My Hero Academia General Discussion Thread #18

[TheRustyOne]

I still don't get why they aren't. Aoyama makes sense, his speed is all weird. But this laser and the WHM laser feat denial sounds straight up like downplay.

There is no downplay, we have our rules and the jet lasers don't follow them.

The WHM energy beams don't either, but they aren't even lasers at all, just generic energy beams. They are never even called lasers to begin.

And I've already explained how Flect's tech works multiple times, he does not have mirrors, those things reflect basically anything he wants.

 

[57Dev]

There is no downplay, we have our rules and the jet lasers don't follow them.

It literally broke none of those rules.

• It never went through another material other than Air. So no chance to refract.
• The only two people to touch it have superpowers that specially allow them to do so.
• It only bends due to again a superpower that is used on it. When it is shot by the Jets it travels in a straight line and leaves a burn on Shiggy's chest.
• It's fired from a weapon system with a Lens on it which aligns with rule 5.
• Is called a laser, not a plasma canon

So even the rules themselves aren't explaining the denial. Not to mention it wasn't once, but about 4 times now that MHA had it's laser related feats denied.

As for WHM's laser beams. Again that's the most laser looking laser to be ever featured in an anime. Flect turn reflecting everything doesn't disprove it being a laser, because he would have reflected a real laser anyway. And it's not called a laser sure, it's called nothing, not even mentioned, so moot point there.

 

[RidleyX]

There is no downplay, we have our rules and the jet lasers don't follow them.

The WHM energy beams don't either, but they aren't even lasers at all, just generic energy beams. They are never even called lasers to begin.

And I've already explained how Flect's tech works multiple times, he does not have mirrors, those things reflect basically anything he wants.

Soooo which rule specifically do the jet lasers break? The only one you could try to argue is bending and that was after Shigaraki reflected them, they were straight when they were fired from the jets

Also literally from the laser rules page

• They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above.)

 

[Damage3245]

Soooo which rule specifically do the jet lasers break?

It's not just about which rules they don't break, but which requirements they fulfil.

 

[RidleyX]

It's not just about which rules they don't break, but which requirements they fulfil.

Which requirement did they not fufill aside it not being referred to as light speed?
They reflected off Shigaraki, they came from a realistic source ei a lens as someone else pointed out

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

It’s worth noting that Star and the jets managed to react to the radio waves attack after it was fired

And the fact that the EMP effect wasn’t on the jets means that they successfully dodged it

 

[RidleyX]

So I'm going to assume that certain people want 3/5 criteria to be met for lasers to be = light speed

We know the jet lasers aren't referred to as being light speed and they aren't referred to as being photons or light itself, so that leaves 3

We know 2 of the criteria are filled because they come from a realistic source and they reflect

So all that leaves is if the lasers refract ....but as someone else pointed out the lasers never had the opportunity to refract because they were fighting in the air

 

[57Dev]

It's not just about which rules they don't break, but which requirements they fulfil.

Fulfills requirement 5. Other than that it wasn't in a location where the other requirements matter. There were no walls or mirrors and it never got to interact with anything other than Star and Shiggy both who whom can touch lasers.

It also refracts with the use of a quirk called Refract. And is called a laser.

So 3 points in favor, none in opposition.

 

[TheRustyOne]

It’s worth noting that Star and the jets managed to react to the radio waves attack after it was fired

And the fact that the EMP effect wasn’t on the jets means that they successfully dodged it

I forgot about this completely.

Quick check is getting me 16% the speed of light for the jet's dodging. Although, it's not possible to get Star's movement as she disappears after jumping.

After Damage's thread, I may do something with this.

 

[57Dev]

It’s worth noting that Star and the jets managed to react to the radio waves attack after it was fired

And the fact that the EMP effect wasn’t on the jets means that they successfully dodged it

Thanks for pointing that out, I did make a note while watching but forgot.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Supernatural reflection do not count.

Tomura's Quirks are supernatural, and nothing states he can only reflect light/photons. So his two Reflect and Scatter Quirks are not proof of anything.

 

[RidleyX]

Fulfills requirement 5. Other than that it wasn't in a location where the other requirements matter. There were no walls or mirrors and it never got to interact with anything other than Star and Shiggy both who whom can touch lasers.

It also refracts with the use of a quirk called Refract. And is called a laser.

So 3 points in favor, none in opposition.

I believe the quirk is "Reflect" and also the wiki criteria wants it to be called "light speed" or made of "photons"

To me it seems like 2 in favor, 2 unopposed and 1 should be tossed out because of the location

 

[Damage3245]

Also worth noting that the jets flying at 16% of the speed of light would be enough for them to circle the Earth in about a second or less.

 

[RidleyX]

Also worth noting that the jets flying at 16% of the speed of light would be enough for them to circle the Earth in about a second or less.

Anyone moving at 1% of the speed of light would be enough for them to circle the Earth (assuming IRL size) in about 13 seconds.

Supernatural reflection do not count.

Tomura's Quirks are supernatural, and nothing states he can only reflect light/photons. So his two Reflect and Scatter Quirks are not proof of anything.

Quirks are "biological" functions, there's nothing supernatural/magical about them.

 

[Spinoirr]

Also worth noting that the jets flying at 16% of the speed of light would be enough for them to circle the Earth in about a second or less.

Anyways Shigaraki and star could react to those jets anyways

 

[Damage3245]

Quirks are "biological" functions, there's nothing supernatural/magical about them.

Don't think we can really claim this anymore when Quirks like Comic and New Order are around.

 

[57Dev]

Also worth noting that the jets flying at 16% of the speed of light would be enough for them to circle the Earth in about a second or less.

Also worth noting maneuver thrusters exist for quick short movements, and travel speed is not combat speed.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Quirks are "biological" functions, there's nothing supernatural/magical about them.

You know, aside from the souls attached to them in the form of Quirk Consciousnesses.

 

[RidleyX]

Anyways Shigaraki and star could react to those jets anyways

That's called the "argument of incredulity"

Don't think we can really claim this anymore when Quirks like Comic and New Order are around.

Sure...if we're talking about New Order and specific quirks but I don't think that dismisses quirks being biological for like 99% of quirks, should be a case by case basis and there's nothing about Shigaraki reflect/scatter quirks that scream "supernatural" either

 

[TheRustyOne]

Getting Mach 5000+ for Star and Stripe's jump using a Super Low-End with these panels.

The anime shows that Star jumped after he fired.

It should be a safe assumption that Shigaraki aimed at Star herself. So the center of the attack should where she was.

Meaning she'd have to jump that distance at minimum to avoid being hit by the blast. If I can find the Air Cannon's size, I can find the distance Star moved to dodge it.

I'll take a better look at this later, as I don't want to overwhelm anyone or myself.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Never mind, I'm getting 48.54% the speed of light using this panel.

Speed of Light = 2.998e+8 m/s (653 px)

Minimum Distance Moved To Avoid = 317 px

Difference Between = 653/317 = 2.05993690852

Star's Speed = 2.998e+8/2.05993690852 = 145538437.978 m/s or 0.4854c (Relativistic) Really close to Relativistic+.

That was really simple, assuming my assumption about Star being in the middle of the blast is considered to be a reasonable assumption.

 

[RidleyX]

Never mind, I'm getting 48.54% the speed of light using this panel.

Speed of Light = 2.998e+8 m/s (653 px)

Minimum Distance Moved To Avoid = 317 px

Difference Between = 653/317 = 2.05993690852

Star's Speed = 2.998e+8/2.05993690852 = 145538437.978 m/s or 0.4854c (Relativistic) Really close to Relativistic+.

That was really simple, assuming my assumption about Star being in the middle of the blast is considered to be a reasonable assumption.

How do we feel about mixing/matching the feat from different mediums? ei anime and manga

We know the anime/ manga radio wave blast are virtually identical

We know from the anime that Star dodged after it was fired

So I assume the only reason we're using manga panels is because we don't have a clear shot of how far Star jumped in the anime

Granted even if she literally jumped 5 feet in the air ....

 

[TheRustyOne]

How do we feel about mixing/matching the feat from different mediums? ei anime and manga

Manga always take priority if there's any contradictions between them. And new anime filler or scenes cannot be used.

However, we do accept some "explanations". The anime showed that Star jumped after Tomura fired his attack, meaning it's alright to use that. Since the manga, all we see is Star jumping after Tomura was preparing. We have no idea when he fired in comparison to her jump. So using the anime to "show" she jumped after is alright.

Honestly, anime scenes require discussion and should mostly be case by case. In my case above, I don't see any issues with it.

 

[Spinoirr]

So I saw the cloud feat, I still think we can take the animes time frame only

It's still better then just assuming

 

[TheRustyOne]

So I saw the cloud feat, I still think we can take the animes time frame only

It's still better then just assuming

Nah, the cloud dispersion is completely different from the manga.

Also, the timeframe is longer than 1 second and would lower the results anyway.

 

[57Dev]

Never mind, I'm getting 48.54% the speed of light using this panel.

Speed of Light = 2.998e+8 m/s (653 px)

Minimum Distance Moved To Avoid = 317 px

Difference Between = 653/317 = 2.05993690852

Star's Speed = 2.998e+8/2.05993690852 = 145538437.978 m/s or 0.4854c (Relativistic) Really close to Relativistic+.

That was really simple, assuming my assumption about Star being in the middle of the blast is considered to be a reasonable assumption.

Good lord if you apply that 60x multiplier to AM's speed then 28.8x light speed.

How did this feat go unnoticed for this long.

 

[RidleyX]

Good lord if you apply that 60x multiplier to AM's speed then 28.8x light speed.

How did this feat go unnoticed for this long.

Wait is the 60x multiplier thing valid still? I always hear conflicting arguments on this….also doesn’t it only apply to AP?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Wait is the 60x multiplier thing valid still? I always hear conflicting arguments on this….also doesn’t it only apply to AP?

It only applies to Striking Strength/Attack Potency and yes we use it.

I assume he was speaking hypothetically.

 

[SlendVeny]

Honestly, if I'm Tomura Shigaraki riding on one Nomu, and I see a squadron of advanced fighter jets coming at me, I'm already a bit worried about what weapons they have. If I see some absolutely jacked woman that looks like All Might standing up there while smiling at me, I'm going "OH **** HE HAD A KID" and booking it.

 

[57Dev]

It only applies to Striking Strength and yes we use it.

I assume he was speaking hypothetically.

I am pretty his overall speed got nerfed too since AFO points that out.

 

[Spinoirr]

I am pretty his overall speed got nerfed too since AFO points that out.

Yeah all Might gets slower too alongside getting weaker, so the multiplier should apply to speed

 

[TheRustyOne]

I am pretty his overall speed got nerfed too since AFO points that out.

Yes, but the 60x statement is for his Striking Strength only as that's what All Might was talking about after blowing Nomu away.

Nothing suggest his speed was lowered by the same percentile as his power.

Same reason we don't apply it to his Lifting Strength either.

 

[SuperStar]

The new OP is ok. Peace Sign won't ever be beaten.

 

[57Dev]

Yes, but the 60x statement is for his Striking Strength only as that's what All Might was talking about after blowing Nomu away.

Nothing suggest his speed was lowered by the same percentile as his power.

Same reason we don't apply it to his Lifting Strength either.

I would have agreed to that but doesn't Deku used Gearshift to increase speed to increase AP. Thus Speed directly affecting AP.

 

[RidleyX]

Yes, but the 60x statement is for his Striking Strength only as that's what All Might was talking about after blowing Nomu away.

Nothing suggest his speed was lowered by the same percentile as his power.

Same reason we don't apply it to his Lifting Strength either.

I think it be odd if his attack power specifically was nerfed 1/60th but his speed and mobility were nerfed 1/20th for example

 

[TheRustyOne]

I would have agreed to that but doesn't Deku used Gearshift to increase speed to increase AP. Thus Speed directly affecting AP.

That's Gearshift and has nothing to do with All Might getting weaker due to his injury.

Speed making something stronger is a given and has nothing to do with the multiplier. Also, assuming normal physics. This is not acceptable but, All Might would only need to be 15x faster to punch 60x harder. As doubling speed increases the energy of something by 4x. But once again, we obviously don't accept that.

I think it be odd if his attack power specifically was nerfed 1/60th but his speed and mobility were nerfed 1/20th for example

This is fiction, anything is possible regardless of how "odd" it is.

Your power can be multiplied by 100x but your speed was only made 2x faster. We do not make assumptions for this stuff, we go by what is said/shown.

All Might stated he could've blown the USJ Nomu away in his Prime with five punches, while it took him over three hundred punches now. This was him realizing just how far his strength had falling. While we know his speed fell as well, the statement only applies to his punching strength.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Also worth noting that the jets flying at 16% of the speed of light would be enough for them to circle the Earth in about a second or less.

Okay? That still means a whole lotta nothing tbh, that's just a classic case of suspension of disbelief

 

[Damage3245]

Okay? That still means a whole lotta nothing tbh, that's just a classic case of suspension of disbelief

It's a factor to consider. I'd be pretty skeptical if somebody came up with a calc method that'd make James Bond be Mountain level. Doesn't mean I'd dismiss it out of hand, but contextually there's only so far you can suspend disbelief for certain things.

Doesn't really matter if you disagree or agree with me on this, I'm not looking to convert you and you're entitled to your own opinions too. This isn't a CRT right anyway so I'm not beholden to rigorous debating here.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Fundamentally I disagree with that line of thinking, but I'll save it for when a thread's made on the topic

 

[57Dev]

That's Gearshift and has nothing to do with All Might getting weaker due to his injury.

Speed making something stronger is a given and has nothing to do with the multiplier. Also, assuming normal physics. This is not acceptable but, All Might would only need to be 15x faster to punch 60x harder. As doubling speed increases the energy of something by 4x. But once again, we obviously don't accept that.

Okay but his speed will be much higher than star anyway right ? So got any quantifiable measure or just gonna stick up the good ol "far higher"