The Devil VS The Moon-Scented (Legion VS The Hunter - Battle for 5th Strongest Non-Smurf 7-C)

[Shmooply]

The Hunter can evade shit. However, the Hunter cannot evade one thousand shit being flung at him.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The definitely are. Not boutta downplay someone's acrobatics cuz of game mechanics and players timing. If The Hunter can evade shit then he can. And I aint only arguing for acrobatics here I'm saying with that and his teleportation he should be fine.

His best feat of dodging shit with Acrobatics is a few dozen small projectiles. Not 1000 projectiles slightly smaller then an adult woman in height.

 

[Arkenis]

His best feat of dodging shit with Acrobatics is a few dozen small projectiles. Not 1000 projectiles slightly smaller then an adult woman in height.

Okay, am I reading this wrong?

"Massively Hypersonic Combat Speed and Reactions (Faster than before. Capable of dodging lightning as well as the meteors of the Living Failures and Blacksky Eye)"

He can dodge meteors, and they seem pretty big from what I'm looking at. How are 1000 human size projectiles even comparable to several meteors?

 

[azontr]

Okay, am I reading this wrong?

"Massively Hypersonic Combat Speed and Reactions (Faster than before. Capable of dodging lightning as well as the meteors of the Living Failures and Blacksky Eye)"

He can dodge meteors, and they seem pretty big from what I'm looking at. How are 1000 human size projectiles even comparable to several meteors?

I hope that you realize dodging a small amount of large projectiles is a much easier feat than evading thousands of much smaller projectiles which the the person firing them can freely control telekinetically to make then home.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Okay, am I reading this wrong?

"Massively Hypersonic Combat Speed and Reactions (Faster than before. Capable of dodging lightning as well as the meteors of the Living Failures and Blacksky Eye)"

He can dodge meteors, and they seem pretty big from what I'm looking at. How are 1000 human size projectiles even comparable to several meteors?

The meteors he dodged are pretty darn dogshit, and aren't even from all directions, nor are their numbers high.

 

[Shmooply]

He can dodge meteors, and they seem pretty big from what I'm looking at. How are 1000 human size projectiles even comparable to several meteors?

Are you pulling at our tails here or something?


How is him dodging a few meteors coming from random directions for a few seconds whatsoever comparable to danmaku that may as well be omnidirectional.

 

[Arkenis]

I hope that you realize dodging a small amount of large projectiles is a much easier feat than evading thousands of much smaller projectiles which the the person firing them can freely control telekinetically to make then home.

Yeah you'd be right if the projectiles were the same speed in context, but the Hunter's dodging meteors, something far faster than Legion's attacks, and my point is that dodging bigger objects forces you to move further distances.

Are you pulling at our tails here or something?


How is him dodging a few meteors coming from random directions for a few seconds whatsoever comparable to danmaku that may as well be omnidirectional.

read what I said here.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah you'd be right if the projectiles were the same speed in context, but the Hunter's dodging meteors, something far faster than Legion's attacks, and my point is that dodging bigger objects forces you to move further distances.

??? Speed is equalized here, so the projectiles will be the same speed as the hunter. What you showed isn't some skill feat or anything like that, merely a speed feat. It has no bearing on this match.

Also, Legion FRA.

 

[azontr]

Yeah you'd be right if the projectiles were the same speed in context, but the Hunter's dodging meteors, something far faster than Legion's attacks, and my point is that dodging bigger objects forces you to move further distances.

Blud, speed is equalized, the speed of the projectiles is irrelevant because they literally the same.

 

[Arkenis]

??? Speed is equalized here, so the projectiles will be the same speed as the hunter. What you showed isn't some skill feat or anything like that, merely a speed feat. It has no bearing on this match.

Also, Legion FRA.

Yeah ya downplay him dodging the meteors cuz of a speed equalize then lmao. That's my problem here, ya can't say its shit acrobatics when its against much faster projectiles.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeah ya downplay him dodging the meteors cuz of a speed equalize then lmao. That's my problem here, ya can't say its shit acrobatics when its against much faster projectiles.

 

[azontr]

Yeah ya downplay him dodging the meteors cuz of a speed equalize then lmao. That's my problem here, ya can't say its shit acrobatics when its against much faster projectiles.

 

[Shmooply]

I still don't understand why you're bringing up Acrobatics in this. The videos never, ever show him backflipping away from the meteors or something, literally just him moving a few feet away or rolling away from them. I genuinely do not understand how you can claim that him moving away from a handful of random meteors is even remotely comparable to him dodging a thousand projectiles who are all almost the same size as those meteors.

Legion FRA.

 

[azontr]

Bump

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

The acrobatic's argument seems really silly. Not all levels of acrobatics are comparable, and the skills necessary to dodge several large objects falling from the sky is VASTLY different than the one needed to avoid being hounded by hundreds of smaller attacks.

Holding my vote for now, but I don't think the "lol dodge" argument holds much ground here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I'm voting Legion. Hunter's ability to deal with Legion's teleportation and danmaku is complete garbage with the provided evidence. Legion spams his abilities every possible second and all of Hunter's opponents who "spam" these abilities don't do that at all, and have even lesser versions of Legion's skills to begin with, so Hunter isnt "dealing" with Jack shit.

For what reason exactly? Legion has nothing that can beat the Hunter, this is inconclusive at best

Legion shrinks the Hunter down to the size of an ant and traps him in a jar or some shit GG.

Hunter forces a timelin reset

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Game mechanics aren't an argument, dont pretend they are.

I mean if the hunter self-BFRs for a week then Legion wins so

Its not for a week, its for a few minutes at most

 

[WeeklyBattles]

??? Speed is equalized here, so the projectiles will be the same speed as the hunter. What you showed isn't some skill feat or anything like that, merely a speed feat. It has no bearing on this match.

Also, Legion FRA.

For what reason exactly? There has not been a reason given for how Legion even beats the Hunter

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I still don't understand why you're bringing up Acrobatics in this. The videos never, ever show him backflipping away from the meteors or something, literally just him moving a few feet away or rolling away from them. I genuinely do not understand how you can claim that him moving away from a handful of random meteors is even remotely comparable to him dodging a thousand projectiles who are all almost the same size as those meteors.

Legion FRA.

For what reason exactly? There has not been a reason given for how Legion even beats the Hunter

If youre arguing about the meteors, the Hunter just revives after dying so those wouldnt do anything to put him down

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also would like to point out again that the mind suck argument would not work, as for Legion'ss mind suck to work to the degree that it completely incaps the Hunter, he would have to absorb the Huner rune from the Hunter's mind, which would expose Legion to madness that would just kill him instantly as runes in bloodborne are literall the Frenzy inducing words of the Great Ones. If Legion doesnt absorb the Hunter rune, the Hunter just thinks and revives himself back at his peak via time rewind.

 

[azontr]

Hunter forces a timelin reset

When has he forced a timeline reset when he hasn't be killed, Weekly?

It says on the profile it works only when he DIES. Show me evidence that it'll ever work if Legion simply shrinks him down, or turns him into gold. Like, actual video evidence.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

When has he forced a timeline reset when he hasn't be killed, Weekly.

It says on the profile it works only when he DIES. Show me evidence that it'll ever work if Legion simply shrinks him down, or turns him into gold. Like, actual video evidence.

Whenever he uses the Hunter's Mark, thats literally what it does.

Hunter's Mark

The Hunter's Mark is a consumable item in Bloodborne. Dangling, upside-down rune etched in one's mind. Symbol of a hunter. By focusing one's thoughts on this rune, a hunter loses all Blood Echoes, but awakes afresh, as if it were all just a bad dream. Held by the player at the start of the game...

bloodborne.fandom.com

Dangling, upside-down rune etched in one's mind. Symbol of a hunter. By focusing one's thoughts on this rune, a hunter loses all Blood Echoes, but awakes afresh, as if it were all just a bad dream.

 

[azontr]

Whenever he uses the Hunter's Mark, thats literally what it does.

The Hunter's Mark doesn't reverse time. It teleports you back to a checkpoint, which is self-BFR lol.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The Hunter's Mark doesn't reverse time. It teleports you back to a checkpoint, which is self-BFR lol.

No? The Hunter's Mark does in fact reverse time, it is the Hunter dying and reviving, causing a time reversal, and its not self-BFR as the Hunter just comes back a few minutes later.

 

[azontr]

No? The Hunter's Mark does in fact reverse time, it is the Hunter dying and reviving, causing a time reversal, and its not self-BFR as the Hunter just comes back a few minutes later.

That's literally not what it does. I spent a sum of time researching the consumable, nowhere does it say that it kills The Hunter and forces a time reset, just that it warps The Hunter back to a checkpoint.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That's literally not what it does. I spent a sum of time researching the consumable, nowhere does it say that it kills The Hunter and forces a time reset, just that it warps The Hunter back to a checkpoint.

My guy, that is what kills the Hunter, its why he loses his Blood Echoes just like every time he dies. Every souls game has this mechanic, it does in fact just kill you so you get an auto-resurrection. That is what Reawakening is.

 

[azontr]

That's literally not even what happens in the video footage of the consumable being used.


It's explicitly NOT death, but simply teleportation that removes a portion of your materials.

And even assuming this was a time reset then it's not going to help The Hunter claim victory. Not only does he get spawned away from the battle in a seemingly random location (idk how we treat checkpoints here) but he doesn't get any time to freely replenish any equipment he may have lost in the fight, meaning he's coming back weakened.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That's literally not even what happens in the video footage of the consumable being used.


It's explicitly NOT death, but simply teleportation that removes a portion of your materials.

Boyo, that is the BOLD Hunter's Mark, not the Hunter's Mark, they are two different things.

Hunter's Mark

Hunter's Mark Bloodborne Wiki » Items » Consumables » Hunter's Mark Source ❘ Edit ❘ Sitemap ...

www.bloodborne-wiki.com

Bold Hunter's Mark

Bold Hunter's Mark Bloodborne Wiki » Items » Consumables » Bold Hunter's Mark Source ❘ Edit ❘ ...

www.bloodborne-wiki.com

And even assuming this was a time reset then it's not going to help The Hunter claim victory. Not only does he get spawned away from the battle in a seemingly random location (idk how we treat checkpoints here) but he doesn't get any time to freely replenish any equipment he may have lost in the fight, meaning he's coming back weakened.

The Hunter's Mark spawns him in the Hunter's Dream, the hub where he replenishes all of his equipment and weapons, while the Bold Hunter's Mark transports the Hunter to the nearest Lantern, which he can then use to go to the Hunter's Dream and do the same thing. Under SBA, the Hunter would have a Lantern available at all times, and would come back at his peak every time.

 

[azontr]

Boyo, that is the BOLD Hunter's Mark, not the Hunter's Mark, they are two different things.

They have the exact same effect, only difference is Bold doesn't take away your Blood Echoes.

The Hunter's Mark spawns him in the Hunter's Dream, the hub where he replenishes all of his equipment and weapons, while the Bold Hunter's Mark transports the Hunter to the nearest Lantern, which he can then use to go to the Hunter's Dream and do the same thing. Under SBA, the Hunter would have a Lantern available at all times, and would come back at his peak every time.

The Hunter's Mark explicitly does NOT respawn The Hunter within The Hunter's Dream.

Hunter's Mark

The Hunter's Mark is a consumable item in Bloodborne. Dangling, upside-down rune etched in one's mind. Symbol of a hunter. By focusing one's thoughts on this rune, a hunter loses all Blood Echoes, but awakes afresh, as if it were all just a bad dream. Held by the player at the start of the game...

bloodborne.fandom.com

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They have the exact same effect, only difference is Bold doesn't take away your Blood Echoes.

Correct

The Hunter's Mark explicitly does NOT respawn The Hunter within The Hunter's Dream.

Hunter's Mark

The Hunter's Mark is a consumable item in Bloodborne. Dangling, upside-down rune etched in one's mind. Symbol of a hunter. By focusing one's thoughts on this rune, a hunter loses all Blood Echoes, but awakes afresh, as if it were all just a bad dream. Held by the player at the start of the game...

bloodborne.fandom.com

Yes, it takes him back to the Lantern fully restored to his peak as he has dies and resurrected, forcing a time rewind

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also love how youre counting votes when no argument for how Legion actually beats the Hunter has even been presented lmao

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean I think Legion has perfectly fine wincons, Weekly, everyone can have opinions based off arguments presented. Especially since the hunter does not have fine wincons that would work in 1000000 years

 

[azontr]

Also love how youre counting votes when no argument for how Legion actually beats the Hunter has even been presented lmao

Plenty of arguments have been presented lol, you not thinking those arguments are valid is an entirely different story. You don't get to decide which votes are valid and which votes are not. You aren't God of VSmatches.

 

[azontr]

Correct

Yes, it takes him back to the Lantern fully restored to his peak as he has dies and resurrected, forcing a time rewind

This arguments is inherently contradictory.

I bring up video footage of the Hunter's Mark not being death-based, and you did not deny this. Then I bring up the fact that the Hunter's Mark and the Bold Hunter's Mark have the exact same teleportation effect, the only difference is that the Bold version does not remove Blood Echoes. You agree with this. But then you suddenly disagree with this?

Do you see the contradiction, my friend?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Plenty of arguments have been presented lol, you not thinking those arguments are valid is an entirely different story. You don't get to decide which votes are valid and which votes are not. You aren't God of VSmatches.

I mean I think Legion has perfectly fine wincons, Weekly, everyone can have opinions based off arguments presented. Especially since the hunter does not have fine wincons that would work in 1000000 years

Such as? The only arguments presented so far are mind vore, which would kill Legion, and as you brought up, shrinking the Hunter and putting him in a jar, which the Hunter has multip[le methods of invalidating. So yes, no viable argument for how Legion wins has been presented.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This arguments is inherently contradictory.

I bring up video footage of the Hunter's Mark not being death-based, and you did not deny this. Then I bring up the fact that the Hunter's Mark and the Bold Hunter's Mark have the exact same teleportation effect, the only difference is that the Bold version does not remove Blood Echoes. You agree with this. But then you suddenly disagree with this?

Do you see the contradiction, my friend?

The argument is not contradictory not. The Hunter's Mark kills the Hunter, which forces a time rewind. That is how it works. It is quite easy to understand. Them having the same animation means nothing when the effects themselves are different. The same teleportation effect plays when the Hunter dies too.

 

[azontr]

Such as? The only arguments presented so far are mind vore, which would kill Legion, and as you brought up, shrinking the Hunter and putting him in a jar, which the Hunter has multip[le methods of invalidating. So yes, no viable argument for how Legion wins has been presented.

He doesn't have multiple methods of invalidating shit, I've been over this, you just happen to not think their valid, which doesn't exactly matter, because you don't get to decide which votes aren't and are valid.

The argument is not contradictory not

Saying it's not contradictory isn't a counter-argument when I've explained my argument and you have not.

The same teleportation effect plays when the Hunter dies too.

No, it does not.


You're just saying shit to say shit. I've provided both evidence and explanations to this evidence that support my argument, and all that you have provided is just words with no meaning.

So, really, I have to ask, what valid win conditions does The Hunter have, Weekly? Cause I see not a single one.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

He doesn't have multiple methods of invalidating shit, I've been over this, you just happen to not think their valid, which doesn't exactly matter, because you don't get to decide which votes aren't and are valid.

He does yes, just because you do not wish to accept this fact because you want Legion to win this does not make what i am saying any less true. Trying to mind vore the Hunter kills Legion due to exposing him to madness, teleporting the Hunter away wont work as the Hunter just teleports back, trapping the Hunter gets countered by the Hunter just teleporting out or killing himself to reset time, and as of yet you have no other argument provided than 'Legion just prays the Hunter gives up' which isnt going to happen.

Saying it's not contradictory isn't a counter-argument when I've explained my argument and you have not.

I have explained my argument. You just said 'no' and are now arguing from disbelief. I know the verse. You do not. I am telling you how the power works. If you dont like it then make a CRT, otherwise quit trying to spin this like im making no arguments and accept the facts.

No, it does not.


You're just saying shit to say shit. I've provided both evidence and explanations to this evidence that support my argument, and all that you have provided is just words with no meaning.

And now youre just bold-faced lying. Really? Youre that desperate to make your character win that youre just ignoring everything about how the Hunter's powers work as well as ignoring all of the evidence ive provided. Very nice, best debating, 10 out of 10.

So, really, I have to ask, what valid win conditions does The Hunter have, Weekly? Cause I see not a single one.

He doesnt, I already said this is inconclusive as neither have an actual way to put the other down aside from the aforementioned instance where Legion accidentally kills himself with madness by trying to mindvore the Hunter.

 

[azontr]

I have explained my argument. You just said 'no' and are now arguing from disbelief. I know the verse. You do not. I am telling you how the power works. If you dont like it then make a CRT, otherwise quit trying to spin this like im making no arguments and accept the facts.

I don't have to make a CRT for shit actually, the Hunter being able to force time resets isn't even on his profile. I don't need to know a verse to know that what you are saying is blatant crap based on actual video evidence (which you straight up haven't provided once).

And now youre just bold-faced lying. Really? Youre that desperate to make your character win that youre just ignoring everything about how the Hunter's powers work as well as ignoring all of the evidence ive provided. Very nice, best debating, 10 out of 10.

??? Lying? What? Weekly, how am I lying? The video evidence is directly in front of your face. I have provided evidence and explanations to all of my claims. There is no lying in my rhetoric, so don't accuse me of "lying". Your claims quite literally aren't substantiated by any of the evidence and isn't even ON THE DAMN PROFILE.

If anything, you are straight-up lying to my face by ignoring blatant video evidence in favor of your own faulty interpretation, which isn't even on the profile. THAT is lying.

Trying to mind vore the Hunter kills Legion due to exposing him to madness

He can just not vore his mind. He can make that decision, Weekly.

the Hunter away wont work as the Hunter just teleports back,

The Hunter's teleportation isn't even half as versatile as Legion's, nor has the Hunter ever dealt with teleportation as potent or as spammed.

trapping the Hunter gets countered by the Hunter just teleporting out or killing himself to reset time

Teleporting out is effectively self-BFR and gives the Hunter no advantage other than giving Legion more time to learn his abilities and just do literally anything.

The Hunter commiting suicide via physical means is easily circumventable. If you mean through Mark's, those don't reverse time, so they are effectively useless, and only serve as an option of self-BFR (again).

and as of yet you have no other argument provided than 'Legion just prays the Hunter gives up' which isnt going to happen.

Says you who has provided no evidence to substantiate the claims of his arguments for a verse he is seemingly "knowledgeable" on

I'm starting to think I know more than you if you cannot even do such basic things like supporting your claims with evidence

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I don't have to make a CRT for shit actually, the Hunter being able to force time resets isn't even on his profile. I don't need to know a verse to know that what you are saying is blatant crap based on actual video evidence (which you straight up haven't provided once).

??? Lying? What? Weekly, how am I lying? The video evidence is directly in front of your face. I have provided evidence and explanations to all of my claims. There is no lying in my rhetoric, so don't accuse me of "lying". Your claims quite literally aren't substantiated by any of the evidence and isn't even ON THE DAMN PROFILE.

If anything, you are straight-up lying to my face by ignoring blatant video evidence in favor of your own faulty interpretation, which isn't even on the profile. THAT is lying.

It is in fact on his profile

So yes, you are lying. Again, unless you make a CRT, please kindly stop acting like you know what youre talking about.

He can just not vore his mind. He can make that decision, Weekly.

Ye, but other than that he cant really put the Hunter down

The Hunter's teleportation isn't even half as versatile as Legion's, nor has the Hunter ever dealt with teleportation as potent or as spammed.

Doesnt need to be, all it needs to do is bring the Hunter back to the battlefield.

Teleporting out is effectively self-BFR and gives the Hunter no advantage other than giving Legion more time to learn his abilities and just do literally anything.

You keep using that term, 'Self-BFR', i do not think you know what it means. Self-BFR implies the Hunter is running away and trying to avoid fighting via teleportation, which he is not. At most he teleports to the Hunter's Dream for a few minutes before coming back to the battlefield. He is not leaving for the full week required for it to be a win via BFR, so calling it 'Self-BFR' is wrong.

The Hunter commiting suicide via physical means is easily circumventable. If you mean through Mark's, those don't reverse time, so they are effectively useless, and only serve as an option of self-BFR (again).

The marks do in fact reverse time. Again, dont like that they do that, make a CRT. This is getting to the point of being RVT worthy.

Says you who has provided no evidence to substantiate the claims of his arguments for a verse he is seemingly "knowledgeable" on

I'm starting to think I know more than you if you cannot even do such basic things like supporting your claims with evidence

Boyo, you posted the same videos i would have posted, and i posted the official Bloodborne website's descriptions of the abilities. Not sure what else youre expecting tbh. All o my claims have been backed by evidence, you simply refuse to accept that evidence as it means that Legion cant do shit to the Hunter.