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Mundus (Beasthead Timeline) Vs The Dawn Machine - Battle for 5th Strongest 2-C

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This was already done and it's a coin flip basically. https://vsbattles.com/threads/dante-vs-the-dawn-machine.125801/

To summarize the machine can't kill but can probably incap (which I think would trigger whatever Reactive Evolution Dante has) and Dante can actually kill now that the last thread was done but his resistance to law manip is baseline so it depends on that (and since he can't probably be killed he has a bigger chance here).

Personally I think Dante just adapts through whatever hax that doesn't kill him

Also, unrelated to the match but related to the strongest for every tier. Dante is the strongest in verse but this thing has a ton of passive hax, he could get a spot in there.
 
Dante probably takes this.
Also if i understood dawn's machine law manip right

It replaces the laws of reality for its own law and forces anyone exposed by his sunlight to obey permanently his laws.

How The Dawn Machine's sunlight going to force Dante's 9D Soul, mind, info, name concept to obey those laws?

But yeah, dante eventually adapts to law manip + any law changes on dante's physical body is reverted to default due to name concept.
 
EFÍTÉ said:
Dante probably takes this.
Also if i understood dawn's machine law manip right

It replaces the laws of reality for its own law and forces anyone exposed by his sunlight to obey permanently his laws.

How The Dawn Machine's sunlight going to force Dante's 9D Soul, mind, info, name concept to obey those laws?

But yeah, dante eventually adapts to law manip + any law changes on dante's physical body is reverted to default due to name concept.
Click to expand...
so dante can take this fight ?
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
This was already done and it's a coin flip basically. https://vsbattles.com/threads/dante-vs-the-dawn-machine.125801/

To summarize the machine can't kill but can probably incap (which I think would trigger whatever Reactive Evolution Dante has) and Dante can actually kill now that the last thread was done but his resistance to law manip is baseline so it depends on that (and since he can't probably be killed he has a bigger chance here).

Personally I think Dante just adapts through whatever hax that doesn't kill him
Click to expand...
Alright

Based

Tony_di_bugalu said:
Also, unrelated to the match but related to the strongest for every tier. Dante is the strongest in verse but this thing has a ton of passive hax, he could get a spot in there.
Click to expand...
I completely forgot about Mundus having like 50 ******* passives and basically the same physiology as Dante (Discounting Hybrid Shit).

I'm actually going to change Dante out for Mundus since Mundus seems to be a better/haxxer character out verse compared to Dante.
 
I personally think Dante takes this

So what can the machine do while getting haxed left and right by everything Mundus has?
 
maybe you should contact the supporters like venom? that or wait for venom to actually revise the verse
 
Random-Helper323 said:
How does Mundus fare against the Dawn Machine's enslaving ability? And what does Mundus have to bring it down with?
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He can with the many passives that the dawn doesn't resist

the question is will it be more of a tie since both have passive haxs that both of them can't resist
 
Hmm how Dawn Machine can enslave mundus's HDE soul, info, mind?
Also Dawn Machine likely can't even use his law hax to change things into his advantage due to Mundus passive haxes already acting first.
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
What are the ranges on those passive hax out of curiosity?
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Mundus is 2 universes, Dawn Machine is 3 universes but SBA puts them at 4km apart so that's likely irrelevant

Deadguy said:
He can with the many passives that the dawn doesn't resist

the question is will it be more of a tie since both have passive haxs that both of them can't resist
Click to expand...
Mundus resist all of them, law manip is the one that can **** him up but going by what Ven said in the last thread the Machine needs to actively make it more potent. So its basically action vs passive hax.

There is also the question if the machine can affect him being non existent (and getting an upgrade when I stop being lazy) and the AE type 1 stuff.

As for the others I have to say ignore Efite, he is wrong as always :v
 
Mundus (and Dante) resist the various haxes the Machine has, for the most part. The issue seems to be the ability which can enslave enemies even if they resist mind manipulation. How many "layers" of mind resistance does Mundus have? And on the other side, the Machine is tough against hax as well.

Edit: Also, Demons all have resistance to causality and other such things. That might pose an issue for the Dawn Machine's Law Manipulation as well.

2nd Edit: Transmutation, paralysis, corrosion, empathic manipulation, corruption, disease manipulation. As far as I noticed those hax were the ones Mundus had that the Machine didn't seem to resist. All were passive too. I also noticed Mundus had law manipulation of his own. Sounds like he might take it, but I don't know enough about the Dawn Machine to be sure.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
Three questions. Was higher dimensional existence accepted, if so, didn't it only apply to the soul, and in any case would that really counter the Dawn Machine's enslaving ability?
Click to expand...
Only thing that is still discussed is if HDE is 1-C or not
HDE applies to Soul, name concept, mind, memory, information.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Three questions. Was higher dimensional existence accepted, if so, didn't it only apply to the soul, and in any case would that really counter the Dawn Machine's enslaving ability?
Click to expand...
it apply to soul but the soul contain all of mind, information, name concept that give demons power and memory and yes it should counter tdm enslave since tdm can't enslave sth that 9-D HDE
 
Is that so? Wasn't the 9D contested? Or was it just whether it warranted a tier jump that was contested?

Edit: checked the pages. I saw the higher dimensional existence listed and described as 9D.

Still, Tony seemed to think the higher dimensional existence wasn't a solid counter to the Dawn Machine's enslaving ability. What's the story? How do higher dimensional existence and law manipulation generally interact when they clash against each other?

Also, I noticed the regeneration negation is listed as a hybrid ability. If that's the case, does Mundus have a reliable way to overcome the Dawn Machine's high godly regeneration? That's some regeneration ability.
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
Still, Tony seemed to think the higher dimensional existence wasn't a solid counter to the Dawn Machine's enslaving ability. What's the story? How do higher dimensional existence and law manipulation generally interact when they clash against each other?
Click to expand...

I don't think tony said that but even if so he seems to question if the dawn can effect non existent and AE stuff with his law manipulation(but it still kinda useless since mundus resist it anyway)
Also, I noticed the regeneration negation is listed as a hybrid ability. If that's the case, does Mundus have a reliable way to overcome the Dawn Machine's high godly regeneration? That's some regeneration ability.
Click to expand...
Mundus have showcased regeneration negation it's just that everyone are lazy and forgot to add it in his page but this isn't really his wincon for he can passive the living the **** outta of dawn machine
 
I know Mundus has that ability, and not just him. Dante wasn't healing during his battle with Sid either. And Mundus was able to kill Griffon. It seems as though a stronger demon can negate a weaker one's regeneration, kind of like Reiatsu pressure in Bleach or power levels in Dragon Ball. Problem was that it isn't on the page. Has it been accepted?
 
I have the power! Until I die again

I said the law manip stuff would work because it's that, law manipulation. It being able to accomplish something using other ways is why I think that.

For example, if I create a law that says "everything must obey me" then it is law manipulation. If I mind hax stuff into obeying me then it is mind hax. The end objective is the same but the way it works and the form it takes is different.

It's focused power is >> Mundus resistance.

Also, every Demon has regen negg, why it is in the hybrid section alone is unknown to me
 
so tdm have a wincon is law manip... just thought hde can do sth with the law lol, anyway the law manip need to be active and mundus belike have ton a passive hax that tdm can't deal with so mundus likely win 8/10 for sure
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
I said the law manip stuff would work because it's that, law manipulation. It being able to accomplish something using other ways is why I think that.
Click to expand...
Tony how Exactly Dawn machine is going to affect NEP and inorganic being being in the first place and somehow reach Mundus's HDE
Plus there's the whole omnipresency of Mundus which requires range to affect him.
 
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It's very clear regen neg is a general demon ability or at least a high level demon ability. If staff give permission I'd gladly make that adjustment to the Demon Physiology page myself. I've already been cleaning it in increments.

I'm unsure about this interaction between law manipulation and what Mundus can do as well. The issue is, I'm not sure we can really be certain the law manipulation is a guaranteed win condition.

Firstly a higher dimensional existence indicates the law manipulation can't actually reach there in a sense; the Dawn Machine's page states that its light permanently alters the law of everything that light touches, but that light can't actually touch Mundus' higher mind, soul or info. In addition the altered law would have to be able to affect nine dimensions for that to work too. Second, the demon world already has laws that are different from the human world, and Mundus not only doesn't suffer from them, he can actually warp that place. And third, does law manipulation work against something with non-existence? Can that light touch something that doesn't exist, and can the law manipulation control such a thing? This seems a bit questionable to me. I'll check the law manipulation page and get back to you.

Edit: Law manipulation page says it might not work against targets with type 4 acausality, which demons have. The Demon Physiology page also states that demons don't have to follow the laws of the world due to the acausality. I also noticed demons have abstract existence type 1, another possible barrier to the Dawn Machine. With this in addition to the stuff above, I'm currently leaning towards Mundus not being that easy to control.
 
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