Monster Hunter General Discussion Thread.

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

looking forward to the Hunter Royale once we have different profiles for each version

I'm betting on the Frontier Hunter, gotta love that MMO powercreep.

Yes, we don't know specific energy values, but we can take the Occam's razor route and take the simple assumption that it would indeed be manyfold more times powerful than a normal Elder Dragon on account of it's abilities, and it's feeding off of something with two Dalamadur corpses (just off of what we can find from a 200 year long event, even) in it should scale to Low 6-B

I don't know if this helps with scaling but...


Note that this Zorah skeleton is above the Secluded Valley where Safi'Jiiva lives.

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I'm betting on the Frontier Hunter, gotta love that MMO powercreep.

IDK, World Hunter's Mantles are honestly kinda nuts, alongside general wirebug mobility for Rise/Sunbreak Hunter

actually Tri/3U Hunter wins because they're the only Hunter who is strong enough to swim and therefore sweeps the competition lol

 

[DMUA]

I'm betting on the Frontier Hunter, gotta love that MMO powercreep.


I don't know if this helps with scaling but...


Note that this Zorah skeleton is above the Secluded Valley where Safi'Jiiva lives.

I don't really see it? It's hard to really pin that as Zorah, but also one of the comments mentions that's why you need Guiding Lands materials to make the final upgrade for their weapons and that kinda sounds right but I don't know

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

I don't really see it? It's hard to really pin that as Zorah, but also one of the comments mentions that's why you need Guiding Lands materials to make the final upgrade for their weapons and that kinda sounds right but I don't know

It's easier to see it if you focus on the nose-horn thing of the skull imo

 

[Sigilavox]

Coupled with the Alaetron statement of them going to the secluded valley to kill Safi eggs before they breed, this implies that their reproduction process is atomizing their breeding grounds every time they want to have a child, and just... What? I don't get why they'd speculate this for more than 2 seconds before slapping themselves for having such an insane idea (especially considering there's a demonstrable lack of Safi eggs at the center of the blast radius whenever one of those fires off)

Yeah, though the series generally tends to produce excellent examples of exaggerated gamified natural systems and wildlife, sometimes it's... er... Note that it could just be a mistranslation or something, the raws exist somewhere.

Yes, we don't know specific energy values, but we can take the Occam's razor route and take the simple assumption that it would indeed be manyfold more times powerful than a normal Elder Dragon on account of it's abilities, and it's feeding off of something with two Dalamadur corpses (just off of what we can find from a 200 year long event, even) in it should scale to Low 6-B

I highly doubt the emperor of the elders that's being absorbing the energy of countless High 6-C/Low 6-B monsters for decades should be any lower than Low 6-B, period (Anything else is semantics and trying to prove a negative).

Just because Elder Dragons dying adds bioenergy to the entire New World through the Everstream (seemingly every hundred years or so in normal conditions), does not mean that Xeno'jiiva absorbs all of it, or even a significant portion when it happens. Especially since the Dalamadurs died in the Vale, which is most certainly not what Xeno'jiiva would have happen if it was trying to suck their energy specifically. No Dalamadurs made the crossing in the last few decades (those were way back in the past) so their energy was most likely just distributed around the continent a long time ago, likely before Xeno even was around. All that said, I had forgotten how close Low 6-B is to High 6-C, like by a factor of five or something, so I wouldn't be too against this upscaling for simplicity's sake.

Note that this Zorah skeleton is above the Secluded Valley where Safi'Jiiva lives.

They mention that the Guiding Lands was created when a different Zorah died a long ass time ago. I'd have to find the pages somewhere, though.

IDK, World Hunter's Mantles are honestly kinda nuts, alongside general wirebug mobility for Rise/Sunbreak Hunter

Not since Temporal was nerfed to six hits, lol. I guess Rocksteady is a thing, though.

 

[DMUA]

Not since Temporal was nerfed to six hits, lol. I guess Rocksteady is a thing, though.

Temporal is still definitely amazing for fights where you really have to worry about taking hits, just not overtly overpowered

(Though in terms of canon there is a fair point, since it is stated to be formulated from the Huntsman's speed and skill and the Huntsman gets blitzed by one of Velkhana's ice walls, so)

 

[GimmyJibbsJr]

tbf when Temporal Mantle is gone, Evasion Mantle would be nice as well because it makes manual dodging easier instead of allowing for autonomous dodging like Temporal

Mantles and Boosters are pretty nice lol

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

IDK, World Hunter's Mantles are honestly kinda nuts, alongside general wirebug mobility for Rise/Sunbreak Hunter

actually Tri/3U Hunter wins because they're the only Hunter who is strong enough to swim and therefore sweeps the competition lol

Yeah crossover memes aside the fifth fleeter/Sapphire Star is quite stacked and the 4U caravan hunter is up there too (I wonder how they'll react to the Ace Cadet aka Aidan actually becoming strong enough to face Fatalis?).

Until will get more updates for Sunbreak, I think it's too early to rank the fierce Kamura hunter (tho their tools are quite impressive).

But ofc the 3rd gen hunter's (minus MHP3rd) swimming abilities are truly too strong and will likely wash the competition away, being able to dive and swim in heavy armour is broken.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

They mention that the Guiding Lands was created when a different Zorah died a long ass time ago. I'd have to find the pages somewhere, though.

The Frost Islands in MH Rise also has a Zorah skull plus the torso skeleton of another massive monster (it could be just Zorah tho) and ofc you can find rare endemic life that's a hill sized snail.

Don't you just love seeing kaiju's wandering around or discovering they remains?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

On another note, I made this sandbox so that we can all work on profiles and keep it all in 1 place instead of 10 different sandboxes. First order of business would be to split up The Hunter's profile into the different generations. I'll start on the Astera Hunter later since that should be the easiest one due to the abundance of resources we can use for referencing.

Did some work on this, nowhere near done as I'm also working on 2 other sandboxes at the same time. Feel free to do some work on it if you feel like there is something ya can do for it.

 

[Sigilavox]

Anyone who wants to help out or just see what I've got so far in terms of profile standardization, check this google doc out. Y'all should have editing privileges.

Thoughts?

 

[DMUA]

Feel free to do some work on it if you feel like there is something ya can do for it.

Honestly, since there is (slightly) more room to breathe I feel there should be more keys to work with, at least for each major power spike

Split high rank to have "entering the Elder's Recess" (where they fight Elder Dragons) and then "End of High Rank" where they fight Xeno'Jiiva

Master Rank in particular could use this since the 5-A rating is purely from title updates and the actual progression just has you be stronger than before to some vague extent in the process of fighting Shara (and that might also have a bunch of ability implications, since those do need to be split into tabbers too but I'm not sure)

Granted I could edit this in now but I feel some amount of discussion is warranted first

 

[Sigilavox]

How's Zinogre coming along @Sigilavox?

Okay, Zinogre should be done. We don't have the non-mainline versions, but those can be added later. Does one need a CRT thread to upload a profile?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Okay, Zinogre should be done. We don't have the non-mainline versions, but those can be added later. Does one need a CRT thread to upload a profile?

I would have either @DMUA or @Mr._Bambu evaluate it before posting but otherwise it looks great.

 

[Sigilavox]

A side note on intelligence; until we do the Intelligence CRT, I'll just make Dragon Element resistance/vulnerability the default assumption for intelligence. As said before, I disagree with this scaling, but for the time being it'll be what I use for the profiles I sandbox. If a subspecies is more resistant to Dragon Element than the base species, I'll make them comparable to the base, but variations with higher Dragon weakness will be improved.

That said, humans take 100% dragon damage while dragon-weak monsters take 25-30% at most, so I will put their intelligence as "Animalistic" for the time being.

 

[DMUA]

A side note on intelligence; until we do the Intelligence CRT, I'll just make Dragon Element resistance/vulnerability the default assumption for intelligence.

Makes sense to stay consistent

Anyways

Okay, Zinogre should be done. We don't have the non-mainline versions, but those can be added later. Does one need a CRT thread to upload a profile?

Feel like the scaling should be done better

Cite some turf wars instead of just saying "yeah they're probably on this thing's level", there's at least a few Here

 

[Sigilavox]

Feel like the scaling should be done better

Added Zin/Stygian vs Rathalos turf wars as citations for speed and AP. There are no feats for Thunderlord or Apex.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Huh, interesting thing I found out about Monsters. The more you use a status against them the more resistant they become to said status.

 

[Sigilavox]

Huh, interesting thing I found out about Monsters. The more you use a status against them the more resistant they become to said status.

Yes, to make it harder to perma-lock them via statuses. They build up resistance over a hunt to a certain cap. Kind of like how they added flash resistance buildup in Iceborne because people kept spamming flashpods in HR to trivialize fliers.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Hm, could that be treated as a Reactive Evolution I wonder?

On another note, I found a statement saying that Effluvium causes Hunters to suffocate but the Astera Hunter is capable of running through the stuff just fine even without the resistance skills. What would that qualify as?

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Yes, to make it harder to perma-lock them via statuses. They build up resistance over a hunt to a certain cap. Kind of like how they added flash resistance buildup in Iceborne because people kept spamming flashpods in HR to trivialize fliers.

Oh yeah Sig, do ya know where I can find scans of that MH Ecology book you have? It would probably help a ton to read through it myself for the Astera Hunter profile.

 

[DMUA]

Added Zin/Stygian vs Rathalos turf wars as citations for speed and AP. There are no feats for Thunderlord or Apex.

Much better

On another note, I found a statement saying that Effluvium causes Hunters to suffocate but the Astera Hunter is capable of running through the stuff just fine even without the resistance skills. What would that qualify as?

What is the original statement? Idle animations definitely show the sapphire star coughing up his lungs if he's in the effluvium (and that's remedied by just putting on a mantel anyways), so it may not be nearly as severe as just "you drown in air"

 

[Sigilavox]

Hm, could that be treated as a Reactive Evolution I wonder?

I'd say Limited Reactive Evolution, given it caps out?

Oh yeah Sig, do ya know where I can find scans of that MH Ecology book you have? It would probably help a ton to read through it myself for the Astera Hunter profile.

Your guess is as good as mine for scan locations. I just own the book, lol. It's this book; I bought it in a Barnes and Nobles for a bit less than you can get on Amazon.

If you want any scans, I can go over the general book layout and see what I can pull regarding topics of interest.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

I'd say Limited Reactive Evolution, given it caps out?


Your guess is as good as mine for scan locations. I just own the book, lol. It's this book; I bought it in a Barnes and Nobles for a bit less than you can get on Amazon.

If you want any scans, I can go over the general book layout and see what I can pull regarding topics of interest.

Thanks, if ya could get some scans about Val, Effluvium/Effluvia and the Rotten Vale that would be great.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

What is the original statement? Idle animations definitely show the sapphire star coughing up his lungs if he's in the effluvium (and that's remedied by just putting on a mantel anyways), so it may not be nearly as severe as just "you drown in air"

I found in this BannedLagiacrus lore blog. From my understanding the Effluvium uses up all the oxygen that it comes into contact with which is why sometimes Val pushes it away so that it can breath a little.

 

[DMUA]

It doesn't really say that, it just says it pushes stuff away for "fresh air", which isn't very synonymous with "oxygen whatsoever because effluvium constantly deletes it"

 

[JoshSSJGod]

It doesn't really say that, it just says it pushes stuff away for "fresh air", which isn't very synonymous with "oxygen whatsoever because effluvium constantly deletes it"

"Despite Vaal Hazak living in areas filled with effluvium, it needs oxygen like any other living thing. Vaal Hazak's height allows it to stand over the gas, and it primarily uses its wings to push effluvium away from its body so it can get some fresh air."

It 100% says more than just pushing stuff away for fresh air. If Val needs to push the effluvium away to get oxygen then that tells us that the effluvium doesn't have any oxygen in it for Val to inhale.

 

[DMUA]

Just from what we actually see in game (Especially since every single other monster in the rotten vale is uninhibited by it) I don't think it's severe enough to be a particular resistance

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Just from what we actually see in game (Especially since every single other monster in the rotten vale is uninhibited by it) I don't think it's severe enough to be a particular resistance

The Sapphire Star still has access to decorations to give themselves a resistance to what it can to anyway, also I found this on the topic which mentions how its poisonous and suffocating.

 

[Sigilavox]

Photo album of the requested topics is being uploaded.

Also, while compiling photos on the Rotten Vale, Vaal Hazak, and Effluvium, I found this quote:

"In ancient times, the release of Zorah Magdaros's bioenergy and an equal-sized explosion caused sudden tectonic movements on land and in the ocean floors. The coral from back then have gone extinct, but the varieties that survived in the atmosphere, through the Everstream successfully adapted to life on land. Perhaps the underground cavity was created below layers of the coral's growth..."

Zorah genuinely straight-up explodes on death. It makes no sense why the Commission said it would be even remotely fine if in the ocean, considering, like the meteor that killed the dinosaurs landed in the ocean and still threw a million years of ash and dust into the atmosphere, drowning the planet from sunlight and starving/freezing the dinosaurs and most plantlife unto extinction. That meteor was only a few times more potent than Zorah's supposed New World explosion, so Zorah definitely would have done a hell of a lot more than just creating a new ecosystem or an island upon death. In any case, this probably means Bambu's calculation works better than mine for the purposes of New World destruction and all.

 

[DMUA]

I think Bambu's calc also uses old horizon standards too

If it is really an explosion it'd probably be comparable to something thermonuclear considering the descriptions of incineration we also have

 

[Sigilavox]

Thanks, if ya could get some scans about Val, Effluvium/Effluvia and the Rotten Vale that would be great.

Imgur Albums:

• Vaal Hazak
• Rotten Vale

Note that the first-person narration is from a "Nameless Handler" (not a named character), hence some of their conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Sigilavox]

I think Bambu's calc also uses old horizon standards too

If it is really an explosion it'd probably be comparable to something thermonuclear considering the descriptions of incineration we also have

Welp, if we use a 10km radius for the horizon on the explosion calc, we get a total of like 30 gigatons before dividing by two. Now that I think about it, using the Coral Highlands 10 km radius for the radius of the Highlands results in a New World radius of like 60 km, which... is pretty small. That's what the current equation uses, but unfortunately we don't have any numbers on the actual size of the continent to confirm.

 

[JoshSSJGod]

Imgur Albums:

• Vaal Hazak
• Rotten Vale

Note that the first-person narration is from a "Nameless Handler" (not a named character), hence some of their conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt.

Thanks! These help a lot for scans since the Rotten Vale provides the most resistances to the Sapphire Star, it also helps that there is a mention of a oxygen deprivation due to the Effluvium consuming the oxygen.

 

[Sigilavox]

Thanks! These help a lot for scans since the Rotten Vale provides the most resistances to the Sapphire Star, it also helps that there is a mention of a oxygen deprivation due to the Effluvium consuming the oxygen.

Indeed, though the way it's phrased it seems that Effluvium only becomes a suffocating issue when a huge amount of food drops from above and causes the bacteria to explosively reproduce; i.e. an algae bloom, which causes so much proliferation of the Effluvium that it sucks oxygen out of the air on such a scale that the surrounding life becomes deprived. I don't think the Hunter canonically goes through any situations where it gets that bad. Otherwise, it's kind of like fishes swimming around algae; not particularly impactful on their oxygen levels.

 

[DMUA]

Welp, if we use a 10km radius for the horizon on the explosion calc, we get a total of like 30 gigatons before dividing by two. Now that I think about it, using the Coral Highlands 10 km radius for the radius of the Highlands results in a New World radius of like 60 km, which... is pretty small. That's what the current equation uses, but unfortunately we don't have any numbers on the actual size of the continent to confirm.

Honestly considering the atmosphere of the coral highlands one can make a pretty solid case for just using something else and hope the fin al resu lt makes more sense

Ancient Forest and Elder's Recess are the two better picks I can think of

 

[Sigilavox]

Honestly considering the atmosphere of the coral highlands one can make a pretty solid case for just using something else and hope the fin al resu lt makes more sense

Ancient Forest and Elder's Recess are the two better picks I can think of

If we take cutscene speeds as-is, the Legiana traveling from the Ancient Forest to the Hoarfrost Reach traveled about ~32 kilometers in 1:04, assuming Astalos-equivalent speed.

 

[DMUA]

That'd be calc stacking so

Is there any like, statement as to the flight speed of a Legiana, or a close analog that can be used instead?

Otherwise, again, Ancient forest and elder's recess are better considerations (or really anywhere without fog where you can stand high above the ground)

 

[Sigilavox]

What's our end-goal here? Trying to get a 50km radius or a 280 km radius?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

What's our end-goal here? Trying to get a 50km radius or a 280 km radius?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the New World called a continent and iirc we only explore a small fraction of it (if the map in the mid tier Hunter's quarters is anything to go by). If worst comes to worst we could use Oceania as the baseline, it's likely dubious to use a real-life continent tho.