Minor Kenbunshoku Haki Revision (again)

[CinCameron20]

Okay, this has spoilers for chapter 893. I believe that users with Kenbunshoku Haki should now qualify for Instinctive Reaction.

As stated by Rayleigh: "...Beyond that imagination is the color of Observation...!! Become able to sense it unconsciously!!" and Luffy evaded an attack from Flampe whilst in the middle of unconsciousness.

This probably would only apply to characters with at least a proficient level of application due to the obviously high amount of focus it requires, and that Luffy is just now capable of doing this.

 

[Reppuzan]

I don't know if sensing unconsciously and moving unconsciously should be smushed together.

 

[DodoNova2]

the chapter was awesome!!!

 

[CinCameron20]

@Reppuzan - what do you mean?

 

[CinCameron20]

I should also take this opportunity to bring up that users of Kenbunshoku Haki are capable of sensing and empathizing with the nature of others. Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, and Otohime all did this. Is this some sub-category for mind-reading?

We can hold off on discussing Instinctive Reaction if it feels as though the current examples are too vague, though I thought it qualified.

 

[Reppuzan]

I read the chapter and I get that Luffy dodged an attack unconsciously, but I'm not sure if it counts since he's not fighting unconsciously either.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Reppuzan - Fair point. It's Probably best to wait for the next chapter since this isn't exact confirmation. Luffy hasn't fully grasped the concept of it, but certainly more practiced users such as Katakuri, Fujitora, and Doflamingo would be able to use it. I will wait until next week though.

Due to my last response, how does Limited Telepathy sound for Kenbunshoku Haki users? I can find the scans to provide examples.

 

[CinCameron20]

Another translation of Rayleigh's statement, but IDK if this changes anything.

 

[Reppuzan]

Still, unconsciously perceiving something can still be chocked up to precog.

Once Luffy is able to go full throttle fighting without thinking, then I'll give the okay.

 

[LordGinSama]

Unconsciously reacting to something should count as limited instinctive Reaction, while Luffy was in the middle of being unconscious he managed to evade an attack without manually moving or reacting, his body did it himself. I don't think we can classify that as precog as it's more akin to Instinctive Reaction rather than precog.


So imo it should be either "possible" Instinctive Reaction or limited Instinctive Reaction. But I'll wait for more input. Not only that but I think Luffy being able to attack with his mind off in Skypeia would further back this up.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Knight

You can also do that with precog and muscle memory. Instinctive Reaction is the abiltiy to fight without thinking. Dodging alone does not qualify.

 

[LordGinSama]

I don't recall any forms of precog working like that. Especially Kenbunshoku Haki which requires you to be focused and calm to work, and here Luffy isn't exactly what I call focused or calm. Also as pointed out earlier Luffy has shown the ability to fight without thinking as seen in Skypeia so I think that backs things up.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Knight

That's still not the same as something like Ultra Instinct.

 

[LordGinSama]

Hence why I mentioned limited as it's clearly not on that level. But at the same time I disagree that this is simple precog.

 

[Reppuzan]

Being able to sense the flow of events is definitely precog, even if it's done unconsciously.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I dont think we even have a word for this tbh.

I thought instinctive reaction when I read it, but considering it is 'linked' to precog, I didnt consider making a crt.

I just think it is just 'instant precog'

 

[CinCameron20]

We can ignore the Instinctive Reaction topic for now until it becomes prominent enough in the manga to clearly qualify. Right now it's pretty vague.

I really do believe that we should include some form of mind-reading or telepathy (or whatever this classifies as) for Kenbunshoku Haki users as there's evidence of these haki users sensing and empathizing with the emotion and intent of individuals that are present. Here's some examples:

• Otohime hearing the cries from Tiger's heart and sensing the intent of a thief and empathizing in both cases.

• Coby, when having no control over the ability, empathized with the pain of the marines after the war, and this clearly affected him. During the war, the voices in his head (each marine and pirate) were disappearing one by one and it visibly affected him as he could feel their suffering.

• Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji sense Caribou's evil intent and thus go to protect Shirahoshi.

Do you believe this is acceptable for limited Telepathy (or something of the sort), Reppuzan? I'm uncertain as to what this qualifies as. maybe Power Reading under Extrasensory Perception, but I'm not sure.

 

[Reppuzan]

Hmm... that could be read as Telepathy or Empathy.

Telepathy or Extrasensory Perception could work here, but I'm not sure which one to add since we don't have a page for Empathy without Empathic Manipulation.

 

[CinCameron20]

I think it may qualify as Telepathy, but I'd have to describe it on the Kenbunshoku Haki page as being able to sense and empathize with an opponent's emotions and intentions and nothing else.

 

[PaChi2]

>Telepath

>They laughed at me when I said that haki worked similar to telepathy.

smh.

 

[CinCameron20]

@PaChi - they probably thought you were trying to say they could literally just read minds straight-up, but in a sense, they technically "can" lol.

Trial of Orbs scrub was reading into Luffy's feints and his intentions the entire fight.

 

[PaChi2]

Luffy cannot fight unconsciously.

The only time this happened is when he was already unconscious.

So..m

 

[CinCameron20]

@PaChi - we're putting that off for now xD. I'm trying to get Telepathy accepted since it's been shown several times.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Chapter was lit AF. Goda-Sama!

 

[KinkiestSins]

Telepathy, Extrasensory Perception, Precog

Oda lowkey ripping off the force.

 

[CinCameron20]

Telepathy is pretty much confirmed in Chapter 894. Luffy blatantly stated that he could sense Rayleigh's fury, and Rayleigh confirmed that was also part of Haki, and that Kenbunshoku allows the user to sense the personality of others as well.

UNLOCK THE PAGE >:O.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cin

The thing is that sounds more like Empathy the way Raven in DC Comics use it.

I suppose we could conflate the two, but I need to rewrite all the Powers and Abilities pages.

In any case, I've unlocked Luffy's page. Have fun.

 

[PaChi2]

>Have fun.

Repp's concept of fun is curious, indeed. ovo

 

[CinCameron20]

@Reppu - i meant the Haki page, but someone already did that. I only needed to apply changes to the Kenbunshoku Haki section.

We don't have an Empathy page, though? And it's not just empathizing. The user can technically mind-read an opponent's intentions and emotions this way.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Cin

Sorry about that then.

I've been asked to look through and rewrite the old Powers and Abilities pages, so I might lump in Empathy with telepathy.

The problem with your point is that according to your statement, Luffy sensed Rayleigh's fury and killing intent, but not necessarily reading their mind. This is the same thing in most Shonen shows when someone says, "I can feel an intense killing intent/energy from over there".

Unless he's actually reading their thoughts, I don't know if we should straight up give telepathy.