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Jean Grey vs Jean Grey (Marvel Comics vs FOX)

RoTt35

RoTt35

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Jean Grey (Marvel Comics) vs Jean Grey (FOX)​

Match Rules: The first key of Jean Grey from Marvel Comics and Host of the Phoenix Force Jean Grey (second key) from FOX are being used, speed is equalized and both are in-character, the battle takes place in New York City and the starting distance is 50 meters. This is a very dumb match that will likely end badly

Comics Jean Grey: 3

FOX Jean Grey:

Inconclusive: 3
 
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To me the big thing will ultimately be skill and layered psychic scaling. But with that said, I feel like 616 Jean as an edge in both areas.

Not only is she notably more experienced with dealing with enemy psychics, she's far more familiar with dealing with the Phoniex Force and alternate versions of herself.

Combined with comparable to superior psychic scaling (FOX Jean is Amped > Her > Apoc > Xavier ~ vaguely planetary when boosted vs comics which have Jean > Xavier > multiple other telepaths with planetary or better showings) I feel like 616 Jean would win consistently more often.

If it does go to a physical fight, then I would still say 616 would edge out. While she has worse lifting strength, she maxes out better than FOX Jean. Even if she can't beat FOX Jean directly, the fight going on longer increases the chances of it becoming a TP duel, which favors 616 Jean imo.

So in the end I feel the comic version would edge out her counterpart.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Combined with comparable to superior psychic scaling (FOX Jean is Amped > Her > Apoc > Xavier ~ vaguely planetary when boosted vs comics which have Jean > Xavier > multiple other telepaths with planetary or better showings) I feel like 616 Jean would win consistently more often.
Click to expand...
This is the mind hax and resistance scaling of FOX Jean: Silverfox < Wolverine and Sabertooth (neither could be mind haxed without even trying to resist) < Future Past Charles (couldn’t even use his TP properly and was just off his X gene drug suppressant but could still bypass Logan’s defenses) < Jean w/mental nerf (could casually do the same to a bloodlusted Logan and took effort from a not super nerfed Charles to suppress) < Apocalypse Charles (had to mind hax Jean to suppress her memories and did so to calm her down) < Apocalypse (mentally stomped Charles) < Jean not holding back (completely annihilated Apocalypse’s mental form that was stomping Charles) < Jean has the Host of the Phoenix Force. Although I don't know if the layers or the range is more important

Also it should be noted that HotPF Jean uses Deconstruction + LS restraining as her first movement, which overcomes 616 Jean since she has no resistance and has less LS (Class T vs Class Z)
 
Incon?
both have good wincons, from TK to mind hax in character, this is basically an old west cowboy duel
 
If she has less layers, Imma be mega surprised considering just how many psychics are in the X-Men characters alone, let alone the wider Marvel universe she is in and then alternate timelines.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Planetary is just range. We need feats against resistances or else it don’t count anymore.
Click to expand...
The Hax page says the following:
When judging the potency of hax-based abilities such as Mind Manipulation and Soul Manipulation, and the resistance against them, there is a variety of factors to be potentially considered. Such as the mechanisms involved, how many people the power can affect, whether it has demonstrated to break through resistances, how great the effects are, etc.

Whether a power can overcome a resistance against it based on certain feats has to be determined by comparing the various factors at play. For example, a resistance can be overcome by Mind Manipulation with higher potency in any factor, if the resistance is equal, less or unknown in all other factors. When it comes to resistance that is above the Mind Manipulation in some factors, while the Mind Manipulation that is superior in other factors, one has to see on a case-by-case basis whether a convincing argument can be put forth. Otherwise, such a situation will have an inconclusive result.
Click to expand...
FOX Jean also has her Pain Manipulation against those who try to get into her mind, it was able to knock Charles unconscious
 
How the hell does mind manip page still say that when we had a long ass CRT accepting numbers =/= potency before 😭😭
 
AnonymousBlank said:
How the hell does mind manip page still say that when we had a long ass CRT accepting numbers =/= potency before 😭😭
Click to expand...
Bruh, so let's ignore that. Btw, do you think FOX's mind hax scale should have another layer between Apocalypse Charles and Apocalypse for Charles when he's using Cerebro? Since it amplifies his power but Apocalypse and Jean are still much far powerful than him
 
Eh. I dunno really. I only ever took Cerebro as a range boost but I suppose you could argue it does amp Charles’ potency since he still uses it even after Apocalypse where it’s stated he can affect the whole planet with his mind hax or smth. Thing is that we don’t have anything to connect Cerebro to Jean and Ooze afaik. It’s why I left it out of the mind hax scaling chain when I made it since it’s at best > PFH Jean but it would just exist alongside Apocalypse and Apoc Jean.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Eh. I dunno really. I only ever took Cerebro as a range boost but I suppose you could argue it does amp Charles’ potency since he still uses it even after Apocalypse where it’s stated he can affect the whole planet with his mind hax or smth.
Click to expand...
Apocalypse stated that Cerebro amplifies Charles' powers, and he needed Cerebro to enter Jean's mind since he couldn't normally. So I think it's safe to assume that Cerebro amplifies the potency of his mind hax
AnonymousBlank said:
Thing is that we don’t have anything to connect Cerebro to Jean and Ooze afaik.
Click to expand...
Apocalypse was able to control Charles while he was using Cerebro, and when Charles was being amplified by Apocalypse he didn't even try to control him. Well, and an unconscious Jean mentally stomped Charles while he was using Cerebro, knocking him unconscious
AnonymousBlank said:
It’s why I left it out of the mind hax scaling chain when I made it since it’s at best > PFH Jean but it would just exist alongside Apocalypse and Apoc Jean.
Click to expand...
According to what I said the scaling would be: Silverfox < Wolverine/Sabertooth < Charles (Future Past) < Jean w/mental nerf < Charles (Apocalypse) < Charles w/Cerebro < Apocalypse < Jean < HotPF Jean, and then you have Vuk at the top of the scale
 
Why are they voting FRA when there hasn't even been a debate yet? No one besides Qawsedf's first comment has given input for Comics Jean, we don't know how many layers of mind hax and resistance she has, nor how she can counter FOX Jean's Deconstruction and her far higher LS with TK. The only thing we know so far is that Comics Jean has far more experience
 
The Low 1-C mindhax for Xavier is valid (although it'll be Low 1-A once Ultima's Marvel revisions go through), especially since Marvel comics have similar mindhax feats, like Doctor Strange mindhaxing the Tier 1 Umar.

So yes, Comic Jean takes mindhax in spades.

As for who wins? Depends on whether Comic Jean mindhaxes first or FOX Jean deconstructs first.
 
Eseseso said:
As for who wins? Depends on whether Comic Jean mindhaxes first or FOX Jean deconstructs first.
Click to expand...
FOX Jean starts with Deconstruction, plus TK and Mind Hax but they wouldn't work, so if Comic Jean starts with Mind Hax I guess it would be incon
 
RoTt35 said:
FOX Jean starts with Deconstruction, plus TK and Mind Hax but they wouldn't work, so if Comic Jean starts with Mind Hax I guess it would be incon
Click to expand...
Why wouldn't TK work? FOX Jean's TK has a far higher LS.

But yes, it would be incon if Comic Jean started with mind hax (not sure what Comic Jean does first thing in character).

Honestly we should do Pre-retcon Phoenix Jean vs Post-retcon Phoenix Jean
 
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