- 96
- 49
First of all, I have to inform that I made this thread a long time ago and I really apologize for making such a stupid thread
So let's start over
First, why was it accepted that Hagoromo sent the moon to its orbit before dying?
Well, the reason is because according to Obito, before dying he sealed the Gedo Mazo in the Moon and sent it to the Moon
And later in the War, Kurama tells Minato that Hagoromo managed to survive after the extraction because he had the Gedo Mazo in his body, which would confirm that Hamura did not go to the Moon when they sealed Kaguya
In addition, the other argument is that Hamura left his lineage in the Shinobi world before going to Moon and that Hagoromo had command of the Otsutsuki clan
However, I do not agree for the next reasons
With what you have read I have shown that in reality Hagoromo never had the body of the Juubi inside him, but that it was already on the Moon and right after Hamura left with his clan which already existed previously, so the rule that Hamura went to the Moon right after Hagoromo separated the Bijuus should be eliminated
And return to this old calculation, because as the guides and the movie indicate, the moon was already in its orbit before Hagoromo divided the Bijuu
Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:
So let's start over
First, why was it accepted that Hagoromo sent the moon to its orbit before dying?
Well, the reason is because according to Obito, before dying he sealed the Gedo Mazo in the Moon and sent it to the Moon
And later in the War, Kurama tells Minato that Hagoromo managed to survive after the extraction because he had the Gedo Mazo in his body, which would confirm that Hamura did not go to the Moon when they sealed Kaguya
In addition, the other argument is that Hamura left his lineage in the Shinobi world before going to Moon and that Hagoromo had command of the Otsutsuki clan
However, I do not agree for the next reasons
I think this is easy to explain. As is known, Obito's entire source of information regarding the Sage of the Six Paths is what Madara told him, who obtained said information through the Uchiha tablet. Which said that Kaguya was a human and that she only had the Sage of the Six Paths as her only son, ignoring that she actually had a brother and that Kaguya was also part of the Juubi
This is a bit long (Sorry)
Note: The translations were carried out by the team of translators of the page
While Kurama's statement can serve as a statement regarding Hagoromo carrying the body of the Juubi inside him, the reality is that what Kurama says does not make sense with the work
First of all, to justify that Hagoromo sent the Moon when he was old was because it was mentioned that he was previously the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan and then gave it to his brother, however, this is wrong, because previously it was said that Hamura after the battle became the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan
Which makes sense of why in the databook of the movie The Last it says that Hagoromo stayed to teach Ninshu, which would not make sense if Hamura had gone to the Moon when Hagoromo was on the verge of death
Also, it implies why Hamura appears young in the movie The Last when the events are told, being that Kishimoto was involved in the development of the movie so Hamura appearing young makes sense
Now I will answer some counterarguments that are used against this scene:
Note: The translations were carried out by the team of translators of the page
While Kurama's statement can serve as a statement regarding Hagoromo carrying the body of the Juubi inside him, the reality is that what Kurama says does not make sense with the work
First of all, to justify that Hagoromo sent the Moon when he was old was because it was mentioned that he was previously the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan and then gave it to his brother, however, this is wrong, because previously it was said that Hamura after the battle became the leader of the Ootsutsuki clan
That Hagoromo gave it to him does not mean that there was a considerable time mark, but being the older brother for obvious reasons Hagoromo should inherit the clan, but having other objectives he gave it to his brother
Also in the Hagoromo section it says the following:
This shows that Hamura went to the Moon right after the fight ended and not when Hagoromo was on the verge of death
Which makes sense of why in the databook of the movie The Last it says that Hagoromo stayed to teach Ninshu, which would not make sense if Hamura had gone to the Moon when Hagoromo was on the verge of death
Because I reiterate, Hagoromo decided to stay to create Ninshu with Indra and Ashura
Also, it implies why Hamura appears young in the movie The Last when the events are told, being that Kishimoto was involved in the development of the movie so Hamura appearing young makes sense
Now I will answer some counterarguments that are used against this scene:
Well, this is an argument that I noticed, but the thing is that the movie has almost no errors, because Naruto as a child doing the Kage Bunshin no Jutsu is not a contradiction, because The jutsu that Naruto learns at age 12 is the Shadow Multi-Clone Jutsu, while the Shadow Clone Jutsu only summons a minimum of 2 as seen in these cases
In addition, it also seems that Naruto knows said jutsu by calling it the worst one he is given.
In addition, it also seems that Naruto knows said jutsu by calling it the worst one he is given.
Naruto's arm appearing normal in this scene is not an animation error, because as seen in the manga Obito's skin despite being half made of Hashirama cells, returned to its normal tone, Being weakened, it turned white again, and according to the Restu no Sho, the reason Naruto uses bandages is as a symbol of his bond with Sasuke
Now, Sasuke appearing with the rinegan deactivated is not a mistake either, because remember that Kishimoto was in charge of the character design, so this decision had been made previously, even in the settei of the movie shows Sasuke with the rinnegan deactivated. Also in Restu no Sho, Sasuke's designs do not show the rinnegan when his right eye is deactivated. It's just that this decision was later changed, possibly for aesthetic reasons, evidenced by the additional "The Rest" art by Kishimoto added to the guide after the film's release in Japan.
So where is Kurama's statement?
The statement can be considered a simple retcon, since according to the guides Hagoromo divided the Bijuu's chakra when he perceived its death, living a little longer after that event
So how could he be alive after separating the Bijuus? Was it because of the Gedo Mazo?
Well, the answer is no, because as has been said when a Bijuu is extracted from its Jinchuriki, the latter dies instantly. Something that would only make sense if we take into account normal Shinobi and not the special ones
Because as Obito says, Indra and Ashura inherited Hagoromo's eyes and body respectively, which is confirmed by the fact that he is the creator of the Uzumaki and Senju clans who possess a great life force, which allows them to stay alive after the separation of their Bijuus
In addition, Hagoromo himself credits that Ashura's advantage is his physical strength
Or that Madara after having separated with the Juubi was still alive despite not having the Gedo Mazo inside him
Obito after losing the Gedo Mazo and transferring the Bijuus chakra to Naruto, was more than tired and technically died later, but not instantly unlike the other Bijuus. Why?
Well, after reviving, it is implied that he will die again, which with this information indicates that the reason he was still alive is because of the sage power 6 paths that he still had in his body, he was going to die yes, but not instantly, but over time just like what happened with Hagoromo
So simply the Jinchuriki of the Juubi is special, despite having or not the body of the Gedo Mazo
The statement can be considered a simple retcon, since according to the guides Hagoromo divided the Bijuu's chakra when he perceived its death, living a little longer after that event
In fact it would not be the first time, because in Minato One-shot it is seen that Tsunade is present in the Third Ninja War as a medical ninja, when the information suggests that she left after Dan's death, that is, in the Second World War she never returned to Konoha
So how could he be alive after separating the Bijuus? Was it because of the Gedo Mazo?
Well, the answer is no, because as has been said when a Bijuu is extracted from its Jinchuriki, the latter dies instantly. Something that would only make sense if we take into account normal Shinobi and not the special ones
Because as Obito says, Indra and Ashura inherited Hagoromo's eyes and body respectively, which is confirmed by the fact that he is the creator of the Uzumaki and Senju clans who possess a great life force, which allows them to stay alive after the separation of their Bijuus
In addition, Hagoromo himself credits that Ashura's advantage is his physical strength
Or that Madara after having separated with the Juubi was still alive despite not having the Gedo Mazo inside him
Obito after losing the Gedo Mazo and transferring the Bijuus chakra to Naruto, was more than tired and technically died later, but not instantly unlike the other Bijuus. Why?
Well, after reviving, it is implied that he will die again, which with this information indicates that the reason he was still alive is because of the sage power 6 paths that he still had in his body, he was going to die yes, but not instantly, but over time just like what happened with Hagoromo
So simply the Jinchuriki of the Juubi is special, despite having or not the body of the Gedo Mazo
While Hamura's lineage may mean that he actually stayed on Earth and later went to the Moon, this does not necessarily mean that he left when Hagoromo was dying, because as I said, Hagoromo stayed on Earth to create Ninshu and as Zetsu says he had Indra and Ashura at that time, so the Moon was already in its orbit, later Hamura's clan went to the Moon leaving Hagoromo on Earth, and the latter in his old age was on the verge of death and divided the Juubi's chakra
But this is an explanation that occurred to me, on Earth there was already an Ootsutsuki clan under the command of his mother Kaguya, and as we understand it, Hagoromo and Hamura are not the only descendants of Kaguya, because there is also the clan of the same name that according to the databook, it is suggested that they are descendants of her.
Also, if we take into account the anime timeline, it can be seen that the time between the events we see, Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku to train the power of the sage, which seems to have happened in the canon because Hagoromo meets Gamamaru, and as evidenced, some time passed, in which the teenagers became adults, and Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku while Hamura continued to fulfill what his mother said, most likely in that time he had some descendants because as the guides suggest, after the battle Hamura went directly to the Moon and as observed the Ootsutsuki clan on the Moon seems to be mostly composed of humans
But this is an explanation that occurred to me, on Earth there was already an Ootsutsuki clan under the command of his mother Kaguya, and as we understand it, Hagoromo and Hamura are not the only descendants of Kaguya, because there is also the clan of the same name that according to the databook, it is suggested that they are descendants of her.
Also, if we take into account the anime timeline, it can be seen that the time between the events we see, Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku to train the power of the sage, which seems to have happened in the canon because Hagoromo meets Gamamaru, and as evidenced, some time passed, in which the teenagers became adults, and Hagoromo stayed on Mount Myoboku while Hamura continued to fulfill what his mother said, most likely in that time he had some descendants because as the guides suggest, after the battle Hamura went directly to the Moon and as observed the Ootsutsuki clan on the Moon seems to be mostly composed of humans
I don't know if this is a complete argument (you can ignore it), but I still want to mention it
Well, it turns out that Hagoromo and Naruto had the same illness, I won't go into too much detail, just that it happened because Naruto carries the chakra of all the Bijuu, as it is suggested that it also happened to Hagoromo, implying that it is the chakra of all the Bijuu that generates the illness, which would imply that Hagoromo had the Juubi's chakra inside him
Well, it turns out that Hagoromo and Naruto had the same illness, I won't go into too much detail, just that it happened because Naruto carries the chakra of all the Bijuu, as it is suggested that it also happened to Hagoromo, implying that it is the chakra of all the Bijuu that generates the illness, which would imply that Hagoromo had the Juubi's chakra inside him
With what you have read I have shown that in reality Hagoromo never had the body of the Juubi inside him, but that it was already on the Moon and right after Hamura left with his clan which already existed previously, so the rule that Hamura went to the Moon right after Hagoromo separated the Bijuus should be eliminated
And return to this old calculation, because as the guides and the movie indicate, the moon was already in its orbit before Hagoromo divided the Bijuu
Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:
Last edited:
