Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

[Sigilavox]

While rewatching MHW's cutscenes, I came to a point of interest: Wouldn't Zorah's AP be better calculated as the energy required to incinerate the surface area of the New World, rather than as a singular spherical explosion with radius equal to the New World?

The First Wyverian's dialogue on the subject:

"The Everstream connects every corner of this land like the veins of a beating heart. Should the dragon succumb to death there, its glut of energy will hurtle through those veins, setting them afire and searing the land to ash and scorched earth."

Energy passing through 'those veins' doesn't sound like a single explosion to me, and instead seems to imply the veins will be the vector through which heat will travel and destroy stuff in proximity (which is 'every corner' of the New World). Even in the council's dialogue, they mention that the Everstream veins touch every part of the New World. If Zorah's death would have just created an explosion as long as it died in an energetic/volcanic region, mentioning the Everstream veins connecting the whole land mass wouldn't have been necessary, since the energy wouldn't need to use the veins to travel across and destroy the New World.

One could also argue that Zorah agitates the existing energy, and therefore that the feat doesn't really count for its own AP but the Everstream's, but I'm not sure about that.

Thoughts?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Eh. I'd be fine with getting a recalc done instead treating it as incineration, though, for AP... hm. An explosion is really just fire with force behind it. I suppose it is vague but it seems any small timeframe for this "agitation" would still be more or less an explosion. I'll say I'm neutral on that.

The other thing is that I think that it would, to some extent, be a feat for specifically Zorah as opposed to the Everstream. Other fiery creatures of lesser power than Zorah certainly don't pose such a titanic threat should they interact with the Everstream, and we already have a 6-C fire Elder Dragon who would fit the bill present in the New World.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

We have been gifted my Hunter in arms. Today we have gotten the return of our local pandemic dragon, a dragon that bridges the gap between games and fan favourites. Today is a good day.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

We have been gifted my Hunter in arms. Today we have gotten the return of our local pandemic dragon, a dragon that bridges the gap between games and fan favourites. Today is a good day.

Yeah that's cool but we still don't have any of Rise's Monsters profiles nor updating the Hunter profile

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Yeah that's cool but we still don't have any of Rise's Monsters profiles nor updating the Hunter profile

Then go make some :U

Xenoblade and its massive stuff (+ procrastination) has been my priority rn. I also did have stuff made like the Stories 1 rider but the code for it unfortunately got deleted before I could make the page

 

[deonment]

I also did have stuff made like the Stories 1 rider but the code for it unfortunately got deleted before I could make the page

that is in fact a yikes/yikes from me chief

 

[Sigilavox]

So, now that the Sunbreak demo has come out, any thoughts on Malzeno? It demonstrates impressive speed with this move, nearly appearing to teleport and effectively doing so for the purpose of the hunters facing it, and unlike many other MH speed feats this is demonstrated in gameplay. But would this have any bearing on its hypothetical elder dragon profile? Probably not?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Speed wise, probably not. We already have monsters such as Kirin at higher speeds so it probably wouldn't add much.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Don't forget Valstrax

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Are we ever gonna add Safi'jiiva to Xeno'jiiva's Profile?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Are we ever gonna add Safi'jiiva to Xeno'jiiva's Profile?

Whenever we get active supporters that want/can edit and make profiles plus have the time necessary to find and add feats, lore, citations, to the P&A as well as stats section.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Statistics wise, Safi would be High 6-A Possibly 5-A from the fact that the Field Team Leader did not know who would have won if Safi and Alatreon fought.

 

[Sigilavox]

In Safi's section of the Iceborne setting materials book that came out last month, a developer's note stated that Safi was designed specifically to be the equal and counterpart to Fatalis, and also that Alatreon was threatened by Safi'jiiva (with their conflict theorized in-universe to be "potentially on the scale of a star" with specific kanji denoting this; 星の規模). From Safi's section in this album of compiled Monster ecology pages:

という驚きを与えつつも、ミラポレアスの双璧となるザ・ドラゴンにしたかったんです。

This quote, taken from the Production Note section, translates roughly to:

"We wanted to create a dragon that would be the twin of [Fatalis]."

In context, this is in the sense of being a peer/rival/equal.

Translation folks over at reddit have supported this idea.

I think this confirms that Safi'jiiva is indeed 5-A as Fatalis is?

And the aforementioned Alatreon-Safi conflict could potentially elevate the whole shebang to star level but it's not really a feat or anything so ehh.

 

[Sigilavox]

The "star level" quote comes from a fleet researcher's dialogue on Alatreon's ecology page and is thus:

古廊ほどの存在になれば大陸規模、いや、星の規模で健張り争いをしているのかもしれない.

Roughly,

[Safi'jiiva and Alatreon] may be fighting for power on a continental scale, no, perhaps even on the scale of a star.

星の is the kanji for something relating to a star or with stellar properties, whereas it would have been 惑星の if it were merely planetary in scale, since 惑星 denotes a planet or something relating to planets whereas 星 very clearly refers to a star.

規模 is the kanji denoting scale or size.

It kind of strikes me as oddly out-of-place for an in-universe note, though, since I'm pretty sure researchers of the Monster Hunter world would have little to no conception of, like, the actual scale of space or stars or anything like that, given the level of technology they have.

Since people haven't jumped on it, this could also be a misunderstanding on my part, which I recognize is by far most likely. Still, 5-A Safi?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Given we have Alatreon at 5-A, yeah, I don't see why not.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Damn, there's a Star Level Quote for Alatreon and Safi? That's awesome!

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Well on other news, been breaking myself back into MH since Sunbreak is soon. Decided to take on Iceborne's Black Dragons in order to get myself back into the swing of things. I challenged myself to get a Alatreon set (which I did after beating him 4 times) and a Fatalis set (still a wip but I only need 1 more Evil Eye).

 

[Sigilavox]

False alarm on the "Star level" thing! "星" can also be used to refer to celestial bodies in general, and it would make more sense if the quote were about their conflict threatening the whole world rather than jumping straight over to a star.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Ah, that's a shame. It does provide supporting evidence for 5-A though so that's something at least.
Oh yeah, something I wanna ask. Do ya'll know what it would be to destroy the light around you? I ask due to Stories 2 Fatalis doing this with his beams which create darkness around said beam.

 

[deonment]

uh, darkness manip

 

[Sigilavox]

Most likely, yeah. Should that go into Namielle's theoretical abilities as well, despite it being... well, not used outside of one unusual cutscene?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Bump.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

So this is fun, Sunbreak is close and we got the Magalas back. Yeah all these guys were leaked prior but its still nice to see 'em.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I just had a thought. When Safi gets added to the Profile eventually, are we gonna give him a "Higher with the (Insert One-Shot Attack Name Here Because I Forgot What it's Called)" because it's acknowledged in the story as being way stronger than everything else it threw at you?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

You could actually make Safi into a new profile considering its basically a new entity. It would make indexing it easier thats for sure.

 

[Sigilavox]

At the risk of opening a very ugly can of worms, I'm wondering whether Kushala Daora's storm dispersion feat should be used for Environmental Destruction rather than AP.

It's never actually shown to use its raw physical prowess to do that like, say, All-Might's or Saitama's punches, and additionally the event itself doesn't do anything to the hunter at all (yet the small white tornado it creates while descending afterward does cause the hunter to flinch, which seems like a pretty clear dividing line between "combat applicable" and "non-applicable" abilities esp since it does use it again later in the fight).

In any case, the darker storm that comes in afterward even happens without it flapping its wings, meaning that its physical motions do not 100% correlate with its air manipulation, at least for creating an actual storm. So, should this specific feat be used for Environmental Destruction instead?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean. That is its physical might, though. I don't even really understand what you mean by that, do you mean as like part of an attack it never disperses a massive storm? Because there isn't really an argument to say that physically dispersing a storm wouldn't scale to your physicals, regardless of whether it was used in an attack.

A storm coming afterwards is also irrelevant, I feel, but perhaps I misunderstanding this bit, too?

 

[Sigilavox]

I mean in the sense that King Ghidorah's profile has separate listings for its Attack Potency and Environmental Destruction (that until GvK resulted in two tiers) due to weather manipulation, where both are created by its own power, they are considered separately despite the energy theoretically being applicable to its other attacks by this logic.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Unrelated (even if I agree with Bambu) but from what I've played of Sunbreak, Malzeno seems to be a more haxxed version of Gore Magala.

 

[Sigilavox]

Yeah, fair enough. How're people enjoying Sunbreak? I've loaned my switch away for the time being, which as all my HR 100+ progress, so I'm just playing through base Rise again on PC so far using a barest-of-bones account. ;_;

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Sunbreak is fun, GS has basically been reinvented and its apparently better than even LS now given you can do 10k damage in a few second.
During my grind I started reading the armour descriptions and bejesus these things hax out the hunter immensely. Like for example Chameleos' one mentions how its true that those who touch it's armour are turned into shadows and warns about touching it.
That and other stuff in relation to mechanics such as pulling an uno reverse on the frenzy and bloodblight really could buff the Hunter.

 

[Sigilavox]

Alright, blasted through Sunbreak and man is it fun. Morbin' dragon is a really fun fight, and its armor is pretty sweet with the whole health regen augment-esque part. Not seeing myself take that skill off for the time being, it's just too comfy. Lots of good fights, though somehow I find myself let down by Seregios, I think I liked his 4U fight more.

Gotta say,

Spoiler: M6* Quest Monster

Gaismagorm is a total beast. Taking a huge spinning dragonator right in the back that explodes inside of it just like the Dragonrazer, except, like... ten times as massive? At least? And then falling hundreds of meters only to immediately keep fighting? I feel like it's pretty safe to say this thing is far, far more durable than Velkhana considering the Dragonrazer sent it fleeing. And crumbling a castle just by coming up to the surface in its "weakest" form is just the lowest end of what appears to be its raw muscular strength pre-Qurio empowerment.

I don't suppose tanking a larger Dragonrazer would upscale its durability up due to them being essentially the same weapon? i.e. if the Dragonrazer is capable of severely injuring a 5.5 gigaton creature, and this is some determinable degree greater in volume (and hence mass), would it upscale appropriately? That's probably a real reach, though. Not expecting anything to come from that.

 

[Sigilavox]

Spoiler: M6* Quest

So in this cutscene, Gaismagorm throws a boulder significantly larger than its hand hundreds of meters semi-casually. Given that the dimensions of its hand are approximately seven by four meters given here and the boulder is at the very least two meters high (likely more), this boulder almost certainly exceeds 10^5 kilograms (Class 100) and sits fairly comfortably into Class K in terms of lifting strength.

 

[Sigilavox]

Drafted a profile. M*6 sunbreak spoilers abound. Let me know if it makes sense, or if anything needs changing.

Edit: I drafted profiles for Malzeno and for Wind Serpent Ibushi.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

There is some stuff you are missing. For example both Malzeno and the big boi should have Disease Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation as attacks from Malzeno (as shown with Fiorayne) infect people with a virus that could kill them if not treated as the explanation given is that its a very hidden disease that runs through Malzeno's blood (which the Qurio suck on which is why monsters go rampant).

Also, Malzeno should have Power Null (of Elements and statuses), Mind Manip and Madness Manip due to have access to the Dragon Element. Longevity as Elder Dragons can live for over a millennia according to World's Elder Dragon gem which states that it forms inside an Elder Dragon after that much time. Energy projection for the beams it fires. Transformation for it's 2nd form and empowerment since it's buffs are condition based. Most of this also goes for big boi.

Also, the bloodblight effect seems to be something exclusive to the Hunter, akin to Frenzy (which funny nuff makes this consistent) as monsters infected by either BB or Frenzy typically become hyper aggressive, then die while only the Hunter is able to fight off both viruses by attacking (which is evidence for Reactive Evolution for the Hunter but I'll handle the Hunter).

Some more things, big boi could get regen for showing no visible damage after getting impaled by 2 exploding dragonators akin to what Velkana would get if they had a profile. Espinas' profile should link the turf war between it and Kushala as evidence for it's 6-C rating and Malzeno's profile has a typo on it where the f on the lifting strength's far higher isn't bolded.

I'll take a read of some monster part descriptions to see if it gives any more insight or abilities.

 

[Sigilavox]

There is some stuff you are missing. For example both Malzeno and the big boi should have Disease Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation as attacks from Malzeno (as shown with Fiorayne) infect people with a virus that could kill them if not treated as the explanation given is that its a very hidden disease that runs through Malzeno's blood (which the Qurio suck on which is why monsters go rampant).

Sweet. I've added the proposed changes to Malzeno's profile and changed Statistics Amplification to Empowerment because it can't just arbitrarily enter the Bloodening, but needs enough life energy; is this a proper case of the difference between the two?

About Empathic Manipulation, I'm not sure that it's the same disease that Fiorayne got which causes monsters to become hyper-aggressive but the Qurio themselves, especially since Afflicted monsters still exist after Malzeno is killed. I'd say Qurio would grant Empathic Manipulation to the big boi but I'm not so sure about Fiorayne's disease, since it was transmitted directly from Malzeno's tail and not necessarily from Qurio. Is there a quote for this?

Edit: Big boi's profile updated.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Sweet. I've added the proposed changes to Malzeno's profile and changed Statistics Amplification to Empowerment because it can't just arbitrarily enter the Bloodening, but needs enough life energy; is this a proper case of the difference between the two?

About Empathic Manipulation, I'm not sure that it's the same disease that Fiorayne got which causes monsters to become hyper-aggressive but the Qurio themselves, especially since Afflicted monsters still exist after Malzeno is killed. I'd say Qurio would grant Empathic Manipulation to the big boi but I'm not so sure about Fiorayne's disease, since it was transmitted directly from Malzeno's tail and not necessarily from Qurio. Is there a quote for this?

Edit: Big boi's profile updated.

Basically stat amps normally are something you can just do, like imagine the hunter's ability to just a might seed to buff their attack while empowerment requires a condition to be met, it'd be like the skill Heroics where its only active at low hp.

Its tough to find the quote since Sunbreak just came out and no one has it up yet but basically the disease from Malzeno is why monsters go berserk as they suck blood from Malzeno and then go off and infect other monsters, these monsters die from the virus which Malzeno can then feed on. Its very similar to the Frenzy virus which is actually brought up in game when the antibodied are being made. So the reason why Afflicted monsters still exist is because the Qurio that are still alive still have the virus in them due to the prior relationship with Malzeno.

edit: also be sure to mention the type of Madness Manipulation, in this this its type 2 and if you want to cite it you can use Crimson Glow Valtrax's description which states that it went mad from it's own rampant energy which would be dragon.

 

[Sigilavox]

Its tough to find the quote since Sunbreak just came out and no one has it up yet but basically the disease from Malzeno is why monsters go berserk as they suck blood from Malzeno and then go off and infect other monsters, these monsters die from the virus which Malzeno can then feed on. Its very similar to the Frenzy virus which is actually brought up in game when the antibodied are being made. So the reason why Afflicted monsters still exist is because the Qurio that are still alive still have the virus in them due to the prior relationship with Malzeno.

Right, I found the quote here in dialogue just after Fiorayne falls unconscious. Bahari discusses how Qurio venom/poison was found in her wound because Malzeno's body is "coursin' with Qurio juice," but it doesn't turn Malzeno crazy (like it does other monsters), just makes it stronger. Add that to them specifically stating that her incubation period was more or less the same as the monsters that enter a hyper-aggressive state after being bitten. They also say that fifty years prior, a plague hit the kingdom shortly after Malzeno decimated it, lining up with what happened to Fiorayne.

So basically it's the Qurio's poison/virus (they use the words interchangeably) that causes both hyper-aggression in monsters and dizziness/fatigue/unconsciousness in humans, older Qurio bring higher potency, and due to contact and coincidental symbiosis Malzeno now has a ton of it in its system. It's immune to the negative effects, and instrumentalizes it in combat to empower itself and infect its prey.