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My Hero Academia: Final War Arc Revisions

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Dalesean027 said:
Yeah but if this is just for travel speed its still a decent starting point
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Still sucks because Faux 100% Deku could travel over three hundred meters before Lady Nagant’s 13% light speed bullets could travel 16 meters or so

So it scales to his travel speed (sad we can’t calc stack it but if we could, Deku’s bullet blitz feat would be 3.15x FTL)
 
Mazdoesstuff said:
Still sucks because Faux 100% Deku could travel over three hundred meters before Lady Nagant’s 13% light speed bullets could travel 16 meters or so

So it scales to his travel speed (sad we can’t calc stack it but if we could, Deku’s bullet blitz feat would be 3.15x FTL)
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And then Current Deku with Gearshift freeze frames that level of speed with just 2nd Gear :)
 
Mapl3Sy4up said:
A. S&S Cloud Clap and Heroes Rising Cloud Split were done by air pressure alone as mentioned above, and as we've seen in My Hero, air pressure is commonly far weaker then the actual character who's throwing the hit (In Example, Current war ark AFO controlled Shigaraki used what we can guess is air pressure and it did alot but not enough to completely KO and character. Any time he actually touched them it was devastating, say Bakugou getting one tapped or Miruko's prosthetics, which withstand to force she outputs, getting ripped off in one go)
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This bit is wrong.

What Shigaraki and the Nomu are being hit by is not the air pressure of Star and Stripe's clap, but the clap itself as they are directly in the epicenter of where the blow was struck. When characters are launching air pressure strikes at each other like Deku's finger-flicks or punches, then the air pressure of the strike is of course generally going to be less than the strike itself as the energy contained in the air pressure strike is lost to friction, it disperses over a larger area, etc. That isn't the case for this feat.

Moreover, it would be inaccurate to say that both Shigaraki and the Nomu equally endured the entire brunt of the attack. I'm not going to get into surface area here for the clap but just the simple fact that there were two characters hit by it means that at best we could only scale each of them to half of the potency of Star and Stripe's clap.

Now, both Shigaraki and the Nomu seem heavily stunned by the attack to me. Shigaraki looked pretty battered, visibly bleeding, and neither of them seemed to be capable of moving in the timespan it took for Star and Stripe to be blasted with lasers and coalesce them into a single weapon.

If both the High End and Shigaraki were this damaged by what is approximately 70 Gigatons each, then I don't think either of them should be fully scaling to 433 Gigatons.


One argument I've seen given here is "Star and Stripe used all ten missiles at once, so Shigaraki must have a higher durability than 1 missile".

I think that's flawed for a couple reasons;

1) The missiles were all sent at once by the US military, meaning that Star and Stripe didn't really have a choice about whether she was to use them all or not. They all arrived at the same time and share the same name; if she applied a rule to one of them then it would apply to all of them. She had to use them all, as there was no way for her to hold the rest back and try using them one at a time.

2) Star and Stripe was trying to play it safe by attempting to utterly vaporize Shigaraki completely meaning she was going for maximum possible damage. Maybe 1 missile could have killed Shigaraki... but Star and Stripe didn't want to take the risk. After all with Super Regeneration, Tomura could survive and regenerate if he was just a severed head. So it's possible from Star and Stripe's perspective that a single missile (or the portion of the single missile that would hit Shigaraki) could have done massive damage and destroyed most of his body... but it'd be useless if his brain survived and he regenerated fully.

Because of this, I'm not in favor of the 433 Gigatons scaling. I don't think the provided reasoning is sufficient to solidly say Shigaraki/High Ends's durability > 1 Tiamat missile.
 
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I'm leaning in favor of the 140 GT one since I'm not a fan of "Well let's randomly assume they're above one missile".

We did the same thing for OP once and it irritated me.
 
Damage3245 said:
This bit is wrong.

What Shigaraki and the Nomu are being hit by is not the air pressure of Star and Stripe's clap, but the clap itself as they are directly in the epicenter of where the blow was struck. When characters are launching air pressure strikes at each other like Deku's finger-flicks or punches, then the air pressure of the strike is of course generally going to be less than the strike itself as the energy contained in the air pressure strike is lost to friction, it disperses over a larger area, etc. That isn't the case for this feat.

Moreover, it would be inaccurate to say that both Shigaraki and the Nomu equally endured the entire brunt of the attack. I'm not going to get into surface area here for the clap but just the simple fact that there were two characters hit by it means that at best we could only scale each of them to half of the potency of Star and Stripe's clap.

Now, both Shigaraki and the Nomu seem heavily stunned by the attack to me. Shigaraki looked pretty battered, visibly bleeding, and neither of them seemed to be capable of moving in the timespan it took for Star and Stripe to be blasted with lasers and coalesce them into a single weapon.

If both the High End and Shigaraki were this damaged by what is approximately 70 Gigatons each, then I don't think either of them should be fully scaling to 433 Gigatons.


One argument I've seen given here is "Star and Stripe used all ten missiles at once, so Shigaraki must have a higher durability than 1 missile".

I think that's flawed for a couple reasons;

1) The missiles were all sent at once by the US military, meaning that Star and Stripe didn't really have a choice about whether she was to use them all or not. They all arrived at the same time and share the same name; if she applied a rule to one of them then it would apply to all of them. She had to use them all, as there was no way for her to hold the rest back and try using them one at a time.

2) Star and Stripe was trying to play it safe by attempting to utterly vaporize Shigaraki completely meaning she was going for maximum possible damage. Maybe 1 missile could have killed Shigaraki... but Star and Stripe didn't want to take the risk. After all with Super Regeneration, Tomura could survive and regenerate if he was just a severed head. So it's possible from Star and Stripe's perspective that a single missile (or the portion of the single missile that would hit Shigaraki) could have done massive damage and destroyed most of his body... but it'd be useless if his brain survived and he regenerated fully.

Because of this, I'm not in favor of the 433 Gigatons scaling. I don't think the provided reasoning is sufficient to solidly say Shigaraki/High Ends's durability > 1 Tiamat missile.
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Meh ok, as said earlier idrc which one is used, just trying to give what I think were the peoples reasons for 433
 
Indeed.

Since we're getting close to the end of this first part, Who knows how long it'll take, I'm already somewhat starting the scaling list.

Unless their response is delayed for an unusually long amount of time, I'm going to ask for people to at least wait until I get my list ready.

Since it's possible I'm not going to be ready by that time.
 
SuperStar said:
Hori reveals that Nagant was actually 600 KM from Shigiraki.
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Hori tells us that Nagant was actually shooting from an island 430000 kilometers away
Kingofwolves999 said:
Well, scaling shouldn’t be TOO hard considering a lot of people are just gonna be downscaling. It’s basically the prior 7-A+ scale but High 6-C.

And I assume we’re also going to be adding in the students that scale to High 6-C as well, like Shoto and Bakugo?
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That's what I assumed would happen, given we're giving final war arc feats Shoto can finally get higher then 8-B durability for getting socked in the face by a FlashFire Fist from Dabi
 
So I’m guessing:

Bakugo: High 6-C, higher with Cluster, far higher with Howitzer Impact: Cluster, even higher with Awakening?

Shoto: High 6-C, higher with Flashfire Fist, far higher with Flashfire Fist: Phosphor
 
Phosphor has no physical impact showings whatsoever. It's just temperature manipulate via cold flames. No reason for a higher rating.

I don't think Bakugo should get his, whatever happened to him (Second Awakening?), mentioned until he gets up and does something else.

It could end up being another key if all of his abilities got boosted by it. I'm personally going to be listing everything he did until that moment.

But let's save the scaling discussion for when I'm ready. Or you can take it to the general discussion thread instead.
 
Since the 139.35 Gigatons impact hit both Shigaraki and the Nomu at once (and there's no way each of them could have taken the full value individually), both of them should be scaling to half the value, or around 70 Gigatons, which is 6-C+.
 
Damage3245 said:
Since the 139.35 Gigatons impact hit both Shigaraki and the Nomu at once (and there's no way each of them could have taken the full value individually), both of them should be scaling to half the value, or around 70 Gigatons, which is 6-C+.
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Why do you say that?

If 2 characters survive a 100 GT explosion, we don't say each of them scales to half the explosion value.
 
Eseseso said:
Why do you say that?

If 2 characters survive a 100 GT explosion, we don't say each of them scales to half the explosion value.
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That depends, say you had 1 character who was on one side of the explosion, and one character on the other side of the explosion. Or even if they were standing right next to each other. Neither of them is receiving the full amount.

If you're saying that both of them separately received a full 100 Gigatons, that means the explosion was 200+ Gigatons, not 100.
 
Damage3245 said:
Since the 139.35 Gigatons impact hit both Shigaraki and the Nomu at once (and there's no way each of them could have taken the full value individually), both of them should be scaling to half the value, or around 70 Gigatons, which is 6-C+.
Click to expand...
That isn't how that works Damage. Especially when the High 6-C value came as a side effect from the clap itself.

The energy went through them and the air between her giant's hand before it spread to preformed the High 6-C feat.

They should be scaling above it, but this wiki dislikes using the inverse square law to upgrade anything, only downgrades. Don't take that part seriously.

If they were only hit by the air pressure which preformed the High 6-C feat we'd need to take that stuff into account, but we do not have to here.

I completely disagree with your take here and I'm more than willing to discuss this.
 
Damage3245 said:
Since the 139.35 Gigatons impact hit both Shigaraki and the Nomu at once (and there's no way each of them could have taken the full value individually), both of them should be scaling to half the value, or around 70 Gigatons, which is 6-C+.
Click to expand...
I do not think that’s how that works. They’re getting hit at the epicenter of a clap, and the side effect of that clap is 139 GT. The actual Air Avatar would be ABOVE 139 GT, since I struggle to believe that a clap is exerting less energy than a punch. Also Shigaraki/NHE got PUNCHED by the Avatar and were fine so they fully scale anyways.
 
TheRustyOne said:
That isn't how that works Damage. Especially when the High 6-C value came as a side effect from the clap itself.

The energy went through them and the air between her giant's hand before it spread to preformed the High 6-C feat.

They should be scaling above it, but this wiki dislikes using the inverse square law to upgrade anything, only downgrades. Don't take that part seriously.

If they were only hit by the air pressure which preformed the High 6-C feat we'd need to take that stuff into account, but we do not have to here.

I completely disagree with your take here and I'm more than willing to discuss this.
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I am pretty sure how i described it is how it works. Is there anything in our standards that says otherwise?

It's simple logic that both of them can't be taking the full amount of energy each.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
I do not think that’s how that works. They’re getting hit at the epicenter of a clap, and the side effect of that clap is 139 GT. The actual Air Avatar would be ABOVE 139 GT, since I struggle to believe that a clap is exerting less energy than a punch. Also Shigaraki/NHE got PUNCHED by the Avatar and were fine so they fully scale anyways.
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If you punch two guys simultaneously with one fist (let's imagine your hand is big enough for that to be feasible) are both guys taking the full energy of your punch each? Or is the energy divided between the two of them?
 
Damage3245 said:
I am pretty sure how i described it is how it works. Is there anything in our standards that says otherwise?

It's simple logic that both of them can't be taking the full amount of energy each.
Click to expand...
139 GT is not the full energy Damage. It was made as a side effect after they were already hit.

Your ignoring this to fit your convenience. If the clap only had 139 GT of energy it wouldn't have preformed that feat.

It went through their bodies and the air, and the shockwave still had enough energy to preform a 139 GT feat.
 
Damage3245 said:
That depends, say you had 1 character who was on one side of the explosion, and one character on the other side of the explosion. Or even if they were standing right next to each other. Neither of them is receiving the full amount.

If you're saying that both of them separately received a full 100 Gigatons, that means the explosion was 200+ Gigatons, not 100.
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
If you punch two guys simultaneously with one fist (let's imagine your hand is big enough for that to be feasible) are both guys taking the full energy of your punch each? Or is the energy divided between the two of them?
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The Giant, which produced the 139 GT, would scale to the full value.

The Giant punched Shigaraki and the Nomu and they got bloodied up but were fine.

They scale to the full value regardless. The actual feat is the left over energy OF the clap. That’s like saying that the energy of you clapping your hands and moving air around them is the same as the energy you transfer to someone via a punch.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
They scale to the full value regardless. The actual feat is the left over energy OF the clap. That’s like saying that the energy of you clapping your hands and moving air around them is the same as a punch transferred to someone via a punch.
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This right here is perfect.

Damage is literally saying the energy produce from the wind of clapping is equal to the energy of the clap itself.

But you can clearly tell that isn't the case, since the wind pressure from a clap wouldn't even hurt you. This is also why we don't use the inverse square law here to upgrade them, since the results would be absurd. So we simply just scale them to the air pressure energy value as a low-end.
 
TheRustyOne said:
This right here is perfect.

Damage is literally saying the energy produce from the wind of clapping is equal to the energy of the clap itself.

But you can clearly tell that isn't the case, since the wind pressure from a clap wouldn't even hurt you. This is also why we don't use the inverse square law here to upgrade them, since the results would be absurd. So we simply just scale them to the air pressure energy value as a low-end.
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The energy that is involved from clapping your hands together turns into a tiny amount of heat and sound energy which disperses via the movement of air molecules. In this case, the 139 Gigatons shockwave pushing all of the air out of the way is the energy of the clap that has been transformed. It just has a far more extreme visual effect than mere producing a little bit of wind but it's the same principle.

I am not saying "saying the energy produce from the wind of clapping is equal to the energy of the clap itself", I am saying that is a substantial part of it unless you're able to provide a different figure for the total amount of the energy of the clap that would contradict that. Otherwise where is the rest of the energy involved here?
 
Let me explain this in a simple way. I'm pretty heated and coming across as disrespectful back there, my apologies.

Even if the energy was transferred to them in the way you're saying, the feat wouldn't exist period. Since they would've taken the energy into them. The wind produced by your clap is NOT the full energy. Since the majority of that energy gets transferred into your hands and whatever you hit between it. (Assuming something is there)

In this case what is produced is so MASSIVELY smaller than the clap itself that it's perfectly fine to scale them to this.

This is a simple case of energy transfer.

At this point I'm taking a small break to cool my head down and wait for other calc group members to speak up.
 
@TheRustyOne; didn't intend to make you heated, just raising issues as I see them. If I'm wrong then I'm wrong.

I agree it's a case of energy transfer, but you haven't proven that the energy each of them experienced is >> 139 Gigatons. If the majority of the energy gets transferred between hands and anything between them, then a substantial portion of energy wouldn't hit either of them because it'd be going into the air that makes up Star and Stripe's hands.

But I'm afraid at this point if I just keep arguing about it then I'm going to end up upgrading the feat, so **** it, let's make them 139 Gigatons.
 
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