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Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

I've heard that Ruiner Nergigante would be an ED created by nature to balance the Ecosystem when unbalanced, so it would make sense, considering that he would need to fight with potential dangers to the entire ecosystem of a place.
Not that I oppose the general consensus, but I do think that statement realistically refers to the species' evolved ecological niche as seeking out and predating on bioenergy-dense monsters, not nature intentionally creating it or motivation on the monster's part.
 
Not that I oppose the general consensus, but I do think that statement realistically refers to the species' evolved ecological niche as seeking out and predating on bioenergy-dense monsters, not nature intentionally creating it or motivation on the monster's part.
Well, if we take into account that after Shara's defeat, the Ruiner Nergigante, even weakened from the recent fight, kills the undefeated monster and leaves, maybe it can be evidence for its reactive evolution.

Also don't take a creation from nature literally, I think Monster Hunter even more the World that is more realistic, would take it seriously. But we can say that the Ruiner has a great participation and importance within the ecosystem of the Monster Hunter world.
 
Oh yeah. Honestly, the biggest intimidation factor for me in trying to revamp the whole series of profiles is that, like... there's already a shit ton of raggedy profiles for everyone (Zinogre excluded lol) and the idea of changing all of them is just such a hassle. It would be much easier to go piece by piece, but I feel like if we change some shared quality of a profile (like standardizing stamina or Sound Manipulation roar text), it should be done to everyone else, too, and then I see the list of 200+ profiles and then go, "huh, maybe this can just wait another day..."

I mean, probably not enough to justify deleting a bunch (despite, like, Explore, Online, and to a lesser extent Frontier mons being really hard to research), but still. I'd be fine temporarily deleting the low-priority profiles so we can focus on developing important monster profiles one by one and set new shared precedent for wording and format, like that for the mainline apexes, flagships, common elder dragons, and such, before revisiting them with a strong and clear set of standards.
Just do what you enjoy and that'll be enough, both Monster Hunter and Vs debating are both hobbies that can be fun but can easily burn you out if you put too much time and energy into them (speaking from past experiences).
 
Thanks folks! Btw, Title Update spoilers:
Silver Rathalos gets the upper hand on a Bazelgeuse and Gold Rathian fights a Kushala Daora
.A stream where you can watch these is here.
 
Thanks folks! Btw, Title Update spoilers:
Silver Rathalos gets the upper hand on a Bazelgeuse and Gold Rathian fights a Kushala Daora
.A stream where you can watch these is here.
I'm going to fight them now using my faithful hammer to bonk them into submission. The new endgame loop is fascinating at the very least.
 
(If the answer is "yes" or maybe just, later when asked, I could probably make a full list of the profiles I'm thinking of when I'm saying this stuff)
Figure I may as well do this

there's Jhen Moran and Lao Shan Lung as I mentioned earlier, but, going through the entire verse semi randomly

Farunokku doesn't really have even basic explanations of what their powers are based on

Same deal for Bogabadorumu

same deal for Hyujikiki

Man's literally named Unknown, doesn't justify abilities and the thing it scales to is a bit strange too (Scaling to the hunter because they're a "G-Rank unknown", whatever that means)

Eo Garudia as mentioned earlier

Gasurabazura doesn't have any ability justifications

Morudomunto's summary is just stating he's from a game, no ability justification

Nefu Garumudo is the same deal

Gigginox has no ability justifications

And granted there are other profiles that I initially looked at and figured were barebones but in retrospect they do at least describe a few things there, and I wanted to stick to stuff that was both unlikely to receive an easy fix and just aren't very good

Though on the former point it does make me consider CRTing at least the monsters that show up in 4 Ultimate or World, probably after I actually start and finish my mass "okay some of these abilities aren't very good" CRT (I noticed while I was going through stuff that we actually have a greatest jagras key and I adore that but also think it should just be High 6-C because it can outright make the Deviljho flee in a fight)
 
Thanks folks! Btw, Title Update spoilers:
Silver Rathalos gets the upper hand on a Bazelgeuse and Gold Rathian fights a Kushala Daora
.A stream where you can watch these is here.
I knew those ******* were gonna be Elder Dragon Tier. This helps Molten Tigrex as well since it's portrayed as on par with those two since it's fought in the same rank and in the same location.
 
lmao

Oltura is competing with Garou without any of us on that thread to actually give insight on Oltura's stuff. Weird stuff is being claimed here, like being able to resist deconstruction via AP. Funny stuff though since I have even more stuff to add to Oltura's profile and its being this much of a menace.
Damn Oltura is really that ridiculous huh? Might going to try him against some of Blazblue chars
 
Also I feel like Unknown, if kept around, should maybe have like three Keys. There is the basic version known to show up in Low/High Rank, then a stronger version called Supremacy Unknown which has newly acquired wind manipulation, and then also an even more powerful Solstice War Unknown (Only one other monster has a Solstice War variant, and that's Disufiroa) and this Unknown is found at the very top of the Tower, where Elder Dragons like Gold Rathain, Silver Rathalos and even White Fatalis are appear

I'd be willing to maybe change a few things for Morudomunto since I know a bit about it? But in terms of summary stuff IDK if there's anything useable since even looking at videos from RageGamingVideos at this moment is not yielding any meaningful results. Anyway-

Proposed powes & Abilities for Mordomunto: Superhuman Characteristics, Rage Power, Biological Manipulation (Can forcibly secrete a black, heavy fluid from its body which it weaponizes for attacks, and can also seemingly stretch its wing-arms to unnatural lengths (This black fluid is also indicated to be metallic, so this could also be Metal Manipulation but it's not super clear iirc)), Ice Manipulation (Uses ice powers to freeze a heavy, black fluid that it secretes from its body in order to create large spikes), Resistance to Disease Manipulation (Elder Dragons are immune to the Frenzy Virus, which is still potent enough to infect and kill other powerful monsters), Sound Manipulation (Its roar can cause Hunters to flinch), Flight, Berserk Mode (Seems to have go beyond the common rage mode of most monsters, in this state is willing to cause physical harm to itself in order to initiate powerful attacks to wipe out foes), (also it causes bleed using the sharp spikes and horns on its body so that could also be something? This could be related to Body Control or Bodily Weaponry, but I'll leave that up to everyone else)

Proposed Removals: Explosion Manipulation (I've watched the fight and despite the profile currently indicating it creates a blast upon death I'm not seeing anything other than weapon effects still firing off during the victory screen, so this is likely good to be removed), Breath Attack (teeeechnically we never see a conventional breath attack? Unless you would want to count spitting up large wads of the metallic black fluid a breath attack, then we should probably alter this or remove it)

Also, if it helps any, the only High 6-C monsters in its natural environment (Tundra) are Kushala Daora and Deviljho/Savage Deviljho. Also Morudomunto has showcased a very largescale attack which created a huge mass of black fluid in the sky above the glaciers(?), so we can at least infer that the scale it operates on is likely way greater than the basic Building Level low tiers of the verse, and we'd then just be able to change some of the info from the profile to reflect that it would have to scale to Kushala and Deviljho, if any Elder Dragon level monster at all due to what naturally appears in its environment. IDK, lemme know if there was a point to me listing this all out (Morudomunto is cool and I wanted to try and salvage its profile lol)
 
Farunokku, according to this thread, live in the same habitat as Hypnocatrice as they do on occasion mate with each other, but that it is also no pushover when attacked by competing predators. We could alter the scaling justification on its profile to indicate that it is comparable to the likes of Hypnocatrice due to this.

Hyujikiki is apparently only huntable by G-Rank hunters, and it's spikes are considered to be an evolutionary trait developed to counter a specific monster, which appears to be Poborubarumu, so we could scale Hyujikiki to it.

Anyway I have neglected sleep way too much for two days in a row and I have work today I'm going to bed
 
Ah

Well, whenever you're well rested with free time, get it done at your leisure, this info definitely would push it to at least decent
 
As an aside, how do the Xeno'jiiva/Safi'jiiva and Zinogre pages look? I think they're just about good aside from another tab for "Recharged Soul Zinogre" which I have yet to research.
Something I missed, actually

Why is Zorah the justification instead of the Dalamadurs? Like, if there's reference needed for them being there, I could probably find it pretty easily (And speed follows suit, naturally), and there's not a lot saying that Xeno'jiva would necessarily live through it (not to mention inverse square law means they'd take a pittance of the overall damage anyways)
 
So before I get back on the Frontier monsters

Gold Rathian beats up Kushala in a cutscene pretty dominantly, and Silver Rathalos beats up Bazelgeuse in a cutscene so that's neat and we can likely make these additions to the profiles
 
Gasurabazura isn't stated to directly compete with other Large monsters, however it is stated to hunt and kill Kusubami, a Small monster that is a scorpion. It's not really clear what it would scale to. Of all things, we can add something to its weaknesses. When in rage mode, the increased blood flow and strain on its heart becomes so great that if it stays enraged for any decent amount of time it can either seriously injure itself or die.

Bogabadorumu doesn't have a twitter thread to work with unfortunately, the best I can do is hop onto the MH wiki and look at the ecology section where it is referred to as an apex hunter of its environment, but it fears other Zenith monsters and Elder Dragons or something. Still, nothing really to run with.

Gigginox also probably needs an addition to the Powers and Abilities section since it can seemingly just plant an egg mound to spawn more Giggi whenever it wants. It's stated that Gigginox is similar to a close cousin called Khezu, even being considered more agile than it. Since the two are, at least in some facet, directly compared, we could I GUESS scale the two to each other (Perhaps a bit flimsy beyond agility and speed scaling, but still something I guess)? It's also noted that because it is sluggish and takes a while to become active, it can be easy prey for Barioth and Tigrex. Baleful Gigginox is stated to be extremely similar to a regular Gigginox with onyl a few changes, which are primarily in its main method of fighting/element. Baleful is seemingly infertile and cannot birth Giggi to aid it.

Also IDK if we still have a Duremudira profile but according to the twitter thread it has it is considered to be as strong as Disufiroa in base form, and its transformation is considered to be even more powerful than Disufiroa. So that's interesting.

Other than that, I think I've already covered all the other ones listed by DMUA as best I could, so if there are any other monsters we have questions about, link their profiles and I will do my best to look into it.
 
I do appreciate the effort even if I did wish I could feed more to the Tllm machine

That said, what are Zenith monsters, even? There seemed to be a few of those scattered across the pages

Also behold the lad
 
That said, what are Zenith monsters, even? There seemed to be a few of those scattered across the pages
Powercreep for an MMO. Basically endgame versions of standard monsters or even already existing endgame monsters like they gave one to White Fatalis and it now has an attack where if it hits you, you lose. No carting, no chances, you're just dead.

On another note, I made this sandbox so that we can all work on profiles and keep it all in 1 place instead of 10 different sandboxes. First order of business would be to split up The Hunter's profile into the different generations. I'll start on the Astera Hunter later since that should be the easiest one due to the abundance of resources we can use for referencing.
 
I think I saw a video of that

It just outright vaporizes you and you're done

High Regen overtime though, it's fine
Not the only time something like this happens, Zenith Khezu just straight up vores the Hunter (which ya somehow just walk off and come back at camp)
 
More evidence that palicos are the most powerful entities in Monster Hunter

The guys can facetank the sapphire emperor and now you're telling me they can jump into a Kezhu's stomach and rip out a hunter before just blitzing away on a cart
 
Why is Zorah the justification instead of the Dalamadurs?
Honestly, even using Dalamadur is shaky too - we don't know how long Xeno'jiiva has been germinating, we don't know when the Dalamadurs died, we don't know how its absorption powers work, we don't know whether it directly transfers energy sucked into AP, and we don't know whether those Dalamadurs' bioenergy powered the continent, Xeno'jiiva, or just Coral Highlands. It's shrouded in mystery. That said, I don't really believe that Xeno was so smart as to believe it could survive Zorah's explosion (or even know that it would explode at all), so it could just be downgraded to High 6-C.
 
Dalamadur is ultimately an Elder Dragon and would have an immense level of bio-energy to go off of, and absorption is just absorption. If they're able to take even a good chunk of the power, they should be able to have the same output (especially considering the Dalamadur skeletons are just one example out of the entire 200 year history of the Elder Crossing happening to begin with, and just absorbing High 6-Cs on repeat for that long, even if just pieces of their overall power, is bound to get very strong very quickly, enough that Low 6-B isn't really unrealistic)

Just feel like all those considerations are an overcomplication of "Xeno'Jiiva is responsible for the Elder Crossing and as such drew elder Dragons to the new world to die and provide them with bioenergy"
 
I mean, they even say in-game that the Elder Crossing existed for as long as we can recall, the recent uptick in Elder Crossings was likely Xeno's influence, but even then they're not sure that it was really responsible for it. It seems to imply that Xeno, if at all responsible, was only responsible for the last five or so crossings. The only thing we know for certain is that it lured Zorah from its path to the Rotten Vale to the Everstream, which is a far smaller scale event.

Absorbing bioenergy =/= gaining that bioenergy as AP. It's like how a housecat can eat a dead person or a lion can eat an elephant, but doesn't suddenly grow to Human level or whatever an elephant can do in AP or whatnot.
 
I mean, they even say in-game that the Elder Crossing existed for as long as we can recall, the recent uptick in Elder Crossings was likely Xeno's influence, but even then they're not sure that it was really responsible for it. It seems to imply that Xeno, if at all responsible, was only responsible for the last five or so crossings. The only thing we know for certain is that it lured Zorah from its path to the Rotten Vale to the Everstream, which is a far smaller scale event.

Absorbing bioenergy =/= gaining that bioenergy as AP. It's like how a housecat can eat a dead person or a lion can eat an elephant, but doesn't suddenly grow to Human level or whatever an elephant can do in AP or whatnot.
Wasn't Zorah's bioenergy going to nuke the New World tho? Shouldn't that mean that still mean that related to AP since it was going to do that.
 
Wasn't Zorah's bioenergy going to nuke the New World tho? Shouldn't that mean that still mean that related to AP since it was going to do that.
Not necessarily. The efficiency of consumption does not translate 1:1 with, like, any kind of energy. Exploding on death is kind of a property of Zorah specifically, too, not necessarily a statement on the setting's assumptions about AP and life force or what not.

Also, just existing uses up energy, so even if you do fully imbibe it 1:1 it's not like once you absorb something you have all that energy forever, especially after years.
 
Absorbing bioenergy =/= gaining that bioenergy as AP. It's like how a housecat can eat a dead person or a lion can eat an elephant, but doesn't suddenly grow to Human level or whatever an elephant can do in AP or whatnot.
A housecat also can't put an entire human in their stomach to begin with, and the digestion process itself has a lot of inefficiencies that just absorbing it would not possess.
It seems to imply that Xeno, if at all responsible, was only responsible for the last five or so crossings. The only thing we know for certain is that it lured Zorah from its path to the Rotten Vale to the Everstream, which is a far smaller scale event.
I guess this is fair, I might have just forgotten some of the details and figured Zorah was attempting to spite Xeno'Jiiva instead of being lured to them (and Xeno just making a mistake because Zorah would have just melted everything in the process)

Even then, wasn't it messing with the Everstream? Dead monsters still go there no matter what, and they would have fed off of the Dalamadur's corpses regardless.
 
A housecat also can't put an entire human in their stomach to begin with, and the digestion process itself has a lot of inefficiencies that just absorbing it would not possess.

I guess this is fair, I might have just forgotten some of the details and figured Zorah was attempting to spite Xeno'Jiiva instead of being lured to them (and Xeno just making a mistake because Zorah would have just melted everything in the process)

Even then, wasn't it messing with the Everstream? Dead monsters still go there no matter what, and they would have fed off of the Dalamadur's corpses regardless.
We don't know whether it absorbed 99% of the continent's natural energy or 0.000001% since a pre-Xeno'jiiva New World is not depicted, or how much energy exists in the Everstream versus the lands above, the time scale Xeno'jiiva actually began to suck stuff (i.e. when it was laid), and so on and so forth. It's full of vagueness.

In any case, if you wanted to really split hairs about this whole bioenergy = attack business, Safi's Sapphire of the Emperor was in-universe speculated to take an equivalent amount of energy as it would to spawn a Xeno'jiiva (enough to make it use it sparingly), so we could just bump the whole species up to 5-A or whatnot. I'd actually be fine with that for simplicity's sake, since they straight-up say that the only reason the Sapphire Star could defeat Xeno'jiiva was that it had just hatched and didn't have its full capabilities online (meaning it can scale down to whatever we need it to be for the purposes of showings in the in-game hunt) in the Dive to MHW book.
 
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Would it be cool if I added "Will inflict harm on itself to initiate powerful attacks via slashing itself with its claws" to Morudomunto's weaknesses, or nah?

In-game I don't think this action deals any damage to the monster but I figure it would probably be good to include it, right?
 
I highly doubt the emperor of the elders that's being absorbing the energy of countless High 6-C/Low 6-B monsters for decades should be any lower than Low 6-B, period (Anything else is semantics and trying to prove a negative).

Anyway I'm glad we've started with the key split with the Hunter while updating the profiles for more obscure monsters.
 
Would it be cool if I added "Will inflict harm on itself to initiate powerful attacks via slashing itself with its claws" to Morudomunto's weaknesses, or nah?

In-game I don't think this action deals any damage to the monster but I figure it would probably be good to include it, right?
It would probably be fine to note it but it should probably be noted that the monster isn't bothered by those self inflicted wounds. Wouldn't make much sense for it to inflict serious damage onto itself would it.
 
We don't know whether it absorbed 99% of the continent's natural energy or 0.000001%, or how much energy exists in the Everstream versus the lands above, the time scale Xeno'jiiva actually began to suck stuff (i.e. when it was laid), and so on and so forth. It's full of vagueness. In either case, if you wanted to really split hairs about this whole bioenergy = attack business, Safi's Sapphire of the Emperor was in-universe speculated to take an equivalent amount of energy as it would to spawn a Xeno'jiiva (enough to make it use it sparingly), so we could just bump the whole species up to 5-A or whatnot.
  • There is a speculation paragraph, it talks about how Safi'jiiva may reproduce asexually through Sapphire of the Emperor. The absolute pure energy of the attack would result in the creation of a being of pure energy, a Xeno'jiiva.
???

Coupled with the Alaetron statement of them going to the secluded valley to kill Safi eggs before they breed, this implies that their reproduction process is atomizing their breeding grounds every time they want to have a child, and just... What? I don't get why they'd speculate this for more than 2 seconds before slapping themselves for having such an insane idea (especially considering there's a demonstrable lack of Safi eggs at the center of the blast radius whenever one of those fires off)

Yes, we don't know specific energy values, but we can take the Occam's razor route and take the simple assumption that it would indeed be manyfold more times powerful than a normal Elder Dragon on account of it's abilities, and it's feeding off of something with two Dalamadur corpses (just off of what we can find from a 200 year long event, even) in it should scale to Low 6-B
 
It would probably be fine to note it but it should probably be noted that the monster isn't bothered by those self inflicted wounds. Wouldn't make much sense for it to inflict serious damage onto itself would it.
Given that there are monsters like Gasurabazura kills itself if it stays angry too long it wouldn't be surprising to me if Morudomunto knows it's actually hurting itself and just doesn't care lmao
 
  • There is a speculation paragraph, it talks about how Safi'jiiva may reproduce asexually through Sapphire of the Emperor. The absolute pure energy of the attack would result in the creation of a being of pure energy, a Xeno'jiiva.
???

Coupled with the Alaetron statement of them going to the secluded valley to kill Safi eggs before they breed, this implies that their reproduction process is atomizing their breeding grounds every time they want to have a child, and just... What? I don't get why they'd speculate this for more than 2 seconds before slapping themselves for having such an insane idea (especially considering there's a demonstrable lack of Safi eggs at the center of the blast radius whenever one of those fires off)
My personal theory about it is that Xeno'jiivas are born from a large quantity of energy. This would explain how World's Xeno came to be due to the Elders Crossing releasing massive amounts of energy along with hoe there was another Xeno that grew up to become Safi due to it being near the Guiding Lands which is noted to brim with bioenergy (likely reason as to why is due to the dead Zorah you can find there).
 
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