Sizable Discord powers/abilities revision

[Antvasima]

Hello.

Our standards for omniscience are very strict, as a character needs to know, be aware of, be able to process, and completely understand literally everything, meaning unlimited intelligence, not simply have some degree of cosmic awareness, and Discord does not seem to remotely qualify. My apologies.

Discord

Tier: 2-A, possibly Low 1-C | 2-A, possibly Low 1-C Name: Discord, Grogar | Accord Origin: My Little Pony Gender: Male Age: At least thousands of years old (Claimed that he's lived at least this long), Possibly far older (Is implied to have had friends since the Dinosaur era, and if so he would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Hello.

Our standards for omniscience are very strict, as a character needs to know, be aware of, be able to process, and completely understand literally everything, meaning unlimited intelligence, not simply have some degree of cosmic awareness, and Discord does not seem to remotely qualify. My apologies.

Discord

Tier: 2-A, possibly Low 1-C | 2-A, possibly Low 1-C Name: Discord, Grogar | Accord Origin: My Little Pony Gender: Male Age: At least thousands of years old (Claimed that he's lived at least this long), Possibly far older (Is implied to have had friends since the Dinosaur era, and if so he would...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Knowing everything that has been said throughout time would be Nigh Omniscience, no?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe, but Discord has repeatedly made stupid mistakes and/or been taken by surprise, so he seems more like a Gifted or possibly Genius character with rather poor common sense and strong cosmic awareness or somesuch.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Well, maybe, but Discord has repeatedly made stupid mistakes and/or been taken by surprise, so he seems more like a Gifted or possibly Genius character with rather poor common sense and strong cosmic awareness or somesuch.

Ant this has already been brought up and discussed earlier in the thread.

In the show, he is aware of events he has no knowledge about even when his powers are shut down and has no method to be aware of them with.

Him being tricked is because he's following the script laid out by the writers and is going along with the plot. In the comics, he has full access to the comic books he's in at all times, and is constantly complaining about the roles he's forced to play if they don't suit him.

Alright, back from my Thanksgiving vacation. I'll add the agree/disagrees to the post, plus edit out the cold resistance. Space travel without gear still provides radiation resistance, right?


Other than than, yeah, Discord is canonically just playing through the "story" of the series, with pages like this, and arguing with the editor there. The card game, and RPG don't contradict the canon anywhere, and simply give stats, and explain abilities. Discord having precog and retrocognition should already be incredibly likely, since he's shown the ability to go forwards and backwards in time, and his first shown dialogue is him knowing who the Mane 6 are. So Omniscience is also likely using just the show, but the RPG just state these things outright. Examples of him not knowing certain things can just be explained away as PIS.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that seems far too speculative. We cannot remotely give him the highest intelligence rating that we have available based on such loose grounds.

We can give him cosmic awareness, 4th wall breaking, and gifted or genius intellect with poor common sense though.

My apologies if this is disappointing, but I cannot make exceptions just because I really like a verse.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I think that seems far too speculative. We cannot remotely give him the highest intelligence rating that we have available based on such loose grounds.

We can give him cosmic awareness, 4th wall breaking, and gifted or genius intellect with poor common sense though.

My apologies if this is disappointing, but I cannot make exceptions just because I really like a verse.

Ant, if a character giving you an explanation for canonical plot induced stupidity isn’t enough, I don’t know what is. This just seems particularly wrong to deny based on only your own opinion. Plus this was already agreed upon by 3 different staff members.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Ant, if a character giving you an explanation for canonical plot induced stupidity isn’t enough, I don’t know what is. This just seems particularly wrong to deny based on only your own opinion. Plus this was already agreed upon by 3 different staff members.

This. Also, denying everything I said about Discord being under a canon contract and having sensory powers he can't turn off is not speculative. These are not counterarguments. The fact he can't even turn the power off suggests he can't be caught off-guard; at least caught off-guard in terms of getting betrayed, since his power would warn him already.

I'm sorry, but sometimes, stupidity by a character exists purely because of plot-induced stupidity. And in Discord's case, it'd canonical. Saying "no, it's speculative" when we're told on-screen is not an argument. It's the equivalent to going "nuh uh".

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Ant, if a character giving you an explanation for canonical plot induced stupidity isn’t enough, I don’t know what is. This just seems particularly wrong to deny based on only your own opinion. Plus this was already agreed upon by 3 different staff members.

Technically Ant has a point (Though I don't fully agree). And it being accepted by 3 staff doesn't mean he can't explain his stance as to why it's wrong in his opinion. Also, some of the stuff y'all mentioned in that isn't even super good evidence for Omniscience other than what was mentioned in the OP.
However, he has an explicit statement that he can see and hear everything throughout time, has boundless knowledge, and is only following the script so any surprises that catch him off guard can simply be argued to be for the plot.

I think that seems far too speculative. We cannot remotely give him the highest intelligence rating that we have available based on such loose grounds.

We can give him cosmic awareness, 4th wall breaking, and gifted or genius intellect with poor common sense though.

My apologies if this is disappointing, but I cannot make exceptions just because I really like a verse.

They aren't basing it off loose grounds though, he's got the statement along with showcasing knowledge of events he wasn't there for and the moments he is surprised/caught off guard, you could argue it's because he's following the script.

I'd say you should call other staff members because this does possess enough support to be a thing, and there are also are possible/likely ratings too.

 

[PonePoster]

I think that seems far too speculative. We cannot remotely give him the highest intelligence rating that we have available based on such loose grounds.

We can give him cosmic awareness, 4th wall breaking, and gifted or genius intellect with poor common sense though.

My apologies if this is disappointing, but I cannot make exceptions just because I really like a verse.

I think at minimum he should obviously be an Extraordinary Genius, since he's known to be able to outsmart Twilight; the combined statement and cosmic awareness would mean that he has comparable knowledge to her. She's able to build intelligence draining machines, technological/magical portals between realities, as well as encyclopedic knowledge on all spells in the verse.

As well, since he sees throughout time, he would also know how to build his time machine; as well as understand the sciences of the futuristic pony society hundreds to thousands of years ahead of the main timeline.

If the reasoning behind his Omniscience tag don't seem like enough, I could also settle for a possibly/likely rating for it, or Nigh-Omniscience. If that's not valid either, then I guess Extraordinary Genius would work as well.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'll just ask another staff member to provide their thoughts on Omniscience.

@UchihaSlayer96 @DarkDragonMedeus

Do you guys think Omniscience is fine given the below evidence or just Nigh-Omniscence?

Cosmic Awareness, Precognition, Retrocognition, Omniscience - Is stated to have knowledge that knows no bounds, complete understanding of all spells in the verse, as well as having such control over time and space that he can see and hear anything ever said through time. (Not just every spell in MLP, but every spell (whatever that means for vs debating))

A user also explains that Discord is following the script so that's a reason why he seems like he'd be caught off guard in certain situations.

In the show, he is aware of events he has no knowledge about even when his powers are shut down and has no method to be aware of them with.

Him being tricked is because he's following the script laid out by the writers and is going along with the plot. In the comics, he has full access to the comic books he's in at all times, and is constantly complaining about the roles he's forced to play if they don't suit him.

 

[PonePoster]

So where we at with adding this stuff? Everyone seems to agree with all the evidence for the comics and show and manga as well. Aaaall we have to decide on is if the cards and RPG books are okay to add. Again, they are supposed to represent the Mane cast, from the Mane timeline. The abilities they state, like Discord's omniscience and cosmic awareness, are already shown in canon, but just never focused too hard on because of PIS. He has shown knowledge of the Mane 6 before ever having met them, and can view things across time already (he's replaying a flashback that Twilight had in her own head). Cosmos, another Draconequus, notably is able to conjure imagery of different villains who she never met. Showing that she has knowledge of those characters simply because they are malicious in some way; malice being what she represents. As they are both similar abstract beings from the same "species", they should scale to each other and have the same abilities. Discord even already is shown to have nigh-omnipresence from statements when his abstract existence was reversed and he became Accord, saying he's the "unifying principle of order" and that he lives in the hearts of all who desire it.

This is further stuff past the script explanation as well. Honestly, I'm fine with a Possibly rating on Omniscience, though I do think he should be bumped to Extraordinary Genius at a minimum, seeing as how his "knowledge" should extend to stuff like Twilight's sciences and arcane studies.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Omniscient sounds too much tbh.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Nigh-Omniscient may work, but I think full on Omniscient is probably a bit of a stretch.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I feel like some stuff brought up in this thread are relevant here? https://vsbattles.com/threads/discord-and-cosmos-immortality-mlp-scan-quality.163807/#post-6334596

 

[Antvasima]

I think that seems far too speculative. We cannot remotely give him the highest intelligence rating that we have available based on such loose grounds.

We can give him cosmic awareness, 4th wall breaking, and gifted or genius intellect with poor common sense though.

My apologies if this is disappointing, but I cannot make exceptions just because I really like a verse.

@Qawsedf234 @Agnaa @Deagonx @Damage3245 @Planck69

Your input would be very appreciated here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well to just comment on the section Ant brought up

Cosmic Awareness, Precognition, Retrocognition, Omniscience - Is stated to have knowledge that knows no bounds, complete understanding of all spells in the verse, as well as having such control over time and space that he can see and hear anything ever said through time. (Not just every spell in MLP, but every spell (whatever that means for vs debating))

• Cosmic Awareness: Justified
• Precognition: I don't see any evidence of seeing future information here. Just current and past information
• Retrocognition: Justified
• Omniscience: The key point here is "whenever he wants to see or hear it". Meaning that he cannot qualify for Omniscience in my view, since that is a passive abilities rather than active abilities how this reads. I can get "X, up to Nigh-Omniscience" or just "Nigh-Omniscience" however.

 

[PonePoster]

Well to just comment on the section Ant brought up

• Cosmic Awareness: Justified
• Precognition: I don't see any evidence of seeing future information here. Just current and past information
• Retrocognition: Justified
• Omniscience: The key point here is "whenever he wants to see or hear it". Meaning that he cannot qualify for Omniscience in my view, since that is a passive abilities rather than active abilities how this reads. I can get "X, up to Nigh-Omniscience" or just "Nigh-Omniscience" however.

The precognition mainly comes from a few other factors, like the statement that Discord's power having control of all of reality, the fact he can freely move forwards and backwards through the timeline any time he wants, and his universal+ range encompassing space-time. All that should mean he can view the entire timeline any time he wants.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The precognition mainly comes from a few other factors, like the statement that Discord's power having control of all of reality, the fact he can freely move forwards and backwards through the timeline any time he wants, and his universal+ range encompassing space-time. All that should mean he can view the entire timeline any time he wants.

I'm not seeing that as precog. It's just cosmic awareness and the ability to time travel.

 

[PonePoster]

I'm not seeing that as precog. It's just cosmic awareness and the ability to time travel.

Well, at the end of the day he would still know the future, as his range, and the original Eyes and Ears statement would include all of time as far as he's capable of traveling/affecting, which is the whole timeline.

I should also find the scans of Discord traveling thousands/millions of years in the future, of which he knows well enough to claim any info he gives on the robo-ponies there would be "spoilers"

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well, at the end of the day he would still know the future

But it wouldn't be for reasons that qualify for the power imo.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The precognition mainly comes from a few other factors, like the statement that Discord's power having control of all of reality, the fact he can freely move forwards and backwards through the timeline any time he wants, and his universal+ range encompassing space-time. All that should mean he can view the entire timeline any time he wants.

This is Precognition

This is Cosmic Awareness

Big difference, and I agree with Qawsef for this one

 

[PonePoster]

Hmmmmm, well, it's unrelated to the Eyes and Ears statement, but he still has this scan of canonically reading the script to his own comic arc. That might be more of a 4th wall break, but it's there.

Aside from that, I think the lowest Discord should have for intelligence is "Extraordinary Genius up to Nigh-Omniscience", but just Nigh-Omniscience is more likely imo so whichever is fine.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

I agree that Nigh-Omniscient works better for Discord

 

[Antvasima]

I could see giving him a variable intelligence tier between Above Average and Nigh-Omniscient. It fits with what we have seen of him and his nature as an embodiment of chaos.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This looks good, I agree