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Moon Movement 5-B to Naruto-Verse UPGRADE (Let's do this again but right :D)

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First of all, I have to inform that I made this thread a long time ago and I really apologize for making such a stupid thread

So let's start over

First, why was it accepted that Hagoromo sent the moon to its orbit before dying?

Well, the reason is because according to Obito, before dying he sealed the Gedo Mazo in the Moon and sent it to the Moon

And later in the War, Kurama tells Minato that Hagoromo managed to survive after the extraction because he had the Gedo Mazo in his body, which would confirm that Hamura did not go to the Moon when they sealed Kaguya

In addition, the other argument is that Hamura left his lineage in the Shinobi world before going to Moon and that Hagoromo had command of the Otsutsuki clan

However, I do not agree for the next reasons

I think this is easy to explain. As is known, Obito's entire source of information regarding the Sage of the Six Paths is what Madara told him, who obtained said information through the Uchiha tablet. Which said that Kaguya was a human and that she only had the Sage of the Six Paths as her only son, ignoring that she actually had a brother and that Kaguya was also part of the Juubi

This is a bit long (Sorry)
Note: The translations were carried out by the team of translators of the page


While Kurama's statement can serve as a statement regarding Hagoromo carrying the body of the Juubi inside him, the reality is that what Kurama says does not make sense with the work
First of all, to justify that Hagoromo sent the Moon when he was old was because it was mentioned that he was previously the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan and then gave it to his brother, however, this is wrong, because previously it was said that Hamura after the battle became the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan
兄ハゴロモと共に、十尾を封じた弟。戦いの後大筒木一族の当主となったハムラは、封印せし十尾の素体・外道魔像を見張るべく、"六道地爆天星"により生じた月へ一族と共に移り住む。

The younger brother who helped seal the Ten-Tails along with his older brother Hagoromo. After the battle Hamura became head of the Ōtsutsuki Clan and moved to the moon, which was created by the "Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei" in order to keep an eye on the Ten-Tails naked body, the Gedo Statue.
That Hagoromo gave it to him does not mean that there was a considerable time mark, but being the older brother for obvious reasons Hagoromo should inherit the clan, but having other objectives he gave it to his brother
家督の座を弟に譲り、ハゴロモはこの地に留まった。本来、あらゆる世界を繋ぐ力であるハズのチャクラ。その正しき使い道を、この地に生きる人々に伝えるためである。「忍宗」と称したその教義は、永劫の安寧と秩序を、もたらすはずであった...

Inheriting the headseat to his younger brother, Hagoromo remained on the earth. Originally, the power of chakra was to connect everyone in the world. Its purpose is to convey the people of the earth how to use it. The creed of "Ninshu" was supposed to bring peace and order for eternity...
Also in the Hagoromo section it says the following:

忍術の祖とされる「六道仙人」。
十尾を月に封じたハゴロモは、月に向かう弟や一族と別れ地上に残り、チャクラの「繋げる力」を忍宗として民に説く。
やがて己の死期を悟るや、力を九体の尾獣に変え野に放った。
世に安寧秩序が成されんことを願い、ハゴロモは千年もの時を漂う・・・。

The "Sage of Six Paths" was said to be the Founder of Ninjutsu.
Following the sealing of the Ten Tails within the Moon, Hagoromo departed from his brother and clan heading to the Moon and remained on Earth where he preached about the "power to connect" Chakra as Ninshuu.
Eventually, he realized his death was imminent and thus turned his own power into Nine Tailed Beasts where he released them into the wild.
Wishing for peace and order to be established, Hagaromo drifted through time for a thousand years...
This shows that Hamura went to the Moon right after the fight ended and not when Hagoromo was on the verge of death

Which makes sense of why in the databook of the movie The Last it says that Hagoromo stayed to teach Ninshu, which would not make sense if Hamura had gone to the Moon when Hagoromo was on the verge of death
月移住を決意した一族の中、兄ハゴロモだけは地上に残る。彼は本来「繋げる力」であるチャクラを、人々に正しく伝授しようと考えたのだ。ハゴロモより大筒木当主の座を譲られたハムラは、月へ旅立つ際にこう告げる。「千年待とう」ー兄との約定はその?く守られ続ける。

While the clan decided to emigrate to the moon, only his older brother Hagoromo decided to stay on earth. He wanted to properly teach the people about chakra, which was essentially "the power to connect". Hamura, who was given the seat of head of the Ōtsutsuki clan by Hagoromo, tells him as he departs to the moon. "Let us wait a thousand years" ー the agreement he made with his brother remains strong.
Because I reiterate, Hagoromo decided to stay to create Ninshu with Indra and Ashura

Also, it implies why Hamura appears young in the movie The Last when the events are told, being that Kishimoto was involved in the development of the movie so Hamura appearing young makes sense

Now I will answer some counterarguments that are used against this scene:

Well, this is an argument that I noticed, but the thing is that the movie has almost no errors, because Naruto as a child doing the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu is not a contradiction, because The jutsu that Naruto learns at age 12 is the Shadow Multi-Clone Jutsu, while the Shadow Clone Jutsu only summons a minimum of 2 as seen in these cases
In addition, it also seems that Naruto knows said jutsu by calling it the worst one he is given.

Naruto's arm appearing normal in this scene is not an animation error, because as seen in the manga Obito's skin despite being half made of Hashirama cells, returned to its normal tone, Being weakened, it turned white again, and according to the Restu no Sho, the reason Naruto uses bandages is as a symbol of his bond with Sasuke
現在、ナルトの右腕に固く巻かれた包帯。一見痛々しくさえ見えるが、これは友・うちはサスケとの、固き「繋がり」の証でもあるのだ...

Currently, bandages are tightly wrapped around Naruto's right arm. At first glance it might look painful to look at, but this is proof of his strong "connection" to his friend, Sasuke Uchiha.


So where is Kurama's statement?

The statement can be considered a simple retcon, since according to the guides Hagoromo divided the Bijuu's chakra when he perceived its death, living a little longer after that event
やがて己の死期を悟るや、力を九体の尾獣に変え野に放った。

Eventually, he realized his death was imminent and thus turned his own power into Nine Tailed Beasts where he released them into the wild.

生まれた九体の尾獣に名前を与えた六道仙人は、死を迎えるその時まで、様々なことを語り伝えたのだった。尾獣達にとって六道仙人は、自らを生んでくれたまさに父親的な存在。別れの際には、涙を滲ませ悲しんだ。

The Sage of Six Paths, who gave the names to the newborn nine Tailed Beasts, passed down various stories and tales to them until the time of his death. To the Tailed Beasts, the Sage of Six Paths was like a father figure to them, giving life and birth to their existence. When they parted, they were deeply saddened and flowed with tears.
In fact it would not be the first time, because in Minato One-shot it is seen that Tsunade is present in the Third Ninja War as a medical ninja, when the information suggests that she left after Dan's death, that is, in the Second World War she never returned to Konoha

So how could he be alive after separating the Bijuus? Was it because of the Gedo Mazo?

Well, the answer is no, because as has been said when a Bijuu is extracted from its Jinchuriki, the latter dies instantly. Something that would only make sense if we take into account normal Shinobi and not the special ones

Because as Obito says, Indra and Ashura inherited Hagoromo's eyes and body respectively, which is confirmed by the fact that he is the creator of the Uzumaki and Senju clans who possess a great life force, which allows them to stay alive after the separation of their Bijuus
In addition, Hagoromo himself credits that Ashura's advantage is his physical strength

Or that Madara after having separated with the Juubi was still alive despite not having the Gedo Mazo inside him

Obito after losing the Gedo Mazo and transferring the Bijuus chakra to Naruto, was more than tired and technically died later, but not instantly unlike the other Bijuus. Why?
Well, after reviving, it is implied that he will die again, which with this information indicates that the reason he was still alive is because of the sage power 6 paths that he still had in his body, he was going to die yes, but not instantly, but over time just like what happened with Hagoromo

So simply the Jinchuriki of the Juubi is special, despite having or not the body of the Gedo Mazo

While Hamura's lineage may mean that he actually stayed on Earth and later went to the Moon, this does not necessarily mean that he left when Hagoromo was dying, because as I said, Hagoromo stayed on Earth to create Ninshu and as Zetsu says he had Indra and Ashura at that time, so the Moon was already in its orbit, later Hamura's clan went to the Moon leaving Hagoromo on Earth, and the latter in his old age was on the verge of death and divided the Juubi's chakra

But this is an explanation that occurred to me, on Earth there was already an Ootsutsuki clan under the command of his mother Kaguya, and as we understand it, Hagoromo and Hamura are not the only descendants of Kaguya, because there is also the clan of the same name that according to the databook, it is suggested that they are descendants of her.
額の紋様と「骨」を武器に使う能力。かぐや一族とカグヤの関係とは...⁉

The ability to use the crest on your forehead and your "bones" as weapons. Is there is a relationship between the Kaguya Clan and Kaguya herself!?

各地に残る大筒木カグヤの片鱗
Glimpses of Kaguya Ōtsutsuki remaining in all parts of the world

Also, if we take into account the anime timeline, it can be seen that the time between the events we see, Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku to train the power of the sage, which seems to have happened in the canon because Hagoromo meets Gamamaru, and as evidenced, some time passed, in which the teenagers became adults, and Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku while Hamura continued to fulfill what his mother said, most likely in that time he had some descendants because as the guides suggest, after the battle Hamura went directly to the Moon and as observed the Ootsutsuki clan on the Moon seems to be mostly composed of humans

I don't know if this is a complete argument (you can ignore it), but I still want to mention it

Well, it turns out that Hagoromo and Naruto had the same illness, I won't go into too much detail, just that it happened because Naruto carries the chakra of all the Bijuu, as it is suggested that it also happened to Hagoromo, implying that it is the chakra of all the Bijuu that generates the illness, which would imply that Hagoromo had the Juubi's chakra inside him

With what you have read I have shown that in reality Hagoromo never had the body of the Juubi inside him, but that it was already on the Moon and right after Hamura left with his clan which already existed previously, so the rule that Hamura went to the Moon right after Hagoromo separated the Bijuus should be eliminated

And return to this old calculation, because as the guides and the movie indicate, the moon was already in its orbit before Hagoromo divided the Bijuu

Agree: karo_senpaii, Ghostimuscrime, MasqueTLDF, sageof8paths, Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe, Samlex1234, Catzlaflame, DarkDragonMedeus
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
Last edited:
This is fine for the most part although I'm unsure about writing off Kurama's statement as a retcon seeing as he witnessed the event first hand. It wasn't a second hand account like the stone tablets. For that reason, I'll remain neutral.
For your hamura lineage section, it is also worth mentioning that Kishimoto alluded to Kaguya-Kimimaro relationship as far back as the 2nd databook. Referring to his bone jutsu as something of "godly origins".
As mentioned above, this is really well made CRT regardless of if it passes or not
 
First of all, I have to inform that I made this thread a long time ago and I really apologize for making such a stupid thread

So let's start over

First, why was it accepted that Hagoromo sent the moon to its orbit before dying?

Well, the reason is because according to Obito, before dying he sealed the Gedo Mazo in the Moon and sent it to the Moon

And later in the War, Kurama tells Minato that Hagoromo managed to survive after the extraction because he had the Gedo Mazo in his body, which would confirm that Hamura did not go to the Moon when they sealed Kaguya

In addition, the other argument is that Hamura left his lineage in the Shinobi world before going to Moon and that Hagoromo had command of the Otsutsuki clan

However, I do not agree for the next reasons

I think this is easy to explain. As is known, Obito's entire source of information regarding the Sage of the Six Paths is what Madara told him, who obtained said information through the Uchiha tablet. Which said that Kaguya was a human and that she only had the Sage of the Six Paths as her only son, ignoring that she actually had a brother and that Kaguya was also part of the Juubi

This is a bit long (Sorry)
Note: The translations were carried out by the team of translators of the page


While Kurama's statement can serve as a statement regarding Hagoromo carrying the body of the Juubi inside him, the reality is that what Kurama says does not make sense with the work
First of all, to justify that Hagoromo sent the Moon when he was old was because it was mentioned that he was previously the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan and then gave it to his brother, however, this is wrong, because previously it was said that Hamura after the battle became the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan

That Hagoromo gave it to him does not mean that there was a considerable time mark, but being the older brother for obvious reasons Hagoromo should inherit the clan, but having other objectives he gave it to his brother

Also in the Hagoromo section it says the following:


This shows that Hamura went to the Moon right after the fight ended and not when Hagoromo was on the verge of death

Which makes sense of why in the databook of the movie The Last it says that Hagoromo stayed to teach Ninshu, which would not make sense if Hamura had gone to the Moon when Hagoromo was on the verge of death

Because I reiterate, Hagoromo decided to stay to create Ninshu with Indra and Ashura

Also, it implies why Hamura appears young in the movie The Last when the events are told, being that Kishimoto was involved in the development of the movie so Hamura appearing young makes sense

Now I will answer some counterarguments that are used against this scene:

Well, this is an argument that I noticed, but the thing is that the movie has almost no errors, because Naruto as a child doing the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu is not a contradiction, because The jutsu that Naruto learns at age 12 is the Shadow Multi-Clone Jutsu, while the Shadow Clone Jutsu only summons a minimum of 2 as seen in these cases
In addition, it also seems that Naruto knows said jutsu by calling it the worst one he is given.



So where is Kurama's statement?

The statement can be considered a simple retcon, since according to the guides Hagoromo divided the Bijuu's chakra when he perceived its death, living a little longer after that event



In fact it would not be the first time, because in Minato One-shot it is seen that Tsunade is present in the Third Ninja War as a medical ninja, when the information suggests that she left after Dan's death, that is, in the Second World War she never returned to Konoha

So how could he be alive after separating the Bijuus? Was it because of the Gedo Mazo?

Well, the answer is no, because as has been said when a Bijuu is extracted from its Jinchuriki, the latter dies instantly. Something that would only make sense if we take into account normal Shinobi and not the special ones

Because as Obito says, Indra and Ashura inherited Hagoromo's eyes and body respectively, which is confirmed by the fact that he is the creator of the Uzumaki and Senju clans who possess a great life force, which allows them to stay alive after the separation of their Bijuus
In addition, Hagoromo himself credits that Ashura's advantage is his physical strength

Or that Madara after having separated with the Juubi was still alive despite not having the Gedo Mazo inside him

Obito after losing the Gedo Mazo and transferring the Bijuus chakra to Naruto, was more than tired and technically died later, but not instantly unlike the other Bijuus. Why?
Well, after reviving, it is implied that he will die again, which with this information indicates that the reason he was still alive is because of the sage power 6 paths that he still had in his body, he was going to die yes, but not instantly, but over time just like what happened with Hagoromo

So simply the Jinchuriki of the Juubi is special, despite having or not the body of the Gedo Mazo

While Hamura's lineage may mean that he actually stayed on Earth and later went to the Moon, this does not necessarily mean that he left when Hagoromo was dying, because as I said, Hagoromo stayed on Earth to create Ninshu and as Zetsu says he had Indra and Ashura at that time, so the Moon was already in its orbit, later Hamura's clan went to the Moon leaving Hagoromo on Earth, and the latter in his old age was on the verge of death and divided the Juubi's chakra

But this is an explanation that occurred to me, on Earth there was already an Ootsutsuki clan under the command of his mother Kaguya, and as we understand it, Hagoromo and Hamura are not the only descendants of Kaguya, because there is also the clan of the same name that according to the databook, it is suggested that they are descendants of her.


Also, if we take into account the anime timeline, it can be seen that the time between the events we see, Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku to train the power of the sage, which seems to have happened in the canon because Hagoromo meets Gamamaru, and as evidenced, some time passed, in which the teenagers became adults, and Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku while Hamura continued to fulfill what his mother said, most likely in that time he had some descendants because as the guides suggest, after the battle Hamura went directly to the Moon and as observed the Ootsutsuki clan on the Moon seems to be mostly composed of humans

I don't know if this is a complete argument (you can ignore it), but I still want to mention it

Well, it turns out that Hagoromo and Naruto had the same illness, I won't go into too much detail, just that it happened because Naruto carries the chakra of all the Bijuu, as it is suggested that it also happened to Hagoromo, implying that it is the chakra of all the Bijuu that generates the illness, which would imply that Hagoromo had the Juubi's chakra inside him

With what you have read I have shown that in reality Hagoromo never had the body of the Juubi inside him, but that it was already on the Moon and right after Hamura left with his clan which already existed previously, so the rule that Hamura went to the Moon right after Hagoromo separated the Bijuus should be eliminated

And return to this old calculation, because as the guides and the movie indicate, the moon was already in its orbit before Hagoromo divided the Bijuu

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:
Asides from the kurama point ss testarossa said this actually looks pretty good. Leaning towards agree but I'd wait for counter points
 
Took a while to read but damn good work
I was confused why they wouldn't let the calc be used assuming Hags did it solo as one could argue the same timeframes would have been used either way as the anime scene is the only visual adaptation of it but after reading your points I am leaning towards sound agreement


to add to your argument (idk if this was rejected before or not but)
The Kaguya anime canon episodes could possibly considered canon to the manga due to Kishimoto providing answers to necessary questions before their production stage
xIDKbSW.png

 
Took a while to read but damn good work
I was confused why they wouldn't let the calc be used assuming Hags did it solo as one could argue the same timeframes would have been used either way as the anime scene is the only visual adaptation of it but after reading your points I am leaning towards sound agreement


to add to your argument (idk if this was rejected before or not but)
The Kaguya anime canon episodes could possibly considered canon to the manga due to Kishimoto providing answers to necessary questions before their production stage
xIDKbSW.png
Thanks for your input, but I'm curious. Could you please tell me or pass me the original and complete image?
Also, I will request that this image be translated by the website team.
 
It does not seem as though you knocked on his message wall which is needed for thread evaluations, tagging him here is useless as unless a moderator is doing it, he won't be summoned

I suggest trying to get other mods in case Slayer does not show up, as this is actually a very good CRT
Nuh uh!! Kuchiyose no jutsu @UchihaSlayer96
 
Why the heck is this thread so dry?
Idk, I sent it to the main discussion page, those with interest seem to have already commented prior, It’s very well worked and convincing, no one is really arguing in opposition I think we can just wait for the staff evaluation.

No point for waiting on Arc and Slayer if they lack interest to participate
 
Aww, man. I really had no interest in this (still don't tbh), cause I'm just kinda fed up with God tier shit for the foreseeable future.
I was hoping someone else would deal with this, but it seems like this won't move forward unless I look at it. So, uh, I'll look at it lol.
Can't promise it'll be right away, but I'll give this a fair shake as soon as I can.
 
Aww, man. I really had no interest in this (still don't tbh), cause I'm just kinda fed up with God tier shit for the foreseeable future.
I was hoping someone else would deal with this, but it seems like this won't move forward unless I look at it. So, uh, I'll look at it lol.
Can't promise it'll be right away, but I'll give this a fair shake as soon as I can.
Okay, I understand, it's normal when several people have already tried it, take your time.
 
Has the translation request that you made with the scan for canonising the Anime Canon Arc been met with responses?
 
Has the translation request that you made with the scan for canonising the Anime Canon Arc been met with responses?

Yes is this:
(伊達勇登 監督 Date Hayato - Kantoku)
=
Hayato Date, Supervisor

(第四次忍界大戦がアニメでスタートしたころは、まだ原作がどこまで くかも決まっていなかったんです。Daiyonji Ninkai Taisen ga anime de sutāto shita koro wa, mada gensaku ga dokomade tsuzuku kamo kimatte inakattan desu.)
=
When the Fourth Shinobi World War started in the anime, it hasn't been decided how far the original work would continue.


(以前からそうでしたが、アニメは原作をい超すわけにはいかないので、試行錯誤をしなからオリジナルのエピソードも かせていただきました。 Izen kara sode shitaga, anime wa gensaku o oi kosuwake ni hai kanai node, shikosakugo o shina kara orijinaru no episōdo mo kasete itadaki mashita..)
=
As has been the case for a while, the anime cannot supercede the original work, so original episodes have been created through trial and error.


(原作の3話分のストーリーを、アニメではだいたい1話で使いきってしまうので、どうしてもオリジナル話を増やさざるを なかったんですね。Gensaku no sanwabun no sutōrī o, anime de wa daitai ichiwa de tsukai kitte shimaunode, dōshite mo orijinaru-banashi o fuyasazaru o nakattan desune.)
=
The original three-chapter story was used in about one episode in the anime, so we had no choice but to do more original episodes.


(でも、原作者の岸本斉史先生にも質問をたくさんさせていただき、「NARUTOーナルトー」から く続けていくための方法やシナリオの書き方など。Demo, gensaku-sha no Kishimoto Masashi-sensei ni mo)
=
But I also asked many questions to the original author, Masashi Kishimoto, like how to continue [NARUTO] in the long-term, how to write scenarios, etc.


(もちるん、まだまだ作業は終わっていませんが、ここからはスタッフ的な意味でも"総力戦"になり、これまで「NARUTOーナルトー」に わってくれていた演出  が続々と再登場してくれるので、演出面でもせひ期待してください。Mochiru n, madamada sagyō wa owatte imasenga, koko kara wa sutaffu-tekina imi demo" sōryoku-sen" ni nari, kore made [NARUTO] ni watte kurete ita enshutsu kajin ga zoku zoku to saitōjō shìte kureru node, enshutsu-men demo zehi kitai shìte kudasai.)
=
The work is not yet finished, but from this point on, it will be an “all-out war” in the sense of the staff, and the directors who have worked on "NARUTO" in the past will reappear once more, so please look forward to their productions as well.
 
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