Minor Future Trunks Resistance Removal

[Magicomethkuon]

Very small adjustment, Future Trunks currently has resistance to Petrification. This is not true because he never resisted Dabura's saliva, instead deflecting the medium that would petrify with his ki before contact. Any petrification that Trunks can't see coming and deflect through the same means will work, or else he wouldn't have needed to avoid Dabura's at all costs.

Several characters in DB have put on display that one of the possible applications ki has is acting as barrier to deflect offensives or coat the user, which is not resisting. Resistance should be just changed to that.

Agree - 11 (8 users, 3 staff): @Oliver_de_jesus , @KingNanaya , @Hiryu-Z, @StrymULTRA , @LephyrTheRevanchist (Staff Vote) , @Adem_Warlock69 , @Nullflowerblush , @RedReaper, @Damage3245 (Staff Vote) , @SamanPatou (Staff Vote) , @Serlock_Holmes
Disagree - 2 (2 users): @pineappleman , @LuffyRuffy46307
Neutral:

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

yeah, the deflecting barrier do the thing, so this is fine

 

[KingNanaya]

Agree

 

[Magicomethkuon]

yeah, the deflecting barrier do the thing, so this is fine

Yeppers.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sure.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Bump.

 

[pineappleman]

I don't see any indication of ki in the clip where Trunks deflects Dabura's spit, seems to be doing it with his bare hands

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I don't see any indication of ki in the clip where Trunks deflects Dabura's spit, seems to be doing it with his bare hands

Both in the manga and the anime, Dabura's spit first hits Trunks's sword, and he drops it so it wouldn't spread to his body. In the anime, he mentions prior warnings from the Supreme Kai. In the manga, the Supreme Kai is there when it happens and hurriedly tells him to drop the sword.

In the anime, he mentions the warnings from him and is seen without the sword afterwards. A glow envelops his body and then each time the Dabura spits comes close there is also a golden glow like small splashes of ki on his palms, deflecting the spit.

It's pretty clear cut that he would be affected in both scenarios.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Are there other characters who scale from Trunks on this, given he's technically just a Saiyan?

 

[Magicomethkuon]

From what we saw with Androids in the future past, this Dabura situation and how the Trio de Danger's poison in the ToP was countered, I feel like anyone with sufficiently high ki control could pull this trick if necessary and aware of the danger + the technique being possible. But that is just my conjecture.

 

[pineappleman]

Both in the manga and the anime, Dabura's spit first hits Trunks's sword, and he drops it so it wouldn't spread to his body. In the anime, he mentions prior warnings from the Supreme Kai. In the manga, the Supreme Kai is there when it happens and hurriedly tells him to drop the sword.

In the anime, he mentions the warnings from him and is seen without the sword afterwards. A glow envelops his body and then each time the Dabura spits comes close there is also a golden glow like small splashes of ki on his palms, deflecting the spit.

It's pretty clear cut that he would be affected in both scenarios.

In the anime, he only glows as he transforms into Super Saiyan. There is no ki involved when he deflects Dabura's spit, you can see as much from the clip you linked
And those aren't splashes of ki, they're clearly impact flashes.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

In the anime, he only glows as he transforms into Super Saiyan. There is no ki involved when he deflects Dabura's spit, you can see as much from the clip you linked
And those aren't splashes of ki, they're clearly impact flashes.

No, the glow is there and plain to see in his hands every time. Dabura's spit never had glowing properties.

There was no need for this with the video link, but I put it on slow down on top of it and you can see there is always a ki deflection between his hand and the spit at every angle. Even after an individual spit is long past you can still see the ki dissipating. Furthermore there would be no need for any warnings or to let go of the sword or for deflection if Trunks could simply brute force its effects.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Well, I also disagree, I don't see Ki embedded in Trunks' palm when the Dabura throw saliva at him, If it were any barrier there would be energy surrounding the character and not being reflecting your attack.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Well, I also disagree, I don't see Ki embedded in Trunks' palm when the Dabura throw saliva at him, If it were any barrier there would be energy surrounding the character and not being reflecting your attack.

The images screenshotted and the video have a more than evident showing of ki on top of his palms and the saliva never making contact with his skin, being deflected by the glow instead. There's really nothing that can be argued here from visuals and context as provided.

 

[Huesito88]

From what we saw with Androids in the future past, this Dabura situation and how the Trio de Danger's poison in the ToP was countered, I feel like anyone with sufficiently high ki control could pull this trick if necessary and aware of the danger + the technique being possible. But that is just my conjecture.

I recall Vegeta did something similar with the "guy with Absolute Zero" in the Tournament and also Toppo's Hakai

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Agreed with OP

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The images screenshotted and the video have a more than evident showing of ki on top of his palms and the saliva never making contact with his skin, being deflected by the glow instead. There's really nothing that can be argued here from visuals and context as provided.

And even if there was some Ki built into Trunks' hand it would still give him resistance, because he is resisting with his energy and reflecting at the same time, I don't see how that takes anything away, ki is an energy to defend oneself and have resistance to various things, so if something was resisted was because of ki and that would still give resistance to DB characters, since Ki is a reach of your body and coming directly from it.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

And even if there was some Ki built into Trunks' hand it would still give him resistance, because he is resisting with his energy and reflecting at the same time, I don't see how that takes anything away, ki is an energy to defend oneself and have resistance to various things, so if something was resisted was because of ki and that would still give resistance to DB characters, since Ki is a reach of your body and coming directly from it.

No, not really. If a character say, deflects acid with a forcefield or barrier what is expected is that they needed it as means of protection. Not that they could have face tanked the corrosive effects even without it. This is just like that. Doesn't help DB's case that it has other examples which further support this. Context of this scene and the ToP for example with Lavender's Poison. There they used Ki as protection, because if the actual attack made skin contact, they would be affected.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Agree despite it meaning nothing

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Petrification is a Subset of Transmutation iirc so wouldn’t his ki still gain some type of resistance or does it not work like that? Since it should’ve turned to stone

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

No, not really. If a character say, deflects acid with a forcefield or barrier what is expected is that they needed it as means of protection. Not that they could have face tanked the corrosive effects even without it. This is just like that. Doesn't help DB's case that it has other examples which further support this. Context of this scene and the ToP for example with Lavender's Poison. There they used Ki as protection, because if the actual attack made skin contact, they would be affected.

In fact, it's not quite like that, in DB the characters use their energy to resist various abilities and this energy is part of being, now let's assume that you use as an example Shinigami who use their Reiatsu to resist an existential payment, you would be resisting this erasure because there are no other means without some energy (because the characters without this energy wouldn't just be nothing), basically it is the character's way of defending himself against energy, logically this would give such a character some resistance. Frieza, for example, is able to resist EE because of the increase in his Ki, this gave him resistance, what would be the logic of a character not having resistance just because he used his Ki? Even with all this, the merit would still be given to Ki because its property already demonstrates certain resistance.



To be more fair, it should be like this.

Certain characters resisted with their energy

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Petrification is a Subset of Transmutation iirc so wouldn’t his ki still gain some type of resistance or does it not work like that? Since it should’ve turned to stone

Yes, bro, there are characters here at vsbttles that use energy to contain certain abilities and it still counts as resistance, why wouldn't it be the same here?

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Agree despite it meaning nothing

Not at all, thank you for your time.

Petrification is a Subset of Transmutation iirc so wouldn’t his ki still gain some type of resistance or does it not work like that? Since it should’ve turned to stone

From one of my earlier replies: Furthermore there would be no need for any warnings or to let go of the sword or for deflection if Trunks could simply brute force its effects.

In this case it has been heavily implied (and really, shown, especially in the manga) that if it makes contact with him it will work. A claim that Trunks or anyone with ki would not be affected because they have ki on them would contradict what the scene and the context have shown. Ki can be used as a form of barrier to deflect Dabura's spit. But having ki does not grant resistance to it. Under one interpretation, these ki barriers resist petrification. Under another, Dabura's saliva simply can't petrify energy manipulation. From my experience with how the wiki works when in doubt, I believe the latter is what is taken in the absence of feats.

Either way it doesn't change that the resistance should be removed. If simply being a good enough ki user were grounds to not be affected, Gohan wouldn't have thrown out his glove like his life depended on it the moment his spit hit, Goku and Vegeta wouldn't need to look out for it because they'd curbstomp Dabura, literal Majin Boo who fodderized Dabura and had regen wouldn't have dodged, Future Trunks would not need to drop his sword, have a warning or deflect with ki, so on so forth.

In fact, it's not quite like that, in DB the characters use their energy to resist various abilities and this energy is part of being, now let's assume that you use as an example Shinigami who use their Reiatsu to resist an existential payment, you would be resisting this erasure because there are no other means without some energy (because the characters without this energy wouldn't just be nothing), basically it is the character's way of defending himself against energy, logically this would give such a character some resistance. Frieza, for example, is able to resist EE because of the increase in his Ki, this gave him resistance, what would be the logic of a character not having resistance just because he used his Ki? Even with all this, the merit would still be given to Ki because its property already demonstrates certain resistance.



To be more fair, it should be like this.

Bringing up other series whilst ignoring the context of the series this is all about would constitute a logical leap. Every time, they needed to use the ki as a sort of shield for contact with the hax's medium not to happen. Frieza's case is a false equivalency, on his end we clearly see the Hakai connect and then he resists its effects on his body. Dabura's stone spit was never face tanked. Not giving characters resistance to an attack that they are avoiding through a variety of means is common sense. Ki can simply deflect Dabura's saliva.

The screenshot that you have taken supports the case. It's another episode of them using ki as a barrier because, if the attack in question made contact with them, they'd suffer the effects of it.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I was going to say that I, for once, agree with LuffyRuffy and Pineappleman, but then, I regained control over my mind.

As the name suggests,

Resistance is the power to withstand the effects of certain abilities through varying means. The highest degree of resistance is outright Immunity, supposedly making the user in question completely unaffected by such abilities.

In this instance, Future Trunks is not withstanding anything, he is deflecting the Stone Spit via whatever "special instructions" the Supreme Kai passed on before disappearing from the story, thus avoiding its effects entirely.

 

[RedReaper616]

No, not really. If a character say, deflects acid with a forcefield or barrier what is expected is that they needed it as means of protection. Not that they could have face tanked the corrosive effects even without it. This is just like that. Doesn't help DB's case that it has other examples which further support this. Context of this scene and the ToP for example with Lavender's Poison. There they used Ki as protection, because if the actual attack made skin contact, they would be affected.

I agree with the thread, but I think Lavender is a poor example since he can explicitly grant his Ki Poisonous effects on top of just the standard poison smoke, and that energy hitting your body protected by your own energy (via normal means) won't stop it. Such as the move Venomous Sniper. So even though they were using their forcefield made of energy to take the poison, his energy is also poisonous itself and them using their refined barriers being able to cancel it (as seen in the ToP) rather than the normal heightened Ki Defenses/Barrier that is used multiple times throughout the series to nullify another's energy attack either through tanking or just being so much stronger your aura gets rid of it/stopping it entirely/your energy literally preventing contact/etc. (presumably used by Gohan in the Expo, otherwise how was he fighting?), indicates-At least to me-That it's not quite the same thing. If that makes sense.

Though, admittedly that's my personal interpretation and a tad nitpicky.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I agree with the thread, but I think Lavender is a poor example since he can explicitly grant his Ki Poisonous effects on top of just the standard poison smoke, and that energy hitting your body protected by your own energy (via normal means) won't stop it. Such as the move Venomous Sniper. So even though they were using their forcefield made of energy to take the poison, his energy is also poisonous itself and them using their refined barriers being able to cancel it (as seen in the ToP) rather than the normal heightened Ki Defenses/Barrier that is used multiple times throughout the series to nullify another's energy attack either through tanking or just being so much stronger your aura gets rid of it/stopping it entirely/your energy literally preventing contact/etc. (presumably used by Gohan in the Expo, otherwise how was he fighting?), indicates-At least to me-That it's not quite the same thing. If that makes sense.

Though, admittedly that's my personal interpretation and a tad nitpicky.

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm not sure if I understood it all but if I did, it doesn't look like we disagree on anything. This deflecting property if we can call it that, is a possible application of ki, and yes it is different from the base glowing aura that is seen when powering up. It's also unlike “passive ki byproducts” of gaining better statistics and such. More like a technique that they must put at least the conscious effort of activating if they know how to utilize it.

 

[RedReaper616]

Thank you for your thoughts. I'm not sure if I understood it all but if I did, it doesn't look like we disagree on anything. This deflecting property if we can call it that, is a possible application of ki, and yes it is different from the base glowing aura that is seen when powering up. It's also unlike “passive ki byproducts” of gaining better statistics and such. More like a technique that they must put at least the conscious effort of activating if they know how to utilize it.

Yeah I agree with you.

I was just saying that I think your example with Lavender specifically seems a tad off to me because Lavender is able to make his Ki Poisonous and affect you that way. Kinda like Cumber’s Berserk-Inducing Ki, except Poison, so whilst Trunks is deflecting here, I don’t think it’s quite the same as the refined Ki Barrier they use in the ToP/can’t be compared to it. If that makes sense.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Yeah I agree with you.

I was just saying that I think your example with Lavender specifically seems a tad off to me because Lavender is able to make his Ki Poisonous and affect you that way. Kinda like Cumber’s Berserk-Inducing Ki, except Poison, so whilst Trunks is deflecting here, I don’t think it’s quite the same as the refined Ki Barrier they use in the ToP/can’t be compared to it. If that makes sense.

Wanted to emphasize how ki can be used in certain ways to deflect or block, it is why I mentioned the Androids as well, 17 a good example of specialization in barriers. But I understand how it could come across as saying that all their techniques are the exact same. Apologies for the confusion.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

First bump of forgot this wasn't applied.

 

[Vietthai96]

First bump of forgot this wasn't applied.

You need 1 more staff agreement at least, the minimum requirement for all CRT is at least 2 staffs agreement, even for an extremely minor one

 

[GarrixianXD]

DB character's resistance really comes from ki resistance. Trunk's sword wasn't affected since it was amplified by his ki. I disagree with this.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

DB character's resistance really comes from ki resistance. Trunk's sword wasn't affected since it was amplified by his ki. I disagree with this.

The sword was petrified in the manga and the anime, though. I posted links for each version of the fight in replies above. The only thing that Trunks ever did was deflect the spit without letting it make contact with him via ki. I have already listed multiple examples of characters stronger and with much better ki control than Dabura still dodging or avoiding the spit. In the manga, Shin also yells that Trunks will turn to stone if he doesn't let go of the sword.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

You need 1 more staff agreement at least, the minimum requirement for all CRT is at least 2 staffs agreement, even for an extremely minor one

Unless it's self evident, which can actually pass with 1 agreement.

However, this being DB, a controversial verse (not just for their statistics, but also their resistances and how the verse portray em), it can't be resolved with just one agreement.

 

[Damage3245]

OP seems fine to me.

 

[SamanPatou]

I also agree, what even is the point of deflecting the spit if it just doesn't work?

 

[Vietthai96]

Still i think it a noteworthy feat that we can write in Ki Manipulation description that Ki can deflect stone spit

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah it should be reflected in the ki profile page that it can coat the users body to avoid harmful substances on skin and other hax that apply on skin. As for the purpose of the thread I agree.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Seems like there's enough support to apply it now. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Seems like there's enough support to apply it now. Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

Will be closing this then