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Maki Zen'in VS Mira Yoo • (10-10-1)
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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Arnold, bruh, Yongje draws the shoulder NOT BEING BLOODY far more times than it's shown to be bloody. It is shown twice the number of times that the shoulder is uninjured than it is injured.
Shoulder is fine. Shoulder is fine. Shoulder is fine. Shoulder is fine.
Yongje literally ******* shows her GETTING CUT AND BLEEDING then immediately has her be NOT BLEEDING WITH ONLY SCARS. His art is objectively inconsistent to the point its not even funny.
Literally neither the plot or the art supports your interpretation.
It goes like this.
Seungcheol Baek has analytical prediction that let's him appear 3x faster than an opponent he is slower than. He can also analyze fights down to incredibly specific details with no prior knowledge, just by looking at a fight scene.
Seungcheol could not figure out the Wave of the Blue Dragon before Mori Jin did. He had experienced it once before and seen it used from the stands another time, but Mori read deeper than Seungcheol after only experiencing the skill once.
Ilpyo Park neutralizes all of Mori's skills with his own. We know Ilpyo has his own natural analytical ability (shown here) so his analytical skill is separate from Gaksu or sheer experience.
Ilpyo gets a blitz level amp faster than his base speed and blitzes Mori, whose faster than Mira (easily outspeeds someone comparable to Mira) and Mira defeats him.
TLDR - Seungcheol (3x prediction + uncanny analysis) < Mori (Predicted something after one try Seungcheol couldn't do after seeing it twice, once having it directly used on him and other time seeing it from afar) < Ilpyo (Neutralizes all of Mori's skills) <= Mira (Outskills Ilpyo after he gets basically 2 blitzes faster than she is)
Idk why you keep saying Maki has high mobility, because that doesn't matter in a CQC fight. It's irrelevant if she can jump around good because this is a sword fight, not an acrobat fight. Nor do I understand where the "superior stamina" comes from, because the Zen'in massacre isn't a stamina feat.
And on the subject of blade clashing, refer to this post. There's no such thing as a sword fighter who seeks out a blade clash. You watch to much anime. Mira isn't going to attempt to get her sword cut.
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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Mugai violates.
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- Thread starter
- #127
Is it a vote!?
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yeah lol
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Youre just jealous you dont have a skill wank character
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You're*
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Mods, crush his skull. Thank you.
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- Thread starter
- #136
Nah... bro added an apostrophe
Mods crack open his skull and feed his brain to the ducks.
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Finally.
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Seungcheol has always been the number one analytical genius at this point in the series. No one comes close to him.
I disagree that Seungcheol was unable to figure out Wave of the Blue Dragon. Based on your scans he did infact deduce what the skill was the first time he experienced it. but he didn’t know the last stage of the skill until it was specifically shown to him and he’s literally the only one who knew how Mori countered it besides Mori himself, Seung simply lacks the skill to pull it off hence why I believe that’s why he doesn’t want to fight Mori. Whatever the case may be This also has absolutely nothing to do with analytical prediction cuz Mori used his first experience on the move to counter it the second time.
Like I said before, Llypo park has knowledge on all of Mori’s moves and even the direct counters and weaknesses to those moves so Llypo was just more skilled than Mori. He was even training Mori midfight lol until Mori finally adapted.(chapter 82), Gaksu was the only analytical prediction shown which requires body contact for it to work well. Secondly in your scan, Llypo admits that his innate prediction isn’t that good as that blue dude made it look (Llpyo just had a general sense based off weight and speed, everything else was pure “luck” also pre-awakened Maki had done something similar to deduce Naoya’s cursed technique just by watching the way Naoya moved). So it’s definitely nowhere near as good as Seungcheol who can literally do this.
Lastly, you’re wrong you can’t just scale Mira’s skill on the surface level like that. Unlike Llpyo vs Mori, Llpyo park does not know all of Mira’s moves and has 0 effective counters to them asides just pure fighting skill which he displays better than Mira until she awakened. Llpyo also didn’t even use his physical contact based precog on Mira like he does with Mori + he was already very close to his limit. Mira still gets blitzed consistently in base up until she amps her stats with borrowed power, then cuts one of his eyes which throws off his accuracy all just to keep up. Llypo had already reached his limit before she even used her final attack. These are very important and obvious contexts you casually left out all just to make Mira more impressive than she actually is.
Llpyo is clearly still far superior to Mira in the skill and analytical department.
TL;DR
Analytical prediction: Seungcheol > Mori = Llpyo >> Mira.
Maki > Mira.
Skill: Llpyo = Mori >>> Seungcheol/Mira > Maki
At this point some of you guys are just glazing Mira’s skill. Mira is more skilled than Maki no doubt but to a nonsensical level where she avoid every hits and even a few sword clashes? No. Also, Mira’s best skill feat against analytical prediction users (not even precog users) is just fighting a far weakened Llpyo whose analytical prediction isn’t even that good, he also had one eye and was almost at his limit.
Mobility is important in a fight to adapt to any environment. Maki could easily break the ground to throw off Mira’s balance, meanwhile Maki would just interact with the air to keep balance. Not to mention this is just a regular fight, Maki doesn’t have to keep this a sword fight all the time.
Maki pretty much just wins faster now with her precognition now. Maki’s stamina and endurance should take the W as well.
You do realize this also nukes your argument as much as it nukes mine? Right?
This is the last post I’ll dedicate to this because in the end, Mira says: “I targeted the sword stuck in his shoulder to cause internal damage with Marionette.” Implying she simply can’t perform durability negation unless something is stuck in the body.
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Make profilesNah, I just hate skill debates. Don't need them when MUGAI SLAMS
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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That's exactly what I'm saying, because my argument simply has more evidence pointing to it? When one stance has stronger evidence it is not a bad look to turn to it instead of an argument with weaker evidence.
Yongje's art being inconsistent doesn't defeat my argument because it's shown several more times that Mira doesn't require the sword directly embedded within flesh to perform Marionette. We see several times that the sword does not in fact reach far enough into the shoulder pad when she does so. The art in this instance is very consistent in what is trying to be communicated. Tacked on with the fact we very clearly see Mira perform Marionette without an embedded weapon, it becomes evident what's going on here.
At worst, you could argue that she needs some sort of catalyst attached to more durable opponents to perform it. But Maki hasn't shown any form of resistance to bladed or piercing weapons in the story, so Mira shouldn't be unable to cut her, so she shouldn't require to slowly reverberate waves from within Maki.
I'll respond to the rest of your post later, because it is much longer. Or maybe I won't and will just let people vote, idk.
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So you are essentially willing to exploit the extreme inconsistency of the art while ignoring the fact that Mira herself says Shoulder and not the shoulder pads all just to support your point.
Okay Bro, whatever you say. It’s clear we’ve reached an impasss so I’ll leave it up to the votes.
My point has always been Marionette is not durability negation unless something is stuck in the body. I never said Marionette isn’t going to be used at all.
Also Maki is not getting any severe injuries from attacks 6x weaker than her. Her body is comparable, if not superior, to those who are amped by cursed energy. Those who are far superior in JJK can’t be harmed by bladed weapons as shown with Nanami vs Shigemo and Itadori when he faced countless slashes from Sukuna all over his body.
So if couple Maki’s massive durability advantage compared with her insane stamina and endurance, that makes outlasting Mira a very valid wincon. (Winning via precognition + all all her other advantages are also just as much as a valid wincon as outlasting her)
Okay Bro, whatever you say. It’s clear we’ve reached an impasss so I’ll leave it up to the votes.
This is what I said bro.
My point has always been Marionette is not durability negation unless something is stuck in the body. I never said Marionette isn’t going to be used at all.
Also Maki is not getting any severe injuries from attacks 6x weaker than her. Her body is comparable, if not superior, to those who are amped by cursed energy. Those who are far superior in JJK can’t be harmed by bladed weapons as shown with Nanami vs Shigemo and Itadori when he faced countless slashes from Sukuna all over his body.
So if couple Maki’s massive durability advantage compared with her insane stamina and endurance, that makes outlasting Mira a very valid wincon. (Winning via precognition + all all her other advantages are also just as much as a valid wincon as outlasting her)
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Mira is the better waifu
I vote her
I vote her
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There is no way you actually counted that vote.
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I read azontr’s arguments bro
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Whatever you say bro.
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- Thread starter
- #149
I assumed he isn't just trolling
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No shame
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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How is it "exploiting the art" if the art shows what I say more than what you say????
The art being inconsistent means that we go with what it shows more consistently more than what isn't. It's not exploiting shit to point out what is more consistently portrayed to be the norm.
If you're mad that you're wrong just say so.
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“Art Bad”
“Using this same art I will prove I am right and you are wrong”
Mira: “but you are wrong”
“But the art shows something different”
“Using this same art I will prove I am right and you are wrong”
Mira: “but you are wrong”
“But the art shows something different”
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I swore I posted in this thread before. Arnold's arguments seem more convincing at the moment. I'm not really sure how she gets around Maki's sensing+OHKO sword, especially with her innate toughness and healing helping towards that goal.
Voting Maki
Voting Maki
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I need to get back to studying so help me out over here.
Right now the authenticity of Mira’s skill chain against precog is debated here. I argued that she doesn’t even scale to Llypo at all. So the entire scale falls apart.
I forgot Maki could just step out of the fight to take a breather and heal before jumping back in.
Right now the authenticity of Mira’s skill chain against precog is debated here. I argued that she doesn’t even scale to Llypo at all. So the entire scale falls apart.
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
- 50,192
Literal
"But the panels show the shoulder bleeding twice!!"
Shows it being fine more times than it's injured.
"W-Well, the art is inconsistent so even if the shoulder is shown to be fine, that means you can't use it as evidence!"
That's not how consistency works.
"W-Well you're wrong! Here's this short copypasta proving it!"
Log off.
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Okay buddy. Like I was the one who made the claim that the art is inconsistent.
At this point my only response to all this Marionette debate is Mira said it’s stuck in the shoulder, not shoulder pad, so it’s stuck in the shoulder.
At this point my only response to all this Marionette debate is Mira said it’s stuck in the shoulder, not shoulder pad, so it’s stuck in the shoulder.
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Anne fra
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- Thread starter
- #158
Who??
azontr
He/Him- 40,579
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You were the one who called me exploitative for using the art as evidence so clearly you believe that it's inconsistent or else I wouldn't be exploiting anything would I
don't say shit if you don't believe it.
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Arc is the one making them you absolute goober.Make profiles
Kill this man in cold-blood.
