More new Phoenix Avatar Feats

[Sera_EX]

Oh. Nah, I'm not down with that. The entire PF being High 1-B is a possibility in my book, but definitely not ordinary hosts. There would need to be some undeniable context behind that because otherwise there'd be a massive scaling problem as you've mentioned.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sera

Thank you. Sorry about losing my patience, but Seed has been doing these kind of things for years now, and never ever seems to stop. He has his headcanon of almost every single prominent Marvel character being High 1-B or 1-A, especially Franklin Richards, and sticks to it.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Also, wasn't it stated that Thor had knocked out The Phoenix briefly?

 

[Sera_EX]

It seems most Marvel debaters I come across have similar interpretations. No offense to Seed of course (that one is definitely a cut above the others).

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Ant It was more than just Captain Britain. It was several other amps ontop of it... And we shouldn't close the thread just because of small disagreements between interpretation of feats...

Anyways... We need someone else to analyze this , beside us, as it is pretty clear we'll be discussing this for a while as our viewpoints differ too greatly.

@Sera It does have avatars.

 

[Sera_EX]

Who/what amped Britain?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that he absorbed energies from a cross-universal nexus. The entire point of the Excalibur comicbook was that the team travelled to different universes via the lighthouse they lived in, which connected to them.

 

[Sera_EX]

Not seeing how that = High 1-B amp.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think there was some feat involving repairing the nexus or somesuch, but I don't remember so well.

 

[Sera_EX]

I see

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Bump. Now that I'm finally home... I'm going to gather the scans right now. Cause at this point... If every word that comes out of my mouth... You believe is exaggerated, then perhaps the scans will speak better than any words I can provide. Because I am not kidding, and I am not exaggerating. I am not going to be known as some BeyonderGodOmnipotent equivalent any longer (I'm not saying you guys did, but several people off site told me I resemble him a lot... which isn't neccessarily a good thing)

I've already have more than enough scans on both of my revised feat threads to make every claim (sans the 1-A one... Which I apologized before for doing so mentioning it again was the equivalent of strangling me) heavily support what I proposed.

And please do not ever say I don't know what I am doing. A lot of the stuff I stated well before anyone took it seriously (High 1-B Chaos Wave, LB Galactus being High 1-B, UN being High 1-B, and a lot of others) was approved for the upgrade, with the same pieces of evidence and scans I provided for the exact same reasons. The only thing difference is that Schroeder said the same thing in a slightly different way and organized it better.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay... Here we go:

Before anything, let's imply this is a very significant amp that they do not scale to... At all, and the Tower Feat that the Team does:

Not only states the amp Britain got under very specific circumstances, but states that the Tower connects to every plane of reality.


The next scan discusses that this wasn't just Britain and Meggan, it was the whole team of Excalibur fusing together


The Energy Matrix is causing all planes of reality to collapse, and can only be halted with Geometric Progressio, allowing them to adjust "Temporal Frequency" and Rise Through the Multiverse. It is likely that these are Higher-Dimensions due to how they are described. The mentioning of the 4-D definitely helps the planes=Higher-Dimensions aspect.


"All Alternate Earths Exist in the Same Plane" is proof that the Planes =/= Alternate Earths, and the Plane referred to is likely the Fourth Dimension


They repeat this feat at the very end of issue 50 of Excalibur... Albeit context implies they were running out of power.




Proof that Feron anchored the Phoenix to the Multiverse to accomplish the "Every Plane of Reality Feat", which would require power somewhat comparable to the Phoenix Avatar in question. Also Necrom could fight Feron evenly who was empowered by the very same Phoenix who performed the feat, proving Base Nerom scales over the feat in question.


Merlyn at the time had the Energy Matrix, which was the very energy of the Multiverse itself according to statements. Despite that, he stated that he was a powerful enough opponent to avoid confrontation despite the fact he had such power.


This is it for the Captain Britain / Excalibur Segment. Feel free to analyze it at your leisure.

 

[Sera_EX]

I heard BGO reports people directly to Fandom for using his name, so it's better to just...not mention him, although I fully understand what you mean and I definitely do not view you in the same realm as him or other FBO/Comicvine/Seth people that exaggerate feats to the highest possible end. You're very reasonable and a pleasure to talk to in all my experience talking to you both here, fcoc, Discord, etc.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I see... I'm happy to hear that. And consider myself warned. I'll do my best to hope that I don't tarnish that opinion in the near future.

On the topic of this thread:I can upload the other feats if you want in a similar manner ... Or should I wait for someone to analyze the above feats first ?

 

[Sera_EX]

I'll try to analyze it all before noon but I'm more than okay if someone else does. I'm all over the place since me and my kid literally did not sleep much if at all last night and I have to respond to people in vs threads that have their "vs debating" (aka let me act like a complete dick over this debate) personas on.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Okay. Take your time... Nothing is more important than real life... At all. While I have your attention Sera... I give best wishes to your child... Since I wasn't able to do so before since you were gone and were quite busy beforehand.Also good luck with the debate... I know from experience they can be... a tough bunch to deal with. We can wait for you if no one else wants to do it. In the meanwhile I'll just gather them so when requested I can post them.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I personally do not think that we should remotely consider it as an infinite-dimensional feat when this wasn't explicitly mentioned. Possibly a tier 2 outlier though.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Schroeder explicitly stated in the previous Phoenix threads the Tower feat the Phoenix performed was indeed High 1-B though... I can quote that portion. I did the above based solely on what Schroeder previously analyzed about this.

 

[JackJoyce]

A bit off topic but can we get a 3-B key for Dr Doom?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, going by the above scans, I see no evidence of an infinite-dimensional feat, just a 2-B or 2-A outlier, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

... Okay:

"Mentions the 4-D being on one Plane, not all the Planes being 4-D", "views going through the planes as a sort of ascension" , "Going through the Planes is referred to as a Geometrical Progression" , and "The planes are blatantly NOT universes" .

We need someone else to analyze these scans badly...There is no progress between us debating against one another.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. Well, it would likely be an unquantifiable outlier in any case.

 

[Antvasima]

There is no proof of the Phoenix being anywhere near that powerful. Please stop interfering. Thank you.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

.... And people thought I was bad

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Mind you that the Phoenix in many of marvel descriptions is accepted as really powerful and according to Excalibur interview there is only one Phoenix. Matt and others also agreed for High 1B Phoenix Force in other threads.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

The feat above "The tower one" was the very first reason High 1-B Phoenix Force was accepted by the others BTW.... Just in case you believe I'm the only one who thought so.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, that exact story explicitly displayed a tier 5-C Phoenix Force host, so it is completely unreliable.

 

[Antvasima]

See here: https://***************.to/Comic/Excalibur-1988/Issue-50?id=78293

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Again, that exact story explicitly displayed a tier 5-C Phoenix Force host, so it is completely unreliable.

We can say that for the whole Marvel scaling. I would like others opinions for that Ant.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, read the entire comicbook. It is blatantly obvious that the Excalibur characters are not supposed to have massive orders of infinite power in this story. Even the entire Phoenix Force was explicitly stated to not be infinite at all within the comicbook in question.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Well, read the entire comicbook. It is blatantly obvious that the Excalibur characters are not supposed to have massive orders of infinite power in this story. Even the entire Phoenix Force was explicitly stated to not be infinite at all within the comicbook in question.

I understand what you mean and however Marvel is like that in many stories. Also, I said read the creator's interview where he says there is one Phoenix in Marvel. The Phoenix is considered one of the primal forces of the universe and in Inferno, it communicate with the Living Tribunal and for the sake of the Multiverse it listened to the Tribunal and left without taking a host. Also Death doesn't have a hold on the souls the Phoenix collects to the White Hot Room. The White Hot Room is a Higher Dimension and i s called the Heart of the Phoenix. Many things indicate that the entire Phoenix Force is at tier of Multi Abstracts. They have been discussed in other threads too.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, those are solid arguments for the entire Phoenix Force to be a multiversal abstract. However, rating individual hosts, or Meggan and Captain Britain, as High 1-B, is ridiculous.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Yes, those are solid arguments for the entire Phoenix Force to be a multiversal abstract. However, rating individual hosts, or Meggan and Captain Britain, as High 1-B, is ridiculous.

Yes to that I agree. The only host (who is more than a simple host) that would be High 1B is the White Phoenix of the Crown and maybe (not so sure) the 2 White Phoenixes (Hope and Cyclops).

 

[Antvasima]

I sincerely doubt that any of them are High 1-B, or at least not Hope and Cyclops.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

I sincerely doubt that any of them are High 1-B, or at least not Hope and Cyclops.

The White Phoenix of the Crown is for sure though.

 

[Antvasima]

How so?

 

[PsychoWarper]

So is Wolverine getting a different key for him as a Phoenix Avatar?

(Just got here so I havnt had a chance to read through the whole thread)

 

[Antvasima]

No. It is an alternative future version of him that has only appeared in a few stories.

 

[PsychoWarper]

I mean we have pages for characters that have only appeared in a few stories.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but Marvel characters are much harder to scale and need consistency.

We also try to avoid alternative timeline versions, except for the ones that are extremely prominent long-time characters.