- 6,590
- 1,700
Oh yeah, we're doing this. Yet again we're discussing Solar System level My Little Pony. Frankly, after going through the arguments against it, I'm starting to see some hypocrisy and I'm pretty pissed about it. So if I come off as passive-aggressive, you'll have to excuse me. This has been building up for a long time.
DarkDragonMedeus:
If someone where to explode a sun as Relativistic speeds, it would be a different story. But she's simply moving the sun casually at FTL and it's not treated as an attack that's beyond Star level. So I think it's safer to go by what Azathoth said and it appears even Darkanine thinks he makes good points.
Are you seriously appealing to authorial intent? In a wiki with literally thousands of calcs that go against what the author had in mind in terms of power levels? I do not buy that. Fine. I hope you don't mind if I downgrade more than half of the characters here then. I'm sure people won't mind. After all, we must follow how the author treats the attack and not what the actual results are.
I'll go more into how I feel about that type of logic near the end but for now I have this to say: If your argument is that it isn't treated as beyond Star level and thus it should only be Star level.....on a wiki filled to the brim with calcs that go against author intent, then you have no argument. By this logic, Celestia wouldn't even be Star level since the authors apparently think she can get ko-ed by wall busting blasts.
Also, Darkanine was never in support of the downgrades. Both me and The 2nd Existential Seed have been chatting with him and he never agreed in the first place. He only went along with it because he didn't want to waste energy arguing against it. But fear not my fallen friend, I will waste my energy for you.
Antvasima:
The exact same type of power is used for both occasions. We cannot use the laws of physics for one of them but not the other. I will close this now. My apologies.
I'm Sorry What? This? This is why they got downgraded? For artistic license? Artistic license is literally all it is. They aren't giving the finger to physics and making the Sun defy relativistic kinetic energy because it's some ability they have. It's literally artistic license. We ignore the Sun not messing up the planet every time it gets moved, or even seeing it getting moved despite light taking 8 minutes to reach us, because the episodes are literally written that way. If magic is defying physics in regards to the Sun then it's only because of artistic license writing it that way, not because it's genuinely disobeying them.
https://derpicdn.net/img/2018/10/14/1856249/large.jpeg
If you still don't believe me then take it up with Big Jim. He didn't give a reason for why the Sun kept moving without the princesses during the S8 finale. He didn't give the Sun or Moon magic or physics defying powers, he literally just wrote things that way for the sake of plot.
But the worst part about it all? The worst part is that this is the same ******* logic that people use to say moving the Sun is not a legit feat for My Little Pony at all. Because it doesn't follow logic and breaks physics. Because they aren't willing to accept that it is only because of the plot and artistic license that this stuff happens. We are doing literally the exact same thing that non-members do to downplay, but on a smaller scale and I gotta tell you: It is enraging. This logic honestly isn't much better than the logic that detractors use.
The last argument I want to address is the: "It's too close to Light Speed to use." This is simply not true I've plugged in the numbers from Darkanine's calc but at the 93% threshold instead, and guess what? The difference was barely a Kilofoe, a 1.03 Kilofoe difference to be precise. The inflation is virtually nonexistent.
The relativistic kinetic energy value is only accepted up to 4 times the Newtonian value:
That is the case, if the speed of the moving object is above 93% of the speed of light. For kinetic energy values above that, which are not faster than light, 4 times the kinetic energy value should be taken.
I'm pretty sure we just need to multiply the results by 4 and we're all good. Unless I missed something, it doesn't seem like it's saying we can't use values above 93%. I've also talked with DontTalkDT about it, he says anything below 1 c is perfectly fine to use, supporting that yes, Darkanine's 95.53% calc is completely fine to use.
Taking all of this into account, I propose we upgrade everyone back to 4-B, with Twilight tier characters scaling to 1/6th of the feat since Starswirl replicated Celestia's feat every day for decades. There's also the fact that he can clash with the Pony of Shadow's and not get overpowered and killed near instantly, he can even overpower his dark tendrils over time. Neither of these directly scale Starswirl to the Pony of Shadow's full power, seeing as he lost both times. They are however, auxiliary feats that would not be possible for someone who is weaker by a gap of at least 4.3 million times. Such a huge gap has never been implied in series and there exist similar auxiliary feats in the series.
One such feat is Twilight deflecting Sombra's shots with high difficulty (key word being high difficulty). No, you cannot say her S9 self got a power boost. That boost only applies at the end of S9. By that point she went from nearly getting knocked over from deflecting Sombra's blasts to knocking out one of Tirek's teeth. Said Tirek, on top of getting 1/3rd of Grogars magic from the bell, also had the speck of magic "Grogar" gave him.at the beginning of S9 + the magic of the Pillars of Equestria. I can go more into detail how powerful Tirek in this form is if need be, but Twilight clearly didn't get a boost until the end of S9, not the start.
DarkDragonMedeus:
If someone where to explode a sun as Relativistic speeds, it would be a different story. But she's simply moving the sun casually at FTL and it's not treated as an attack that's beyond Star level. So I think it's safer to go by what Azathoth said and it appears even Darkanine thinks he makes good points.
Are you seriously appealing to authorial intent? In a wiki with literally thousands of calcs that go against what the author had in mind in terms of power levels? I do not buy that. Fine. I hope you don't mind if I downgrade more than half of the characters here then. I'm sure people won't mind. After all, we must follow how the author treats the attack and not what the actual results are.
I'll go more into how I feel about that type of logic near the end but for now I have this to say: If your argument is that it isn't treated as beyond Star level and thus it should only be Star level.....on a wiki filled to the brim with calcs that go against author intent, then you have no argument. By this logic, Celestia wouldn't even be Star level since the authors apparently think she can get ko-ed by wall busting blasts.
Also, Darkanine was never in support of the downgrades. Both me and The 2nd Existential Seed have been chatting with him and he never agreed in the first place. He only went along with it because he didn't want to waste energy arguing against it. But fear not my fallen friend, I will waste my energy for you.
Antvasima:
The exact same type of power is used for both occasions. We cannot use the laws of physics for one of them but not the other. I will close this now. My apologies.
I'm Sorry What? This? This is why they got downgraded? For artistic license? Artistic license is literally all it is. They aren't giving the finger to physics and making the Sun defy relativistic kinetic energy because it's some ability they have. It's literally artistic license. We ignore the Sun not messing up the planet every time it gets moved, or even seeing it getting moved despite light taking 8 minutes to reach us, because the episodes are literally written that way. If magic is defying physics in regards to the Sun then it's only because of artistic license writing it that way, not because it's genuinely disobeying them.
https://derpicdn.net/img/2018/10/14/1856249/large.jpeg
If you still don't believe me then take it up with Big Jim. He didn't give a reason for why the Sun kept moving without the princesses during the S8 finale. He didn't give the Sun or Moon magic or physics defying powers, he literally just wrote things that way for the sake of plot.
But the worst part about it all? The worst part is that this is the same ******* logic that people use to say moving the Sun is not a legit feat for My Little Pony at all. Because it doesn't follow logic and breaks physics. Because they aren't willing to accept that it is only because of the plot and artistic license that this stuff happens. We are doing literally the exact same thing that non-members do to downplay, but on a smaller scale and I gotta tell you: It is enraging. This logic honestly isn't much better than the logic that detractors use.
The last argument I want to address is the: "It's too close to Light Speed to use." This is simply not true I've plugged in the numbers from Darkanine's calc but at the 93% threshold instead, and guess what? The difference was barely a Kilofoe, a 1.03 Kilofoe difference to be precise. The inflation is virtually nonexistent.
The relativistic kinetic energy value is only accepted up to 4 times the Newtonian value:
That is the case, if the speed of the moving object is above 93% of the speed of light. For kinetic energy values above that, which are not faster than light, 4 times the kinetic energy value should be taken.
I'm pretty sure we just need to multiply the results by 4 and we're all good. Unless I missed something, it doesn't seem like it's saying we can't use values above 93%. I've also talked with DontTalkDT about it, he says anything below 1 c is perfectly fine to use, supporting that yes, Darkanine's 95.53% calc is completely fine to use.
Taking all of this into account, I propose we upgrade everyone back to 4-B, with Twilight tier characters scaling to 1/6th of the feat since Starswirl replicated Celestia's feat every day for decades. There's also the fact that he can clash with the Pony of Shadow's and not get overpowered and killed near instantly, he can even overpower his dark tendrils over time. Neither of these directly scale Starswirl to the Pony of Shadow's full power, seeing as he lost both times. They are however, auxiliary feats that would not be possible for someone who is weaker by a gap of at least 4.3 million times. Such a huge gap has never been implied in series and there exist similar auxiliary feats in the series.
One such feat is Twilight deflecting Sombra's shots with high difficulty (key word being high difficulty). No, you cannot say her S9 self got a power boost. That boost only applies at the end of S9. By that point she went from nearly getting knocked over from deflecting Sombra's blasts to knocking out one of Tirek's teeth. Said Tirek, on top of getting 1/3rd of Grogars magic from the bell, also had the speck of magic "Grogar" gave him.at the beginning of S9 + the magic of the Pillars of Equestria. I can go more into detail how powerful Tirek in this form is if need be, but Twilight clearly didn't get a boost until the end of S9, not the start.
