The Devil VS The Moon-Scented (Legion VS The Hunter - Battle for 5th Strongest Non-Smurf 7-C)

[azontr]

So yes, you are lying. Again, unless you make a CRT, please kindly stop acting like you know what youre talking about.

I didn't see that on the profile, it's quite long, so forgive me for missing it. But simply not seeing something on a profile does not make me a liar. Thats quite a rude insinuation.

Though, I do heavily disagree with this, and believe it should be removed from the profile. So I might just make a CRT to have it removed.

Doesnt need to be, all it needs to do is bring the Hunter back to the battlefield.

Assuming Legion is teleporting Hunter outside of the battlefield constantly? Teleporting him away at sizable distances while still playing with him inside of the battlefield is still a thing well within his capabilities.

You keep using that term, 'Self-BFR', i do not think you know what it means. Self-BFR implies the Hunter is running away and trying to avoid fighting via teleportation, which he is not. At most he teleports to the Hunter's Dream for a few minutes before coming back to the battlefield. He is not leaving for the full week required for it to be a win via BFR, so calling it 'Self-BFR' is wrong.

It's just a phrase I use, Weekly. I know he is not removing himself from the battlefield for weeks. But removing himself from the battlefield in any capacity is still battlefield removal.

I use the term loosely.

The marks do in fact reverse time. Again, dont like that they do that, make a CRT. This is getting to the point of being RVT worthy.

Report me for what, missing something on a very long profile lol?

Boyo,

Stop calling me Boyo. I am an adult man.

you posted the same videos i would have posted,

But you didn't.

and i posted the official Bloodborne website's descriptions of the abilities

So did I. I also provided video evidence.

sure what else youre expecting tbh

One usually expects more than nothing.

All o my claims have been backed by evidence

Incorrect.

you simply refuse to accept that evidence as it means that Legion cant do shit to the Hunter.

I refuse to accept it because I believe it to be incorrect. Not because I give a shit about my obscure ass webtoon character (of a webtoon that keeps teasing me by going on hiatus every week so I hate it more and more) winning a VSWiki match-up. I am an adult man, and I would like to think you'd believe that I have more important things to worry about than a character winning?

Since Hunter's Mark stuff seems to be on the profile (albeit, I do disagree with it) I will concede with an inconclusive conclusion, and believe Hunter and Legion should share the spot of 5th strongest.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Stop calling me Boyo. I am an adult man.

An adult man arguing with a clown on a battle boarding forum at 3 AM

 

[azontr]

Can't sleep. Insomnia is a bitch to deal with.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Zamn.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I didn't see that on the profile, it's quite long, so forgive me for missing it. But simply not seeing something on a profile does not make me a liar. Thats quite a rude insinuation.

Sigh...alright thats understandable, sorry, though you could have at least asked where on the profile it was rather than assuming it wasnt there to begin with, i would have had no problem with showing it sooner

Though, I do heavily disagree with this, and believe it should be removed from the profile. So I might just make a CRT to have it removed.

I mean youre free to do so sure but the description of both the Hunter's Mark and Bold Hunter's Mark kinda solidify it as res, and it is the same item as stuff in all the other Souls games that just straight up kills you and revives you.

Assuming Legion is teleporting Hunter outside of the battlefield constantly? Teleporting him away at sizable distances while still playing with him inside of the battlefield is still a thing well within his capabilities.

How is teleporting the Hunter around the battlefield going to make Legion win?

It's just a phrase I use, Weekly. I know he is not removing himself from the battlefield for weeks. But removing himself from the battlefield in any capacity is still battlefield removal.

You take issue with me using the phrase 'boyo' sooooo

I mean, sure, in that sense it is, but it wouldnt result in a loss for the Hunter for doing so.

Report me for what, missing something on a very long profile lol?

I assumed you had looked through the profile before arguing about what the Hunter can and cant do, you are the OP after all lol

But you didn't.

So did I. I also provided video evidence.

One usually expects more than nothing.

Incorrect.

Which ones have not been backed by evidence?

I refuse to accept it because I believe it to be incorrect. Not because I give a shit about my obscure ass webtoon character (of a webtoon that keeps teasing me by going on hiatus every week so I hate it more and more) winning a VSWiki match-up. I am an adult man, and I would like to think you'd believe that I have more important things to worry about than a character winning?

Since Hunter's Mark stuff seems to be on the profile (albeit, I do disagree with it) I will concede with an inconclusive conclusion, and believe Hunter and Legion should share the spot of 5th strongest.

Im down with incon as well

 

[Hellscream]

What are the win conditions of legion?

 

[DaReaperMan]

What are the win conditions of legion?

What are the winconditions of Hunter? Lol

 

[azontr]

How is teleporting the Hunter around the battlefield going to make Legion win?

It should be obvious that if the Legion simply teleports the Hunter and his attack away from him every time that the Hunter tries to attack then it will be infinitely more difficult to defeat him lol. It doesn't have to be a teleportation so far that he goes OUTSIDE the city.

You take issue with me using the phrase 'boyo' sooooo

Different phrase, different meaning.

mean, sure, in that sense it is, but it wouldnt result in a loss for the Hunter for doing so.

Would result in Legion learning more about the Hunter's skillset each time he decides to just run away, making it more difficult as time goes on for the Hunter to defeat him (an already basically impossible task).

Which ones have not been backed by evidence?

None.

You sent a wiki page for The Hunter's Mark in one post and that's it.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Legion has infinite Stamina to either exhaust the hunter to the point of passing out or just knock him out the old fashioned way.

Knocking The Hunter out even though they have a 2× durability advantage? Knocking out The Hunter is a viable strat if you've got the striking power to do so, as seen with the Hypogean Gaol, but that's a tall ask when the person who has to do the knocking out is facing an AP difference similar to Apollo Creed vs Ivan Drago

 

[DaReaperMan]

Knocking The Hunter out even though they have a 2× durability advantage? Knocking out The Hunter is a viable strat if you've got the striking power to do so, as seen with the Hypogean Gaol, but that's a tall ask when the person who has to do the knocking out is facing an AP difference similar to Apollo Creed vs Ivan Drago

Or if you've got 1000 danmaku shots the size of the ****** you're fighting. That uh, that works too lol

 

[azontr]

Knocking The Hunter out even though they have a 2× durability advantage? Knocking out The Hunter is a viable strat if you've got the striking power to do so, as seen with the Hypogean Gaol, but that's a tall ask when the person who has to do the knocking out is facing an AP difference similar to Apollo Creed vs Ivan Drago

Legion has durability negation. Durability is irrelevant.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Or if you've got 1000 danmaku shots the size of the ****** you're fighting. That uh, that works too lol

That just kills the Hunter then they're back to the same old shit. Demon guy lacks the AP to knock out the Hunter in a small handful of hits, and seems to air towards extravagance, which would lead to just going overboard and killing The Hunter which causes them to get back up at the nearest lantern. There's a small window in between those extremes where The Hunter actually gets slept, and it seems like it's gonna be quite a while before that condition gets met. Which also begs the question of whether The Hunter will remain knocked out long enough for the wincon to be met

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Legion has durability negation. Durability is irrelevant.

Dura negation will just kill The Hunter
If you had the Hunter's immortalities and a 2x dura advantage and I shot you in the temple with a dura negating finger gun or sum shit it wouldn't knock you out, you'd just slump over dead then come out of your front door 5 seconds later asking what the hell my problem is or sumn

 

[azontr]

Dura negation will just kill The Hunter

The first time when Legion is unaware he can revive, yeah. After he realizes this, adjusting his attacks to just knock the Hunter out is something he both CAN and WILL do. He only will die when Legion WANTS him to die.

Plus, I doubt just some dura neg would kill him when has Type 2 Immortality lol.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

The first time when Legion is unaware he can revive, yeah. After he realizes this, adjusting his attacks to just knock the Hunter out is something he both CAN and WILL do. He only will die when Legion WANTS him to die.

Plus, I doubt just some dura neg would kill him when has Type 2 Immortality lol.

Getting danmaku'd with a small army of dura negating projectiles will do the trick against Hunter's Type 2

 

[azontr]

Getting danmaku'd with a small army of dura negating projectiles will do the trick against Hunter's Type 2

Which is something Legion can just choose NOT to do. He has literally every possible way to just NOT kill the Hunter, he holds every possible card, Hunter does not.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Which is something Legion can just choose NOT to do. He has literally every possible way to just NOT kill the Hunter, he holds every possible card, Hunter does not.

But will he? Going by his quote, summary, and the scans I've seen here, in-character he seems like someone who would just kill The Hunter ad nauseum for their own amusement

Secondly, there's a pretty fine line between what incaps and what kills The Hunter. The knockout that gets them dragged off to Hypogean Gaol is registered as a death in-game, and the attacks The Hunter survives that grant them their Type 2 still **** them up something fierce, pretty much always putting them at a sliver of life. So like I said, it's a pretty small needle to thread to put the Hunter to sleep through violence without killing them

Thirdly, we don't know how exactly the Moon Presence would respond to a more permanent incap attempt such as removing all of the Hunter's limbs, since that's something never displayed in canon. We know Moon Presence is willing to let The Hunter die since they'll just rewind time, or get knocked out cuz they'll just wake back up eventually. But the Moon Presence still views The Hunter as their adopted child and doesn't seem to be down with having any permanent harm befall them, so there's a somewhat decent chance even a (barely) non-death permanent incap gets reset

 

[azontr]

But will he? Going by his quote, summary, and the scans I've seen here, in-character he seems like someone who would just kill The Hunter ad nauseum for their own amusement

Secondly, there's a pretty fine line between what incaps and what kills The Hunter. The knockout that gets them dragged off to Hypogean Gaol is registered as a death in-game, and the attacks The Hunter survives that grant them their Type 2 still **** them up something fierce, pretty much always putting them at a sliver of life. So like I said, it's a pretty small needle to thread to put the Hunter to sleep through violence without killing them

Thirdly, we basically have no idea how the Moon Presence would respond to a more permanent incap attempt such as removing all of the Hunter's limbs, since that's something never displayed in canon. We know Moon Presence is willing to let The Hunter die since they'll just rewind time, or get knocked out cuz they'll just wake back up eventually. But the Moon Presence still views The Hunter as their adopted child and doesn't seem to be down with having any permanent harm befall them

If he decides that non-killing is necessary than obviously he won't kill.

Obviously, killing will indeed be his first resort. He kills people and ***** with them all the time. But the people he kills cannot straight-up reverse time to come back to life. Do you see the difference between Hunter and a normal opponent, that would make it so that Legion might not want to give him the chance to recuperate via a time reset?

Though Hunter doesn't need to be knocked out permanent. Via SBA he just has to be out for a day for it to be a victory lol.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

If he decides that non-killing is necessary than obviously he won't kill.

Obviously, killing will indeed be his first resort. He kills people and ***** with them all the time. But the people he kills cannot straight-up reverse time to come back to life. Do you see the difference between Hunter and a normal opponent, that would make it so that Legion might not want to give him the chance to recuperate via a time reset?

A good answer to the first point

 

[azontr]

Legion has also seemingly fought time reverse users in the past.

To even obtain his own time reversal Miracle (which he uses regularly), he had to have fought and defeated a Demon that had the Miracle first, since it's not originally his own power. I don't doubt his strategy during that fight would be similar to his strategy here.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Knocking The Hunter out even though they have a 2× durability advantage? Knocking out The Hunter is a viable strat if you've got the striking power to do so, as seen with the Hypogean Gaol, but that's a tall ask when the person who has to do the knocking out is facing an AP difference similar to Apollo Creed vs Ivan Drago

The Hunter also has an explicit resistance to being KOed going by the Blue Elixir's description

 

[azontr]

The Hunter also has an explicit resistance to being KOed going by the Blue Elixir's description

The Blue Elixir is an item which he has to physically consume for it to function.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Which is something Legion can just choose NOT to do. He has literally every possible way to just NOT kill the Hunter, he holds every possible card, Hunter does not.

If he tries that the Hunter just teleports back to the Hunter's Dream or offs himself, both of which would revert him to his peak

 

[azontr]

If he tries that the Hunter just teleports back to the Hunter's Dream or offs himself, both of which would revert him to his peak

He can do these things while unconscious...?

 

[SheevShezarrine]

All told, I vote that Legion wins, but it's a much messier and more frustrating win than the gg ez being posited. I'd say Legion kills Hunter a few hundred times just to **** with them and gauge their limits, then gets frustrated when knockout attempts don't stick, either by accidentally killing The Hunter, The Hunter getting up before the bell (knockout wincon takes one hour, and Hypogean Gaol is nowhere near that far away from Oedon Chapel where The Hunter got their socks knocked off), and quite possibly the Moon Presence having a fit whenever The Hunter is forced to cosplay the Black Knight from Monty Python and The Holy Grail. The Hunter then pisses off to level up, seeing no other way to get over their Legion-sized hurdle, and by SBA and tournament rules forfeits by default. Legion wins, but probably has gotten sick and tired of the fight by that point and never wants to see The Hunter's goth ass ever again

 

[azontr]

All told, I vote that Legion wins, but it's a much messier and more frustrating win than the gg ez being posited. I'd say Legion kills Hunter a few hundred times just to **** with them and gauge their limits, then gets frustrated when knockout attempts don't stick, either by accidentally killing The Hunter, The Hunter getting up before the bell (knockout wincon takes one hour, and Hypogean Gaol is nowhere near that far away from Oedon Chapel where The Hunter got their socks knocked off), and quite possibly the Moon Presence having a fit whenever The Hunter is forced to cosplay the Black Knight from Monty Python and The Holy Grail. The Hunter then pisses off to level up, seeing no other way to get over their Legion-sized hurdle, and by SBA and tournament rules forfeits by default. Legion wins, but probably has gotten sick and tired of the fight by that point and never wants to see The Hunter's goth ass ever again

This seems much less likely to happen when we can just call it a simple incon lol.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

The Hunter also has an explicit resistance to being KOed going by the Blue Elixir's description

General anesthesia and getting rocked across the jaw are not the same

 

[SheevShezarrine]

This seems much less likely to happen when we can just call it a simple incon lol.

The Hunter coming back to a boss fight after grinding is an in-character strat against opponents they have excessive difficulty with, and them losing from disqualification due to something they'd definitely canonically do in this sorta situation seems more likely than incon when it's within rules for their eldritch space mom to step in and rewind time whenever a permanent incap occurs

 

[DaReaperMan]

The Hunter coming back to a boss fight after grinding is an in-character strat against opponents they have excessive difficulty with, and them losing from disqualification due to something they'd definitely canonically do in this sorta situation seems more likely than incon when it's within rules for their eldritch space mom to step in and rewind time whenever a permanent incap occurs

The Moon Presence is a patient MFer, bro wants Hunter to murk Great ones and yet does nothing but Gehrman them when they got 0 cords, and doesn't just time rewind them to the beginning to get the cords.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

General anesthesia and getting rocked across the jaw are not the same

I mean, th Hunter can keep going after having their brain impaled multiple times, I feel like that's more than just getting punched in the face

 

[WeeklyBattles]

All told, I vote that Legion wins, but it's a much messier and more frustrating win than the gg ez being posited. I'd say Legion kills Hunter a few hundred times just to **** with them and gauge their limits, then gets frustrated when knockout attempts don't stick, either by accidentally killing The Hunter, The Hunter getting up before the bell (knockout wincon takes one hour, and Hypogean Gaol is nowhere near that far away from Oedon Chapel where The Hunter got their socks knocked off), and quite possibly the Moon Presence having a fit whenever The Hunter is forced to cosplay the Black Knight from Monty Python and The Holy Grail. The Hunter then pisses off to level up, seeing no other way to get over their Legion-sized hurdle, and by SBA and tournament rules forfeits by default. Legion wins, but probably has gotten sick and tired of the fight by that point and never wants to see The Hunter's goth ass ever again

I mean, even by SBA standards 'giving up' is not a wincon, the characters are not going to just give up, especially the Hunter

 

[azontr]

Fray mfs and Hunter already share a spot on the strongest list so idgaf about this match anymore lol

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Fray mfs and Hunter already share a spot on the strongest list so idgaf about this match anymore lol

Honestly best take ngl