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Blue and Sera. Udlmaster, please just learn to accept a "no" without being overly argumentative about it. It is very tiresome for others to deal with.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Basically in short, yes, religious figures are far more sensitive and would cause far more controversy on this wiki than ANY fandom. We should drop this

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. Let's drop the subject.

 

[Udlmaster]

I agree with Blue and Sera. Udlmaster, please just learn to accept a "no" without being overly argumentative about it. It is very tiresome for others to deal with.

I'm debating them, if they cannot substaniate their argument then their point should not be used if it cannot hold up to scruitiny.

 

[Udlmaster]

>No fandom will be willing to die on the battlefield for Omnipotent Goku. Many religious groups would be willing to do that right now if they think their religion is in danger

You actually have no idea of the types of arguments are made on Facebook debate groups then.

>No fandom goes to the length of having certain sayings you say every time you say the name of a respected character in X fandom.

Can you put this in comprehensive English?

>No fandom respects their work so much they have limits on how they deal with it. What? Do you mean something like "Profile locked"? Interesting that. Or maybe the way that this wiki respects their own work on tier 1-As that they have limits to deal with it such as it requiring someone with a green name to accept?

>Religious groups have rules where you can PUT their holy book, let alone touching it with a cheeto stained hand

Religion the Rulebook.

 

[Antvasima]

No, you are exhausting them in a war of attrition. If the staff (and honorary staff in Agnaa's case) repeatedly reject your suggestion, and give thorough arguments for it, you are required to back off according to the wiki standards, but you just keep pushing until everybody get sick and tired of this topic, and you won't get it accepted anyway.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

This thread is getting derailed too much, should we close this because this isn't revising mythology and is now a debate about religious profiles on this wiki.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I second that

 

[Udlmaster]

>repeatedly reject your suggestion, and give thorough arguments for it, you are required to back off according to the wiki standards

The Precedent of which is if a Staff member gives totally pitiful arguments which are able to be refuted one has to accept them because Staff member.

Objectively an argument from Authority, which is apart of the Wiki standards.

> but you just keep pushing until everybody get sick and tired of this topic

People are not required to continue.

>and you won't get it accepted anyway.

This is just comfirmation bias.

 

[Udlmaster]

This thread is getting derailed too much, should we close this because this isn't revising mythology and is now a debate about religious profiles on this wiki.

Still not what I'm advocating for.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

With the case of a figure like the jade emperor, you can't make a mythology profile like for him without religion into it. Like sera said, mythology is a downproduct of religion. That is why a profile for the Jade Emperor can't be here.

And before you say why figures like Zeus are allowed, that is because their religions are LONG dead while traditional chinese religion is still widely practiced

 

[Udlmaster]

With the case of a figure like the jade emperor, you can't make a mythology profile like for him without religion into it. Like sera said, mythology is a downproduct of religion. That is why a profile for the Jade Emperor can't be here.
And before you say why figures like Zeus are allowed, that is because their religions are LONG dead while traditional chinese religion is still widely practiced

This is just an ad nausuem argument made by Sera who stated she didn't want to get into to.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

It's true though, mythology is closely connected to religion, plus the fact that the Jade Emperor is still a worshipped diety by a large amount of people

 

[Udlmaster]

It's true though, mythology is closely connected to religion, plus the fact that the Jade Emperor is still a worshipped diety by a large amount of people

This just the SAME ad nausuem argument that "Jade Emperor Mythology = Jade Emperor Religion" which I got into Agnaa which in the end we agreed that AGAIN Religion is off limits but the Jade Emperor's profile is fine as along as it doesn't use Religion.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

If nothing else it's very inconsiderate to allow a still widely worshipped deity here.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

How can we make a profile for a religious figure but not use religion?? If you can find a way to do that be my guest, but I doubt you can do that considering the Jade Emperor is deeply tied into religion

 

[Udlmaster]

If nothing else it's very inconsiderate to allow a still widely worshipped deity here.

Blah blah, SMT scapegoat, Blah blah.

Jade Emperor Religion isn't Jade Emperor Mythology, blah blah.

 

[Udlmaster]

How can we make a profile for a religious figure but not use religion?? If you can find a way to do that be my guest, but I doubt you can do that considering the Jade Emperor is deeply tied into religio

By not having it feature a Religious character and just have the character be based purely on the Mythology.

See Wukong.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Isn't Sun Wukong mostly a myth/fable character and the only religious part was the buddha thing??

 

[Antvasima]

I also do not think that religion and mythology can be separated if we incorporate all of the latter into a composite profile for the Jade Emperor.

If we made a profile that only incorporates the "Journey to the West", that might be possible though.

 

[Udlmaster]

Isn't Sun Wukong mostly a myth/fable character and the only religious part was the buddha thing

Definately not.

The Journey to the West features a huge amount of aspects of Daoism and Buddhism, such as Wukong's first type of Immortality being literally based on Daoist practices.

 

[Udlmaster]

I also do not think that religion and mythology can be separated if we incorporate all of the latter into a composite profile for the Jade Emperor.
If we made a profile that only incorporates the "Journey to the West", that might be possible though.

But Ant, I have created a profile which only featured the mythology and the philosophy, Sera's current issue with the profile is the rank.


BUT I will create a compromise profile which will be created from purely the Journey to the West and it's contextual background, featuring as little of the original of myth of The Jade Emperor as possible.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, the point is that much of the reason for having a staff is that they should evaluate arguments from regular members and accept or reject them. If the staff members involved in a discussion reject your arguments, the suggested revision won't pass, and you are just wasting all of our time, and disrespecting our standards while doing so.

 

[Sera_EX]

I'm noticing you're not choosing to address my Many-valued logic argument which makes the Jade Emperor 1-A.

Can you please not assume that? I quite literally did. Many-valued logic means nothing. It falls under the category of "fancy talk" as I call it. Were this a couple months ago, yes, absolutely 1-A. That's how we did things back then. It's not how we do things anymore.

 

[Antvasima]

BUT I will create a compromise profile which will be created from purely the Journey to the West and it's contextual background, featuring as little of the original of myth of The Jade Emperor as possible.

Okay. I suppose that I am fine with that if the others think that it is acceptable.

However, we should preferably also remove the parts derived from religion from Wukong's profile.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

I'm noticing you're not choosing to address my Many-valued logic argument which makes the Jade Emperor 1-A.
Can you please not assume that? I quite literally did. Many-valued logic means nothing. It falls under the category of "fancy talk" as I call it. Were this a couple months ago, yes, absolutely 1-A. That's how we did things back then. It's not how we do things anymore.

So what do you want the tiering to be??

 

[Udlmaster]

>If the staff members involved in a discussion reject your argument

Once more, this is just an argument from Authority, and the precendent set is that if I get a bunch of Admins together to reject something which is perfectly valid I can get it removed, which is bad precendent to set.

>the suggested revision won't pass

Which is again, comfirmation bias.

>disrespecting our standards while doing so.

What standards, if anything by arguing so much I am reducing the argument down to its fundamentals which allows for a higher quality argument to be made, just having an oligarchy is a terrible idea, most of all when one choses to silent decent.

 

[Udlmaster]

I'm noticing you're not choosing to address my Many-valued logic argument which makes the Jade Emperor 1-A.Can you please not assume that? I quite literally did. Many-valued logic means nothing. It falls under the category of "fancy talk" as I call it. Were this a couple months ago, yes, absolutely 1-A. That's how we did things back then. It's not how we do things anymore.

I asked Ultima serveral times prior to doing any of the revisions on WoD, and he still states it's just plain old 1-A.

Also, yes, Many-Valued logic is type 4 which is 1-A:

Type 4 (Plurality): A state of being which is qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of even the distinction between duality and transduality. Such characters will usually not obey the laws of normal logic at any level, and will obey completely different systems of logic altogether, up to and including those states which are beyond human comprehension. A basic example of Plurality is characters whose fundamental nature operates under many-valued or certain kinds of non-classical logic

 

[Udlmaster]

BUT I will create a compromise profile which will be created from purely the Journey to the West and it's contextual background, featuring as little of the original of myth of The Jade Emperor as possible.

Okay. I suppose that I am fine with that if the others think that it is acceptable.
However, we should preferably also remove the parts derived from religion from Wukong's profile.

Already did: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Udlmaster/Sun_Wukong

 

[Sera_EX]

So what do you want the tiering to be??

So far from what I'm seeing, Unknow is the most accurate rating.

 

[Antvasima]

@Udlmaster

These are our rules in this wiki in order to avoid complete chaos, including constant edit wars for our profiles. If you are going to be a part of this community, you need to make an effort to follow them.

The staff, particularly myself, are busy with many different tasks, and cannot extensively indulge/waste time on you ad nauseum.

If this attitude problem continues, I might have to give you a warning.

 

[Udlmaster]

>These are our rules in this wiki in order to avoid complete chaos, including constant edit wars for our profiles.

But that isn't what I'm advocating for again, people keep assuming that because I don't think The Jade Emperor and his myths constitue as Religion (Such as The Jade Emperor's involvement with Pan-Gu, which has agreed to have been merely myth and not apart of any religion or the Journey') I must therefore want all religion to be unbanned.

>The staff, particularly myself, are busy with many different tasks, and cannot extensively indulge/waste time on you ad nauseum.

Again, they don't have to respond to me.

 

[Sera_EX]

Basically, it's come to a point where even dimensions itself don't automatically grant a higher rating. Various forms of philosophy and logic-think also shouldn't be taken as absolute on a power-scaling wiki. This is without a doubt the biggest problem the site faces. We need to rely on feats first and everything else second. We're not a Calculus wiki nor or we a theological or philosophical wikia. We debate power-scaling which is downstream from feats. Hyperbole, fancy words, mega-thonk language, and even extreme interpretations of math and science should have no more weight than feats and scaling.

Note: Udlmaster is not trying to debate religion. I suggest we not keep banging him over the head with it. Even I dropped it. We need to focus on the file itself and not against something Udl is clearly not trying to push for.

 

[Antvasima]

It is the staff's responsibility to manage these types of discussions, and you are being a fanatically argumentative drain on our time and energy.

That means that the staff will be much less likely to be able to do many other important tasks and get sufficient amounts of sleep. This in turn means that you are causing damage to the integrity to this community, especially as you set a bad precedent for others to follow, which in turn means that you will eventually force us to remove you if you keep up being blatantly disrespectful to our positions and conventions.

Is that what you want? To keep pushing and pushing and pushing until you are not allowed to be here anymore, rather than just try to adapt and play within the rules of the playbook like everybody else?

Seriously, just learn to back off when it is appropriate.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera

Alright. I will try to drop the topic.

 

[Udlmaster]

Note: Udlmaster is not trying to debate religion. I suggest we not keep banging him over the head with it. Even I dropped it. We need to focus on the file itself and not against something Udl is clearly not trying to push for.

Ya love to see it.

I'll give my response to the whole thing in a bit I need to let my cluster headache rest and take a few tablets.

 

[Antvasima]

I would recommend that you do not push for further conflict. Just back off, and respect our regulations and conventions in the future. I am overworked enough as it is.