Moriarty Profile Name Change

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Archer (James Moriarty) should have his profile name changed to either Archer of Shinjuku (Moriarty/James Moriarty) or just straight up Archer of Shinjuku. This is for multiple reasons:

1) His more official title is Archer of Shinjuku. He isn't just a normal archer either, since he is a fusion of 2 legends, and hence his unique name. He is a unique Archer who occurd in Shinjuku, and was then summoned by the Chaldea system after this fact.

2) It draws on the precendent that we set with the Fate/Apocrypha Servants. Even tho we could call them Lancer (Karna), Rider (Astolfo), etc. we chose to call them by what they are more commonly known as in their origin. For Moriarty, that would be Archer of Shinjuku.

4) It also draws on the precedent that has been set by other servants as well. We often go on either their first or most well known version for their name scene. We don't call him Assassin (Hassan of Cursed Arm), we call him True Assassi. We don't Call him Berserker (Jack The Ripper), we call him False Berserker. So on and so forth. This is also true for all of the "Playable" servants.

5) He is more commonly known as that. This is more subjective but most times I have discussed or seen him discussed he has been called Archer of Shunjuku, or just Moriarty. I cannot exactly quantify this but this has been my experience with it.

6) It sounds cooler ovo

For these reasons, I think it should be changed to either Archer of Shinjuku (James Moriarty), Archer of Shinjuku (Moriarty), or Archer or Shunjuku. I think the first of these options is the best

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Bump

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Bump

 

[Reppuzan]

Why? We already refer to Tomoe Gozen by her real name. This does nothing but obfuscate the profiles.

I don't mind including a redirect, but changing the name is pointless.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

For the reasons I stated above. It is the more official name, and it sounds better. This is not just moriarty, it is him fused with the Hunter whos bullets never miss.

About Tomoe Gozen. I am not familiar with them, do they have a more official name?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Iapitus

"It sounds better" is subjective.

The character identifies himself as Moriarty and the base of the character is Moriarty.

Natsu Dragneel's full name is Etherious Natsu Dragneel, but we call him Natsu Dragneel because that's what he identifies as.

Tomoe Gozen is referred to as Archer Inferno during Shimosa. At the same time, Raikou is referred to as K─ülasütra Hell Rider in the same chapter. It's clearer and less confusing to refer to the Servants by their real names in F/GO.

We had a bad habit of naming our profiles the same way the Type-Moon Wiki did and it's better to break old habits now.

 

[RegisNex1232]

More official/sounding better is meaningless here. This is a page meant to tell people what X can do, and getting into a fuss about a title not referenced post name reveal is pointless.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I know, as is in the OP, that part isn't a legit argument.

Yes, but he is not the existence that is just Moriarty.

By that logic, we should simply call him Moriarty (Fate), which I am not totally against. The 2 fused is known as Archer of Shinjuku, so if we are going to call him by a class title then a more specific designation.

Is she a unique existence in her origin? I am not opposed to refering the her has Archer Inferno, but I am not informed on her.

Type-Moon wiki actually doesn't call him Archer of Shinjuku, but some other fate websites and profiles do

 

[RegisNex1232]

Archer (JM) gets to the point a lot better than anything else and there's a section in the profile where you can add his various titles if necessary. Aka no point in renaming.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

More official/sounding better is meaningless here. This is a page meant to tell people what X can do, and getting into a fuss about a title not referenced post name reveal is pointless.

Yes, but a more precise name is matters. Many know him as Archer of Shinjuku. If you do not care, then that is fine, but I am of the view it matters. There is no reason to oppose it if you do not care

 

[Reppuzan]

@Iapitus

He's referred to as an Archer as part of his class, but his character is Moriarty.

You're acting like he's the only Servant with an alias when we've made virtually every other Servant profile in Epic of Remnant without their special title.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Archer (JM) gets to the point a lot better than anything else and there's a section in the profile where you can add his various titles if necessary. Aka no point in renaming.

Archer is not his name. He is Archer of Shinjuku. It also differentiates him from the others, and he is not a conventional existence.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I'm still not seeing the point of renaming the pages when adding it in the profile summaries and Names is available.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Iapitus

All Servants are referred to be their class name.

You summon him as Archer, not Archer of Shinjuku. It's just a title they gave him until they figured out what his True Name was.

We don't do this for Yan Qing or Hessian Lobo either.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Iapitus
He's referred to as an Archer as part of his class, but his character is Moriarty.

You're acting like he's the only Servant with an alias when we've made virtually every other Servant profile in Epic of Remnant without their special title.

The Archer part of his class doesn't even come from Moriarty, that comes from the dude he is fused with.

I was not aware of the others. If that is their more official title, then he should be refered to as that.

 

[RegisNex1232]

As a Servant he's Archer, as a person he's James Moriarty. Hence Archer (James Moriarty). Complaining about how he's a fusion of Phantoms is pointless when it's something that can be noted in the profile and ultimately has no effect on what characters call him.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Iapitus
All Servants are referred to be their class name.

You summon him as Archer, not Archer of Shinjuku. It's just a title they gave him until they figured out what his True Name was.

We don't do this for Yan Qing or Hessian Lobo either.

But he is refered to as Archer of Shinjuku. I see this as the same reason we call Karna Lancer of Red or Siegfried Saber of Black.

The profile is not just for him while in Chaldea. It is him while he is in the singularity. He is a unique existence born from Shinjuku, so he should be refered to as such

Idk about Yan Qin, but the servant that is Hessian Lobo is the name of the fusion. Hessian Lobo is its own heroic spirit as far as I can tell, while Archer of Shinjuku is explicitly the fusion of 2 legends that would not be one otherwise

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

> Avenger (Hessian Lobo), Assassin (Yan Qing), Archer (Tomoe Gozen), Assassin (Wu Zetian), Saber (Munenori Yagyü), Berserker (Penthesilea), and Rider (Christopher Columbus)".

And yet like Moriarty, none of these guys aren't named by their EoR names like Yan Qing not being called "Assassin of Shinjuku" or Tomoe's "Archer Inferno" name or the such. I really don't see the point of even calling him as "Archer of Shinjuku" when he's already known now as James Moriarty (or even just Moriarty sometimes), especially since he's been out since 2017 on Japan's servers and has since then been known by his real name.

Same case with the others I linked above yet you ignored me about them around when I posted Moriarty.

It's already bad enough for me to come here by Ever to even just point these guys out anyways. All I know is I find no point in changing Moriarty's name lest the others from EoR should change theirs too if that's a problem.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

As a Servant he's Archer, as a person he's James Moriarty. Hence Archer (James Moriarty). Complaining about how he's a fusion of Phantoms is pointless when it's something that can be noted in the profile and ultimately has no effect on what characters call him.

We name servants for their class and title. Hence the Apoc and Strange Fake servants. Moriarty technically isn't even an Archer, normally he would be a completely different class and being, but the fusion is an Archer. The existence is Archer of Shinjuku. I am not explaining, persay, but it is not as precise nor as correct. His class is already conveyed in his title so there is no reason to go for the less precise name.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Iapitus

Again, that's a leftover bad habit from our tendency to name profiles after their Type-Moon Wiki counterparts. It's more succinct and clearer to use just their class designation and their name.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

> Avenger (Hessian Lobo), Assassin (Yan Qing), Archer (Tomoe Gozen), Assassin (Wu Zetian), Saber (Munenori Yagyü), Berserker (Penthesilea), and Rider (Christopher Columbus)".
And yet like Moriarty, none of these guys aren't named by their EoR names like Yan Qing not being called "Assassin of Shinjuku" or Tomoe's "Archer Inferno" name or the such. I really don't see the point of even calling him as "Archer of Shinjuku" when he's already known now as James Moriarty (or even just Moriarty sometimes), especially since he's been out since 2017 on Japan's servers and has since then been known by his real name.

Same case with the others I linked above yet you ignored me about them around when I posted Moriarty.

It's already bad enough for me to come here by Ever to even just point these guys out anyways. All I know is I find no point in changing Moriarty's name lest the others from EoR should change theirs too if that's a problem.

That's because Archer of Shinjuku was the only one on my Radar. I was not knowledgable nor aware of the others. I am not omniscient. That is why I did not bring him up. I did not know them, I did not ignore them. If they have a more precise name, then they should be refered to it a such.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Iapitus
Again, that's a leftover bad habit from our tendency to name profiles after their Type-Moon Wiki counterparts. It's more succinct and clearer to use just their class designation and their name.

If we wanted to be separated from The Type Moom wiki, then it would be better to call them something like Artoria (Saber) or something like that. I assume you don't want to change them all, however. Archer of Shinjuku, Lancer of Red, Berserker of El Derado, False Berserker, etc. are more precise and get across their class container as well

 

[RegisNex1232]

There's no point in doing so as it's meaningless.

Instead, @Repp, if you want to, we could just take out all the fancy titles from other profiles.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

It does have meaning. It is more precise in additon to what I already said above.

I would not be opposed except for the massive project it would take. Otherwise I would prefer we called them all like Gilgamesh (Fate), and then just broke up the classes into different keys.

 

[RegisNex1232]

There is literally nothing more precise than Servant Class, Name. Anything else is literal fluff. And you haven't given anything else worth debating.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Yes, there is. False Berserker is more precise than just Berserker. Archer of Red is more precise then just Archer. And by the same metric Archer of Shinjuku is more precise then Archer. If you do not wish to debate them, that is your own wish, but it makes them no less valid. I draw on precedence and it being more official as well.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Are you intentionally ignoring the "Servant Class, Name" part just because you think False/Red/Shinjuku sounds cooler? How on earth is the current profile less precise? You've shown nothing beyond personal preference and aesthetics which aren't exactly good reasons.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Finally back from my ban. I'm not ignoring it, the name should be there too, I do not dispute that. Archer, name is inherently less precise because it conveys less information, and is less specific, thus by definition it is less precise. I have shown multiple reasons, but you seem to not acknowledge them, such as precedent and precision.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

I don't really have a stake in this, but for what my opinion's worth I think we should just dispose of all this Lancer of Red and Lancer (Fate/Zero) and Lancer (fate/Stay Night) stuff and just say Lancer (Karna), Lancer (Diarmuid), and Lancer (Doggo)

 

[JBennett]

The title Archer of Shinjuku seems more like a nickname the game gave rather then a real title, It seems to indicate that he is the Archer servant of the Shinjuku Singularity. If we write his name as Archer of Shinjuku then it would imply an Archer that lived in Shinjuku but he isn't since he's a Servant.

If he is a fusion then what is he a fusion of? And who is he more base of? James or the other person?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Jennett

He's a fusion of Moriarty and the Huntsman from Der Freischutz.

He clearly identifies as Moriarty as the dominant personality but freely utilizes the Huntsman's abilities.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Reppuzan makes sense.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I think that Reppuzan makes sense.

In which regard?

 

[Antvasima]

The naming of the page.

 

[Antvasima]

@Iapitus

"It sounds better" is subjective.

The character identifies himself as Moriarty and the base of the character is Moriarty.

Natsu Dragneel's full name is Etherious Natsu Dragneel, but we call him Natsu Dragneel because that's what he identifies as.

Tomoe Gozen is referred to as Archer Inferno during Shimosa. At the same time, Raikou is referred to as K─ülasütra Hell Rider in the same chapter. It's clearer and less confusing to refer to the Servants by their real names in F/GO.

We had a bad habit of naming our profiles the same way the Type-Moon Wiki did and it's better to break old habits now.

This.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Seeing as that should settle whether we are changing the Moriarty's name, should we discuss changing the other profile names like Saber (Fate/stay night) to Saber (Artoria) etc for uniformity or leave that topic for another CRT and just close this one?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Seeing as that should settle whether we are changing the Moriarty's name, should we discuss changing the other profile names like Saber (Fate/stay night) to Saber (Artoria) etc for uniformity or leave that topic for another CRT and just close this one?

I guess we can just keep using the thread