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My Little Pony: Revisions are Indeed Magic

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Updated the OP with more justifications for scaling Twilight and Starswirl tier characters to a fraction of this.
 
Honestly, I think that these calculations are purely legit given what the show has presented to us. It is not reasonable for the highher ups, especially Ant, to be coming up with whatever line of nonsensical reasoning to justify the shutdown of those upgrades and maintaining the inaccurate status quo, so I support your stance about this.
 
Nice to see so much support, but I'm still worried about convincing Antvasima. He can be immensely difficult to budge depending on what you are talking about. It doesn't help that it's my word against Azathoth's here, and Antvasima trusts Azathoth's judgement more than anyone else in regards to MLP.
 
Some people are just like that, frankly, but that's okay. I still like Ant for I admire him for his devotion to the wiki and his overall professionalism and formality.
 
EMagoIorSouI said:
Some people are just like that, frankly, but that's okay. I still like Ant for I admire him for his devotion to the wiki and his overall professionalism and formality.
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I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just makes him hard to convince.
 
True. And I see where you come from, I've had threads before where convincing one person nearly took it to the 500 comment limit.

Anyways, if this upgrade were applied would this update Alicorn Twilight to 4-B or would she remain at Low 4-C?
 
EMagoIorSouI said:
True. And I see where you come from, I've had threads before where convincing one person nearly took it to the 500 comment limit.
Anyways, if this upgrade were applied would this update Alicorn Twilight to 4-B or would she remain at Low 4-C?
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It's explained in the last two paragraphs: Starswirl performed the same feat as Celestia every day but with 5 people helping him (It's literally raising the Sun), so they scale to 1/6th of Clestia's feat. I'd recommend reading the last two paragraphs in the OP since they go into much more detail. I talk about it immediately after addressing relativistic kinetic energy.
 
EMagoIorSouI said:
True. And I see where you come from, I've had threads before where convincing one person nearly took it to the 500 comment limit.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but Antvasima really doesn't like talking about this, so we have a short window to actually convince him.
 
Would end of series Twilight scale to Celestia? She knocked Tirek on his ass and in addition to what's previously stated he should be comparable to Alicorn Cozy Who Celestia and Luna felt the need to combine there powers to attack.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
The first argument falls under my "authorial intent" argument. Being portrayed as the same effort is completely irrelevant and pure pedantry.

What do you mean takes more energy to move it faster? That's sorta how kinetic energy works. By definition you need more power to go faster.

As far as not moving the Sun at the same speed as the Storm King: Celestia can control the speed at which she raises the Sun. The Storm King by contrast pretty obviously has poor control with his powers and it almost certainly not as experienced with them as a mare who's been doing this for 1111 years. As for Discord? The dude was making the Sun travel at compable speeds just by causing chaos. He wasn't even doing it himself, it was just his chaos passively doing that. Not hard to believe he could do it faster if he put in some effort.
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What I mean by my second point is similar to my first: authorial intent. The writers didn't think moving the sun at relativistic speeds is 4-B.
 
Js250476 said:
Would end of series Twilight scale to Celestia? She knocked Tirek on his ass and in addition to what's previously stated he should be comparable to Alicorn Cozy Who Celestia and Luna felt the need to combine there powers to attack.
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That's what I've been saying for a while now. She's shown so many Celestia tier feats that it's hard to think she's still much weaker than her,
 
Js250476 said:
Would end of series Twilight scale to Celestia? She knocked Tirek on his ass and in addition to what's previously stated he should be comparable to Alicorn Cozy Who Celestia and Luna felt the need to combine there powers to attack.
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Only very end of series Twilight. As in, the last three episodes. Like I said, she was clearly outclassed by Sombra at the start and was barely holding her own against him, which isn't exactly Celestia tier. Not too many episodes later, it's revealed she's still weaker than top tier alicorns like Celly and Lulu. Then she goes and knocks out the teeth of the guy who should be on par with Sombra in the finale. There's clearly a gap between Twilight at the start of S9 and Twilight at the end.
 
Yeah hence why I specified end of series.

Btw unless I'm misinterpreting something is Twilight able to harness the power of friendship by herself now? She teleports everyone to the final battlefield restores Rockhoof's form and along with everyone else unleashes the biggest "taste the rainbow ************" beam of all time.
 
Js250476 said:
Yeah hence why I specified end of series.
Btw unless I'm misinterpreting something is Twilight able to harness the power of friendship by herself now? She teleports everyone to the final battlefield restores Rockhoof's form and along with everyone else unleashes the biggest "taste the rainbow ************" beam of all time.
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Yeah, but some people may interpret EoH as any point in S9. Or at least, that's what I think some people might think (I'm paranoid as hell).
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Only very end of series Twilight. As in, the last three episodes. Like I said, she was clearly outclassed by Sombra at the start and was barely holding her own against him, which isn't exactly Celestia tier. Not too many episodes later, it's revealed she's still weaker than top tier alicorns like Celly and Lulu. Then she goes and knocks out the teeth of the guy who should be on par with Sombra in the finale. There's clearly a gap between Twilight at the start of S9 and Twilight at the end.
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Why is Sombra considered Celestia tier? It took her and Luna just to banish him, not even kill him.
 
Because he held his own against Tia and Lulu at once well enough to not get instantly stomped. And the Sombra timeline implies he's comparable to Celestia seeing how he waged war against Equestria and isn't defeated already.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Why is Sombra considered Celestia tier? It took her and Luna just to banish him, not even kill him.
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That sorta speaks for itself. They felt he was strong enough that neither of them felt they could defeat him on their own and instead had to combine their power. The fact that in a parallel timeline, Celestia can't just waltz in and banish him like she did with Luna, and instead can only stalemate him sorta supports this.
 
Btw this is less important but I was thinking about adding Twilights final speech to Chrysalis, Cozy and Tirek as an additional quote for the profile if that's okay.
 
I think season 9 Twily in general probably scales since she was able to move the sun and moon by herself. Of course she needed that amulet, but it was because she was still wet behind the ears.

I like the additional quote too.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the fully matured Alicorn Twilight is just as powerful as Celestia and Luna. Her appearance says so. And was she now able to do so without the amulet if I heard you correctly?
 
DoggoRoboto said:
I think season 9 Twily in general probably scales since she was able to move the sun and moon by herself. Of course she needed that amulet, but it was because she was still wet behind the ears.
I like the additional quote too.
Click to expand...
She specifically couldn't control either one without the amulet iirc. Note that she wasn't able to do anything to stop the Sun and Moon when she lost control of the amulet. She didn't even consider trying her own magic. Remember: The amulet specifically moves the Sun and Moon via Celestia and Luna's magic. Twilight's magic has nothing to do with it beyond actually turning the thing on. It feels wierd to scale her based on that. Plenty of people can use artifacts of great power, that doesn't mean they scale to said power.
 
Well, I don't feel particularly strongly about this myself, and don't have the energy to argue about it over and over again. I mostly just went with what I remembered that Azathoth said regarding the subject.

The problem is that Azathoth seems to have left the wiki, so it would be preferable to ask for more staff input, and if somebody could find and quote his old posts regarding the topic.
 
Anyway, in summary, from what I remember, Azathoth thought that specifically searching for an instance in which the MLP Sun went just below the speed of light, rather than FTL as usual, was a dishonest way to get higher results, even though its movement generally clearly broke the laws of physics. We do not tend to use 93% lightspeed calculations to get automatic AP results for MFTL+ characters in general either.
 
Antvasima said:
Anyway, in summary, from what I remember, Azathoth thought that specifically searching for an instance in which the MLP Sun went just below the speed of light, rather than FTL as usual, was a dishonest way to get higher results, even though its movement generally clearly broke the laws of physics. We do not tend to use 93% lightspeed calculations to get automatic AP results for MFTL+ characters in general either.
Click to expand...
Which again, I personally believe is due to artistic license. The argument really hinges on whether or not it's artistic license or not. Discord is the only character blatantly shown and portrayed as physics breaking. Magic on the other hand can actually be studied and quantified in-universe, which suggests an adherence to logic instead of an aversion.
 
Antvasima said:
You should ask other staff members about giving input for this. I am definitely not comfortable with clearing it on my own.
Here are some suggestions to choose from: Promestei, SomebodyData, The real cal howard, Dragonmasterxyz, Celestial Pegasus, Dark649, Soldier Blue, Monarch Laciel, Saikou The Lewd King, AKM sama, Dargoo Faust, Wokista, Ultima Reality, Mr. Bambu, Gemmysaur, Theglassman12, Qawsedf234, Crabwhale, Crimson Azoth, Sir Ovens, Warren Valio, The Calaca
Click to expand...
It would be nice if half the staff members I asked actually commented then. I've asked a number of them already and the most common thing I get beyond silence is: I don't know the series. I guess it's true, but it's still annoying.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
Which again, I personally believe is due to artistic license. The argument really hinges on whether or not it's artistic license or not. Discord is the only character blatantly shown and portrayed as physics breaking. Magic on the other hand can actually be studied and quantified in-universe, which suggests an adherence to logic instead of an aversion.
Click to expand...
I meant in terms of repeatedly moving the Sun at FTL speeds.
 
EMagoIorSouI said:
@Ant

Honestly man, you should relax from these sort of threads. You've been on 3-4 of these? I think you should remain at ease for now.
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There is unfortunately always a lot of work for me to do.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
It would be nice if half the staff members I asked actually commented then. I've asked a number of them already and the most common thing I get beyond silence is: I don't know the series. I guess it's true, but it's still annoying.
Click to expand...
You can tell them that I sent you if you wish.
 
Antvasima said:
Lightbuster30 said:
It would be nice if half the staff members I asked actually commented then. I've asked a number of them already and the most common thing I get beyond silence is: I don't know the series. I guess it's true, but it's still annoying.
Click to expand...
You can tell them that I sent you if you wish.
Click to expand...
I've told Cal you wanted him for the speed revisions and he still didn't respond.
 
A Stoned Orc said:
Staff members have lives too, y'know.
Click to expand...
Dude, I've seen him make comments within seconds after I asked him. I made sure the staff members I asked weren't very busy before asking them. At the very least it wouldn't hurt to say no.
 
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