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From the new issue of Thor:
Phoenix Jean >>> Phoenix Rachel >> Phoenix Logan.
Phoenix Jean >>> Phoenix Rachel >> Phoenix Logan.
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More new Phoenix Avatar Feats
- Thread starter ΚΟΜΙΞ
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #3
We don't know how he killed the Phoenix... Or which Phoenix host to be precise.Luck100 said:
The Phoenix itself recently once again said that Jean's power and control as Phoenix is unparalleled. Also there many stories that point that Jean is the true host. Also Rachel was said at many stories back in Excalibur era not to have the same power as her mother. Rachel is Jean's daughter so she should have more power and control than Logan.
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He killed logan and phoenix, so phoenix rebirthed and revived logan.
The Jean Grey may be the true host of phoenix, but in my opnion we should see the feats instead upgrade Jean Grey or Rachel to 3-A. But i don't know if Jean grey phoenix should scale with Cosmic Berseker wolverine or Old king Thor.
The Jean Grey may be the true host of phoenix, but in my opnion we should see the feats instead upgrade Jean Grey or Rachel to 3-A. But i don't know if Jean grey phoenix should scale with Cosmic Berseker wolverine or Old king Thor.
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- Thread starter
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More Phoenix Wolvie feats:
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Do you anticipate White Pheonix getting an upgrade too? Or will she remain at Low 2-C?╬Ü╬ƒ╬£╬Ö╬× said:
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Bump.
Regular Jean Grey fought Phoenix Force Avatar Rachel on even footing in X-Men Red... And Jean made a comment in said comic that she's stronger now without the Phoenix Force, and it actually held back her latent powers .. And multiple statements implied she's far stronger now than any other time in history. So... Yeah.
Regular Jean Grey fought Phoenix Force Avatar Rachel on even footing in X-Men Red... And Jean made a comment in said comic that she's stronger now without the Phoenix Force, and it actually held back her latent powers .. And multiple statements implied she's far stronger now than any other time in history. So... Yeah.
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@KOMI.... I plan to make them far higher than mere Universal Level+ if what I proposed goes through. As for now though .. I agree with Universal Level Avatars.
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- Thread starter
- #15
I was thinking since there is only one Phoenix and in a Universe it was said that Eternity and the other Abstracts feared Jean Grey more than anything as Phoenix wouldn't that make Phoenix in general the Abstract that the alll others fear so it is superior to them?
Also in many occassions Death said that he has no authority for the souls Phoenbix chooses to pull to the White Hot Room and can not do anything to it.
Also in many occassions Death said that he has no authority for the souls Phoenbix chooses to pull to the White Hot Room and can not do anything to it.
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@KOMI And yes it likely would. She does have multiple statements supporting it.
Not to mentioned Roma , who has a High 1-B power source ( Othwrworld + Starlight Citadel ) said she cannot effect Phoenix Force Rachel with her powers because the Phoenix won't let her. The implications of that by itself is insane.
Also... Remember the feat everyone in their mother was talking about was a High 1-B feat for Phoenix Force ? That was directly stated to be one of it's Avatars... A small aspect of the Avatar at that. It was heavily implied to be a aspect of the Universal Avatar of the Phoenix Force.
Not to mentioned Roma , who has a High 1-B power source ( Othwrworld + Starlight Citadel ) said she cannot effect Phoenix Force Rachel with her powers because the Phoenix won't let her. The implications of that by itself is insane.
Also... Remember the feat everyone in their mother was talking about was a High 1-B feat for Phoenix Force ? That was directly stated to be one of it's Avatars... A small aspect of the Avatar at that. It was heavily implied to be a aspect of the Universal Avatar of the Phoenix Force.
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Yes indeed . We have Abstracts like Death, Eternity, Infinity, Galactus to praise and fear the Phoenix. I for one believe that the whole Force should be at least High 1B. Managed to hurt God Doom who is now 1A.
As for the avatars Phoenix Five Magik was feared by Dormammu. So she should be more powerful. Also I have read that in the Dark Phoenix Saga, back then Jean hadn't reached her full potential as an Avatar.
Also we had Galactus at his weakest as 4A and when he absorbs and converts power from planets its not just 5B power. Dark Phoenix has done that with a star system in the past. Imagine is like the same method but to compare a planet to a star system... Ther difference...
As for the avatars Phoenix Five Magik was feared by Dormammu. So she should be more powerful. Also I have read that in the Dark Phoenix Saga, back then Jean hadn't reached her full potential as an Avatar.
Also we had Galactus at his weakest as 4A and when he absorbs and converts power from planets its not just 5B power. Dark Phoenix has done that with a star system in the past. Imagine is like the same method but to compare a planet to a star system... Ther difference...
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First off.... I plan to upgrade the Universal Abstracts far higher than merely Universal KOMI . I also personally do not see the Multi-Abstracts as that much weaker than Oblivion or Living Tribunal. In-Fact, Eternity was supposedly 1/3rd of LT's power anyways.
I can agree with the rest of your statements.
I can agree with the rest of your statements.
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So, should I post all the Phoenix Force feats that I have in my collection
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Okay
1. It is stated Dark Phoenix would destroy the Universe (possibly 3-A statement)
2. The Shi'ar consider Phoenix Force as the end of all existence (possibly 3-A statement)
3. Stated to possess infinite energy and overloads Necrom. Keep in mind Necrom was going to absorb the power of energy matrix for himself and crunch the Multiverse
4. Poses a threat to creation as great as M'Kraan Crystal (at least Low 2-C)
5. Superior to Death Seed, who were going to consume the Multiverse (possibly 2-A)
6. Without Phoenix Force, stars and life would cease to exist, and Galactus says Rachel can destroy a Universe (possibly Low 2-C)
7. In an alternate reality, Gabriel inherits the Force and Watchers state he will destroy them (also destroys galaxies on panel; at least 3-C)
8. Gabriel was going to consume all reality (Low 2-C)
9. Phoenix Force is the Big Bang. Now this is important because Big Bang is supposed to be the origin of all creation, all that was or will be (possibly High 1-B)
10. Equal to House of M Scarlet Witch, whom I can argue is 2-A (so can Seed)
11. Galactus says Rachel is a threat on par with an alternate version of Impossible Ma, who threatened the Omniverse
Now you people are free to interpret it the way you want, and majority of the scans I have posted are in regards of consistency.
1. It is stated Dark Phoenix would destroy the Universe (possibly 3-A statement)
2. The Shi'ar consider Phoenix Force as the end of all existence (possibly 3-A statement)
3. Stated to possess infinite energy and overloads Necrom. Keep in mind Necrom was going to absorb the power of energy matrix for himself and crunch the Multiverse
4. Poses a threat to creation as great as M'Kraan Crystal (at least Low 2-C)
5. Superior to Death Seed, who were going to consume the Multiverse (possibly 2-A)
6. Without Phoenix Force, stars and life would cease to exist, and Galactus says Rachel can destroy a Universe (possibly Low 2-C)
7. In an alternate reality, Gabriel inherits the Force and Watchers state he will destroy them (also destroys galaxies on panel; at least 3-C)
8. Gabriel was going to consume all reality (Low 2-C)
9. Phoenix Force is the Big Bang. Now this is important because Big Bang is supposed to be the origin of all creation, all that was or will be (possibly High 1-B)
10. Equal to House of M Scarlet Witch, whom I can argue is 2-A (so can Seed)
11. Galactus says Rachel is a threat on par with an alternate version of Impossible Ma, who threatened the Omniverse
Now you people are free to interpret it the way you want, and majority of the scans I have posted are in regards of consistency.
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I do agree with Pheonix having the potential to be 1-A. High 1-A will forever be out of her reach though.
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Bump. Let me go over Shiv's collection real quick (I'll only go over the ones that may or may not need more interpretation) :
2. Could actually be 2-A , possibly High 1-B because the context of that was including the Nexus of All Realities
3. Definitely High 1-B since this is the same comic that the Avatar (CANNOT stress that enough) of the Universal Phoenix Force (because they mention it was just one of many thorughout the Multiverse in that comic... And stated the one fighting Captain Britain when empowered by Roma was the same one who did the High 1-B feat... So.... consistency ?) first showed High 1-B. Also a feat for the Avatar Rachel since she was fighting on par with said Necrom. Keep in mind he was strong enough (before his amp) to be such a threat to Merlyn (Who created Otherworld) enough fear to literally hide in contempt... He had such a tiny fraction of the Phoenix Force it is almost laughable. He also stomped the Phoenix Force user who anchored the Pheonix that did the High 1-B feat to their reality, which requires some level of High 1-B levels.
4. Again the M'Krann Feat one is 2-A, possibly High 1-B because the M'Krann Crystal & Nexus of All Realities are equal in power... And if the Phoenix Avatar is as strong as the Nexus... That's definitely notable enough to be scalable to a extent . Especially considering the Goblin Force Avatar , the Phoenix Force's equal , fought someone empowered by the Nexus of All Realities as well. So it isn't something out of the blue to be compared to one . Plus I remember when he was fixing the M'Krann Crystal it was referring to the Multiverse in one panel during said event ... Need to look into that.
8 . All reality would include the Hot Room they are in... Whichw as compared to the Nexus of All Realities ... And he wasn't even considered even a remote threat to the Phoenix Force Avatars like Rachel and seemed to dismiss him as a threat. Otherwise they'd be more concerned,.... But they treated him literally like a child going to be put in time out for his actions.
10. Remember several people, include Matthew Schroeder believed the House of M Chaos Wave , which House of M Wanda scales to somewhat as the inclusion of it is still on her profile ... Is a High 1-B feat. Not to mention if the Universal Abstracts get upgraded to High 1-B she will as well... Since she canonically stomped those who scale somewhat to them when significantly bloodlusted (Dormammu) .
11. That's... surprisngly notable. Makes my revisions even more consistent than they already were.
2. Could actually be 2-A , possibly High 1-B because the context of that was including the Nexus of All Realities
3. Definitely High 1-B since this is the same comic that the Avatar (CANNOT stress that enough) of the Universal Phoenix Force (because they mention it was just one of many thorughout the Multiverse in that comic... And stated the one fighting Captain Britain when empowered by Roma was the same one who did the High 1-B feat... So.... consistency ?) first showed High 1-B. Also a feat for the Avatar Rachel since she was fighting on par with said Necrom. Keep in mind he was strong enough (before his amp) to be such a threat to Merlyn (Who created Otherworld) enough fear to literally hide in contempt... He had such a tiny fraction of the Phoenix Force it is almost laughable. He also stomped the Phoenix Force user who anchored the Pheonix that did the High 1-B feat to their reality, which requires some level of High 1-B levels.
4. Again the M'Krann Feat one is 2-A, possibly High 1-B because the M'Krann Crystal & Nexus of All Realities are equal in power... And if the Phoenix Avatar is as strong as the Nexus... That's definitely notable enough to be scalable to a extent . Especially considering the Goblin Force Avatar , the Phoenix Force's equal , fought someone empowered by the Nexus of All Realities as well. So it isn't something out of the blue to be compared to one . Plus I remember when he was fixing the M'Krann Crystal it was referring to the Multiverse in one panel during said event ... Need to look into that.
8 . All reality would include the Hot Room they are in... Whichw as compared to the Nexus of All Realities ... And he wasn't even considered even a remote threat to the Phoenix Force Avatars like Rachel and seemed to dismiss him as a threat. Otherwise they'd be more concerned,.... But they treated him literally like a child going to be put in time out for his actions.
10. Remember several people, include Matthew Schroeder believed the House of M Chaos Wave , which House of M Wanda scales to somewhat as the inclusion of it is still on her profile ... Is a High 1-B feat. Not to mention if the Universal Abstracts get upgraded to High 1-B she will as well... Since she canonically stomped those who scale somewhat to them when significantly bloodlusted (Dormammu) .
11. That's... surprisngly notable. Makes my revisions even more consistent than they already were.
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Patience brother
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Oof.... Anyways I believe a varies is note worthy. We also need to note that base Jean can fight on par with Rachel Grey, who was noted well before their fight as far stronger than ever before.
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I suppose that Shivansh's list of scans seems to be at least partially reliable, but we need more staff input before we perform any upgrades.
Here are some people that you can ask to comment here:
Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23.
Here are some people that you can ask to comment here:
Matthew Schroeder, Sandman31, Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot, Ryukama, Reppuzan, KLOL506, Zensum, TheC2, Nether nine, Crimson Azoth, Eficiente, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan, The Archdemon, Sera EX, Kepekley23.
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Bump.
I also have some feats for the Avatars on the Revision Blog if anyone is interested in that. I can post some here to help with the upgrade.
One of my main questions: Wouldn't Nate Grey be affected by The Phoenix Avatar upgrade though ? I mean he was shown to be at least as strong as Dark Phoenix through statements and feats:
I also have some feats for the Avatars on the Revision Blog if anyone is interested in that. I can post some here to help with the upgrade.
One of my main questions: Wouldn't Nate Grey be affected by The Phoenix Avatar upgrade though ? I mean he was shown to be at least as strong as Dark Phoenix through statements and feats:
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I do not think that Nate Grey has historically shown feats of anywhere near that scale, so it seems like hyperbole, but he may have created an alternative timeline in the "Age of X-Man" even, so maybe an extra key would be warranted from that?
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@Ant
Hmm... I see.... I'm not sure what to call that key... Maybe "Full Power" ?
Below are the scans I said I would collected. I may decide to make them full pictures to be viewed at your leisure, but keep in mind the quality may not be the best since I had to take this from a screenshot.
Scan 1: Stated (as Regular Phoenix) is able to ascend people across "The Infinite Vastness of Time & Space " [This was one of the very first feats of the Phoenix Force Avatar, either a bit before she truly became Dark Phoenix or currently is the Dark Phoenix]
Scan 2 (and support): Not really a feat, but we know that the Dark Phoenix repaired the M"Krann Crystal. This statement proves it was quite clearly a Multiversal Level+ Feat at Bare Minimum . The destruction of the M'Krann Crystal was stated as "Omniversal" (I know some of you are going to get triggered by this word usage), in which in context with the link may be not just one Multiverse, but Multiverses.
Scan 3: Dark Phoenix is described quite literally as "An Omniversal Force of Destruction " (It technically supports the above nicely, and I believe we take this as Author's Intent esque evidence... So I thought it would count)
Hmm... I see.... I'm not sure what to call that key... Maybe "Full Power" ?
Below are the scans I said I would collected. I may decide to make them full pictures to be viewed at your leisure, but keep in mind the quality may not be the best since I had to take this from a screenshot.
Scan 1: Stated (as Regular Phoenix) is able to ascend people across "The Infinite Vastness of Time & Space " [This was one of the very first feats of the Phoenix Force Avatar, either a bit before she truly became Dark Phoenix or currently is the Dark Phoenix]
Scan 2 (and support): Not really a feat, but we know that the Dark Phoenix repaired the M"Krann Crystal. This statement proves it was quite clearly a Multiversal Level+ Feat at Bare Minimum . The destruction of the M'Krann Crystal was stated as "Omniversal" (I know some of you are going to get triggered by this word usage), in which in context with the link may be not just one Multiverse, but Multiverses.
Scan 3: Dark Phoenix is described quite literally as "An Omniversal Force of Destruction " (It technically supports the above nicely, and I believe we take this as Author's Intent esque evidence... So I thought it would count)
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Based on the evidence presented and my own readings, the Phoenix Force is a multiversal abstract entity akin to Eternity that requires multiple keys.
The true Phoenix Force/Jean Grey as ´©ÅWhite Phoenix should be High 1-B like Eternity/Death/Lord Chaos/Master Order/etc., while its avatars/hosts very in power from "just" 4-B's to at least 2-C/possibly 2-A at most (besides White Phoenix) like Galactus and his own variable power, due to how well suited the host is or the strength of the connection due to emotional drama or whatever blanket excuse the writer could come up with (or they're just inconsistencies, but these are actual explanations in-verse).
So an at least 4-B standard/weak host key, an at least 2-C/possibly 2-A key for the strongest normal hosts/avatars can get, and a High 1-B key for the multiversal Phoenix Force/White Phoenix of the Crown.
The true Phoenix Force/Jean Grey as ´©ÅWhite Phoenix should be High 1-B like Eternity/Death/Lord Chaos/Master Order/etc., while its avatars/hosts very in power from "just" 4-B's to at least 2-C/possibly 2-A at most (besides White Phoenix) like Galactus and his own variable power, due to how well suited the host is or the strength of the connection due to emotional drama or whatever blanket excuse the writer could come up with (or they're just inconsistencies, but these are actual explanations in-verse).
So an at least 4-B standard/weak host key, an at least 2-C/possibly 2-A key for the strongest normal hosts/avatars can get, and a High 1-B key for the multiversal Phoenix Force/White Phoenix of the Crown.
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wouldn`t full power phoneix be 1A?It was able to protect people from the chaos wave when not even someone drawing power from the beyond could stop it
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Bump.
> Unsure if Chaos Wave was that high. > Matthew stated in the Previous Phoenix FOrce threat it qualifies for High 1-B
?????
> Unsure if Chaos Wave was that high. > Matthew stated in the Previous Phoenix FOrce threat it qualifies for High 1-B
?????
