Mini Bayonetta Verse Upgrades

[Dienomite22]

The eyes are in there, same for the scaling. I did miss the Rodin thing though, however BayonettaMinaj commented on it right after.

Their first paragraph.
Anyways for convenience sake:
We’ve been comparing father Rodin to weakened jubileus, due to their halos being the same. Angels within the same rank are similar in power, and that’s how we scale them.

I'm not getting how you are saying Omne has the EotW when they were explicitly destroyed moments before. Blue and Red color scheme doesn't stop with the eyes of the world. Lumen Sages and Witches' main colors are blue and red as well so it's a given Omne would have blue and red eyes when Bayonetta and Balder summon her.

 

[Comicgyal]

Is that all you have saying that Rodin is > Sheba? Because that seems a bit circumstantial.

The "most dangerous" is not necessarily the same as "most powerful".

There is also this quote I saw earlier:

“When the cosmos was split into light, darkness, and the chaos in-between, the incredibly powerful Sheba was born alongside the darkness controlling the world of Inferno. She lives in the hellish land, and is often classified as a demon; however, the full details of her existence are unknown”

This quote implies that despite being classified as a demon by others usually, the make-up of her actual existence is different and could be something more entirely. So even if you were to take the most dangerous as an indication of strength, it very likely seems to not include Sheba in that description.

So I don't think that what you have shown is sufficient evidence for a definitive tier change, at most a "possibly" rating, but even then, that is a little iffy.


Also, question, but why is Base Bayonetta from 2 stronger than 1? Is there a statement or something saying this?


I don't really have enough context based to discuss the Omne stuff, so I won't say anything about that.

The quote seems to imply in my opinion, that Rodin > Queen Sheba in that regard. Along with how Rodin is treated in lore.

Father Rodin was arguably (definitely) the strongest being in Paradiso, to which he earned the title “The infinite one” After being cast out of paradiso due to his power, Rodin took refuge in inferno and well you know the rest.

I don’t think the title of “Demon” matters in this regard, because Rodin isn’t a “Demon” either. He’s a fallen angel, he has a halo, so realistically the comparison wouldn’t make sense at all if you just exclude Queen Sheba. Though I do realize it isn’t too sound, Rodin already has his tiering, so this is just for Bayonetta and Balder.

Bayonetta would be stronger than her bayo 1 version, if you believe Demon Rodin > Angel Rodin, via the scaling to Queen Sheba. His angel form is only 3-A due to scaling from weakened Jubileus, but his demon form is possibly 2-C because of Jubileus being 2-C.

 

[Comicgyal]

I'm not getting how you are saying Omne has the EotW when they were explicitly destroyed moments before. Blue and Red color scheme doesn't stop with the eyes of the world. Lumen Sages and Witches' main colors are blue and red as well so it's a given Omne would have blue and red eyes when Bayonetta and Balder summon her.

Balder in Bayonetta 1 having the right eye, despite it being “destroyed” is what leads me to believe that isn’t the case. I believe the eyes were returned to their respective overseers, I mean how else would it make sense?

In the beginning of Bayo 2, we’re told the world is experiencing disasters because the right eye is gone. Now both eyes are gone, and the disasters have suddenly stopped. Referencing Loki’s quote of “The world will create its own path” is a good argument, but at the same time if the game showed that one eye being gone is a big deal, why would the world suddenly not suffer the same fate after both eyes have been erased?

 

[Dienomite22]

The Hierarchy of Laguna is what we use to scale all of the Angels in both games anyway so I don’t see how any of you find it unreliable now. Rodin is the only other Dea-Ranked angel that we know of other than Jubileus. And given his roles in Paradiso, his abilities, and the scale of his legend & the weapons he’s created he should be somewhat comparable.

And I don’t understand why Bayonetta wouldn’t scale to him considering the fact that he gets ****** up by every demon he puts in her weaponry,(with exceptions like SF & Alruna.)

Regardless of who made the EotW (I don’t even remember anything saying Jubileus created the EotW), Jubileus still needed them to regain her full power therefore Aesir should be comparable to Her full power. Queen Sheba was born from all of the divine power that Jubileus lost so she should be comparable too. Plus the lore says that Rodin is the strongest “DEMON” in Inferno QS isn’t a demon.

The Hierarchy of Laguna also shows that even within the same sphere there are more hierarchies with angels stronger than the others and not to mention excel at different aspects such as speed, attack, durability, combat etc. Nobody is saying it's unreliable, I'm questioning why Rodin would scale for simply being in the same sphere when power can vastly differ even within the same sphere and his descriptions don't necessarily mean he is stronger than her or the god tiers?

 

[Warren_Valion]

The quote seems to imply in my opinion, that Rodin > Queen Sheba in that regard. Along with how Rodin is treated in lore.

Father Rodin was arguably (definitely) the strongest being in Paradiso, to which he earned the title “The infinite one” After being cast out of paradiso due to his power, Rodin took refuge in inferno and well you know the rest.

I don’t think the title of “Demon” matters in this regard, because Rodin isn’t a “Demon” either. He’s a fallen angel, he has a halo, so realistically the comparison wouldn’t make sense at all if you just exclude Queen Sheba. Though I do realize it isn’t too sound, Rodin already has his tiering, so this is just for Bayonetta and Balder.

Bayonetta would be stronger than her bayo 1 version, if you believe Demon Rodin > Angel Rodin, via the scaling to Queen Sheba. His angel form is only 3-A due to scaling from weakened Jubileus, but his demon form is possibly 2-C because of Jubileus being 2-C.

Wait, what? Am I looking at this right?

You are trying to say that Base Bayo is stronger than Demon Rodin AND that Rodin is stronger than Sheba who is comparable to a weakened Jubelius?

Ah, isn't this scaling circular? Now, it has been a long time since I played Bayo 1 and 2, but didn't Bayo only beat Jubie with Sheba + Left Eye?

 

[Comicgyal]

The Hierarchy of Laguna also shows that even within the same sphere there are more hierarchies with angels stronger than the others and not to mention excel at different aspects such as speed, attack, durability, combat etc. Nobody is saying it's unreliable, I'm questioning why Rodin would scale for simply being in the same sphere when power can vastly differ even within the same sphere and his descriptions don't necessarily mean he is stronger than her or the god tiers?

Angels take on different forms that’s true, however they’re usually in the same ballpark. Halos are a mass of spirit energy, and spirit energy in Bayonetta = Power. That’s why there’s a hierarchy to begin with. Rodin is the only other angel with the same halo, meaning his innate spirit energy / power is in the same ballpark as jubileus. He doesn’t scale above jubileus, it’s only being debated if he scales above queen Sheba.

 

[Dienomite22]

Balder in Bayonetta 1 having the right eye, despite it being “destroyed” is what leads me to believe that isn’t the case. I believe the eyes were returned to their respective overseers, I mean how else would it make sense?

In the beginning of Bayo 2, we’re told the world is experiencing disasters because the right eye is gone. Now both eyes are gone, and the disasters have suddenly stopped. Referencing Loki’s quote of “The world will create its own path” is a good argument, but at the same time if the game showed that one eye being gone is a big deal, why would the world suddenly not suffer the same fate after both eyes have been erased?

Because Loki states he erased the eyes of the world using his half of Aesir's power? Bayonetta 1 having the eyes is simply means nothing besides a poor attempt to connect Bayo 1 and 2.

The destruction of one eye leads to unbalance while the destruction of both fixes the balance.

 

[Comicgyal]

Wait, what? Am I looking at this right?

You are trying to say that Base Bayo is stronger than Demon Rodin AND that Rodin is stronger than Sheba who is comparable to a weakened Jubelius?

Ah, isn't this scaling circular? Now, it has been a long time since I played Bayo 1 and 2, but didn't Bayo only beat Jubie with Sheba + Left Eye?

Yes, in the game Bayonetta beats demon Rodin brutally, and it’s canon. The quote implies Rodin > Queen Sheba, so Bayonetta > Queen Sheba or at the very least comparable to her if you don’t want to accept it.

it is circular, however from what everyone has been arguing it isn’t as “circular” as the game makes it out to be. Personally I believe all the god tiers scale, it’s very obvious that’s the implications.. each one takes over one of their respective realms, they keep the balance. One cannot be stronger than the other, or else the balance will topple over itself. So for someone to say Queen Sheba is massively weaker than the other God tiers, is to ignore the reason why she controls inferno in the first place.

Reminder the whole reason they wanted to revive Jubileus, was so that Paradiso could rule all of the other realms. So this balance is very real.

 

[Dienomite22]

Angels take on different forms that’s true, however they’re usually in the same ballpark. Halos are a mass of spirit energy, and spirit energy in Bayonetta = Power. That’s why there’s a hierarchy to begin with. Rodin is the only other angel with the same halo, meaning his innate spirit energy / power is in the same ballpark as jubileus. He doesn’t scale above jubileus, it’s only being debated if he scales above queen Sheba.

The currency Halos are spiritual metal containing the essence of an angel's lifeforce. the currency Halo is not the sphere Halos, which are not physical and are not stated to mean power.

 

[Theglassman12]

You just admit it’s circular scaling, you can't use circular scaling for this because it falls on it's face. Honestly the more this discussion continues the more convinced I am that Rodin scaling to the gods is really iffy.

 

[Comicgyal]

The currency Halos are spiritual metal containing the essence of an angel's lifeforce. the currency Halo is not the sphere Halos, which are not physical and are not stated to mean power.

??? You realize that the currency halo, and the spheres are the same thing right? When you kill an angel it drops its halo, this is stated plenty of times in the lore. Did you think the angels were like Mario enemies, and killing them dropped some currency like coins?

You just admit it’s circular scaling, you can't use circular scaling for this because it falls on it's face. Honestly the more this discussion continues the more convinced I am that Rodin scaling to the gods is really iffy.

you realize Rodin isn’t included in this either? The god tiers share the balance, and therefore are on the same tiering. Rodin does not rule a realm, he is not an overseer of inferno, paradiso, or chaos, he can be stronger than Queen Sheba without disrupting the balance.

 

[Dienomite22]

??? You realize that the currency halo, and the spheres are the same thing right? When you kill an angel it drops its halo, this is stated plenty of times in the lore. Did you think the angels were like Mario enemies, and killing them dropped some currency like coins?

Proof that this is stated plenty of times in lore? The halos don't look the same and one is not physical.

 

[Comicgyal]

Proof that this is stated plenty of times in lore? The halos don't look the same and one is not physical.

ok

 

[Theglassman12]

Warren literally questioned you scaling Bayonetta to Rodin who scales to the goddesses. And you responded by saying it is circular scaling. That does include Rodin.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

The "most dangerous" is not necessarily the same as "most powerful".

I do have to agree with this sentiment. A Black Lamba will never beat a lion in physical strength, but it’s poison evens the odds.

 

[Comicgyal]

Warren literally questioned you scaling Bayonetta to Rodin who scales to the goddesses. And you responded by saying it is circular scaling. That does include Rodin.

Rodin scales to their power, due to him being said to be the most dangerous demon in inferno, and him scaling to jubileus. This has nothing to do with the balance of the three realms.

The circular scaling goes for jubileus, queen Sheba, Aesir. Three gods who control three realms, each realm maintains balance and can’t be above the other. Rodin is not included in this, since he doesn’t control a realm. So him scaling above Queen Sheba contradicts nothing.

 

[Dienomite22]

ok

Thank you, but this still doesn't mean Rodin scales to Jubileus within the hierarchy itself.

 

[Comicgyal]

Thank you, but this still doesn't mean Rodin scales to Jubileus within the hierarchy itself.

You’re convincing me that you’re not paying attention to what we’ve been arguing, nor do you have any knowledge on how the hierarchy works.

Angels within the same hierarchy scale to each other, third sphere angels are fodder compared to second spheres, and so on. Angels in the first sphere are above second spheres, this is proven within the lore. Auditios are above first spheres, some are regarded as gods right hands directly or something like that. The dea rank is the name of Jubileus rank, The infinite one is the name of Rodins rank. Both of them have the same halo, meaning that they are comparable to one another. If you don’t get that, then I’m not sure how else to explain it.

 

[Theglassman12]

Warren already addressed that point, being dangerous doesn't mean powerful. A rabid dog is more dangerous than a sane person with a gun, that doesn't mean the dog wins every time in a fight.

No him scaling to Queen Sheba does contradict since Bayonetta at base would have to be stronger than the gods despite losing to one when he was nerfed and needed the Left eye to matched another Goddess.

 

[Comicgyal]

And I unde

Warren already addressed that point, being dangerous doesn't mean powerful. A rabid dog is more dangerous than a sane person with a gun, that doesn't mean the dog wins every time in a fight.

No him scaling to Queen Sheba does contradict since Bayonetta at base would have to be stronger than the gods despite losing to one when he was nerfed and needed the Left eye to matched another Goddess.

r

Warren already addressed that point, being dangerous doesn't mean powerful. A rabid dog is more dangerous than a sane person with a gun, that doesn't mean the dog wins every time in a fight.

No him scaling to Queen Sheba does contradict since Bayonetta at base would have to be stronger than the gods despite losing to one when he was nerfed and needed the Left eye to matched another Goddess.

And I understand that, so it’s a hit or miss, but frankly I still think Rodin scales. Especially with how he’s been treated in lore.

Bayonetta at base would be possibly comparable or above Queen Sheba, we’ve already went over Bayonettas various fights with Aesir, and how they weren’t stomps / included dumb moments to move the plot along. Such as Bayonetta literally standing there as Aesir shot a beam towards her. Bayonetta was forced into her left eye, so that point is whatever.

If the scaling for Rodin to Sheba is iffy, that’s fine. We can stick to Bayonettas base being 3-A due to father Rodin, however Queen Shebas scaling to the other gods is undeniable.

 

[Theglassman12]

Bayonetta at base being comparable to Queen Sheba makes no sense. Why would she be comparable to her when she needed the left eye to beat Jubileus?

Also no you guys only addressed the speed thing, scaling to Aesir AP wise was debunked and agreed upon not that long ago. So again, she does not scale to Aesir unless the next game retcons all of that too.

Also can you explain why the infinite one and Dea are remotely comparable to begin with? I don't think you've ever explained where it's stated they're on the same level.

 

[Dienomite22]

You’re convincing me that you’re not paying attention to what we’ve been arguing, nor do you have any knowledge on how the hierarchy works.

Angels within the same hierarchy scale to each other, third sphere angels are fodder compared to second spheres, and so on. Angels in the first sphere are above second spheres, this is proven within the lore. Auditios are above first spheres, some are regarded as gods right hands directly or something like that. The dea rank is the name of Jubileus rank, The infinite one is the name of Rodins rank. Both of them have the same halo, meaning that they are comparable to one another. If you don’t get that, then I’m not sure how else to explain it.

Angels within the hierarchy scale to each other according to the VBW, not the game but I digress. You acknowledged the hierarchies within the hierarchies and how those angels excel at certain aspects over other angels and how power can differ greatly within the same sphere. You should be able to see why Rodin being in the same sphere doesn't mean much or is enough to prove he scales to her.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I'm not here to debate, just give my thoughts and from what I have seen, Glass is making more sense here.

With that, I am dipping from this thread.

 

[Comicgyal]

Angels within the hierarchy scale to each other according to the VBW, not the game but I digress. You acknowledged the hierarchies within the hierarchies and how those angels excel at certain aspects over other angels and how power can differ greatly within the same sphere. You should be able to see why Rodin being in the same sphere doesn't mean much or is enough to prove he scales to her.

They have different hax and abilities, however that doesn’t mean one first sphere angel is vastly stronger than the other. They’re all comparable because they’re all in the same sphere, the same goes for Rodin and Jubileus.

 

[Comicgyal]

See ya

I'm not here to debate, just give my thoughts and from what I have seen, Glass is making more sense here.

With that, I am dipping from this thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I pretty much lost what's going on here.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Scaling.

 

[Comicgyal]

A TL;DR of the more important discussions
Rodin scaling to Sheba based off him being the most “dangerous demon in inferno” was brought up. A back and forth over that, a few disagree, some think it’s fine.

Rodin scaling to Jubileus was brought up, I explained why it happens a bit in depth. Dienomite still doesn’t agree.

Taking away Sheba’s scaling I believe is pretty much debunked, from the scan I showed about keeping the balance for each realm. Though I suppose Glass is still on the fence.

Aside from that..,we’re pretty much back to square one. 3-A base Bayonetta and Balder seems like a safe choice, while keeping the previous scaling IMO.

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

Is everyone on board with Aesir & Full Power Jubileus being on the same level? Because Queen Sheba & Aesir were both born from Jubileus’s tremendous loss of power and the birth of the Trinity of Realities.

 

[Comicgyal]

Yes, those two have the same scaling

 

[BayonettaxMinaj]

Then it makes sense why Queen Sheba would be up there too. The Trinity of Realities are 3-(Well technically 4) parts of the same whole, and the same can be said for the deities that rule each realm. Jubileus, Aesir, & Queen Sheba are all 3 parts of the same god. The EotW could get Jubileus back to full strength but they were originally created by Aesir. If he can achieve that level of power on his own despite being a third of the Divine Will, then it makes sense, in context, that Sheba can as well.

Omne was an amalgam of Paradiso & Inferno-(The realms themselves rather than the Eyes) & the EotW are powerful, no one’s disputing that, but they’re not individually stronger than 2 realms (and all their powers) combined. So it makes sense that Omne was stronger than Aesir, whether he had the eyes or not.

 

[Dienomite22]

I will make my last comment on this CRT.

No one is disputing that Queen Sheba is comparable to Jubileus and I personally believe Omne is comparable to the god tiers though its brief appearance doesn't really prove my belief as Omne only kicks a nerfed Aesir. The issue is Rodin being apparently comparable to Jubileus or Queen Sheba and Bayonetta 1 without the eye being stronger than Rodin which would make her, Bayo 1 Balder and Jeanne Jubileus level without the eye. Rodin is being said to be comparable to Jubileus and Queen Sheba because his descriptions and his Angel halo being the same as Jubileus, meaning they are the same Sphere within the Paradiso Hierarchy.

Spoiler: Rodin's Hierarchy of Laguna Description

"An incredibly powerful angel once charged with governing a portion of Paradiso. Immortal, he has seen the passing of countless generations in Paradiso, surviving them all, and earning the awe-inspiring title of Infinite One.

It is said he turned his back on the heavens and fought an insurgency against Paradiso. Upon ultimately losing the battle, he was exiled to Inferno. However, there are others that say the rulers of Paradiso feared his power and ensnared him in a trap that led to his exile. During his time in paradise, the angel Rodin was charged with the task of creation, responding to Divine Will with various masterpieces.

He was known as a genius smith, renowned for his weapons and armor. The stories of grossly outnumbered troops using his weapons to eviscerate demonic forces are too numerous to tell. After being forced from Paradiso, it is said the newly condemned demon tired of the chaotic battles that rage endlessly in Inferno and disappeared from the Infernal realm. No one knows of his whereabouts since."

Spoiler: Rodin's Lemegeton's Book Description

"An immortal man feared as the most dangerous demon in the entire barren wasteland of Inferno. Freely traveling between the human world and Inferno, it is nearly impossible to guess his location at any given time. His sudden visits to Inferno are said to be for hunting its savage, ruthless demons and taking their souls.

It is rumored he was once a resident of Paradiso with the power of creation, but witnessing his acts in Inferno, most would think him more suited for destruction. Though his principle purpose for collecting the souls of Inferno's denizens is to use them in making his weapons, he himself is never seen sporting anything but other than his bare fists: true testament to their unbridled power.

As the famed weaponsmith of Inferno, he destroys to create, then creates to destroy. His true objective is still a mystery, though perhaps he is waiting for someone to appear who will finally have the power to undo him.

"Damn, been a long time since I had a workout like that. You come back soon, dig? I'll be here...Waiting. Again." - Rodin, The Gates of Hell"

My issues with Rodin scaling to Jubileus and Queen Sheba doesn't start with the circular scaling and implications it already brings but the lack of info the descriptions themselves actually give us when it comes to his power related to beings such as Jubileus and Queen Sheba. The Hierarchy of Laguna says Rodin is strong enough to govern a portion of Paradiso and implies that the rulers of Paradiso fear his power. Take note of the word "rulers", the description isn't saying THE ruler (meaning Jubileus) fears his power. Jubileus was put into an eternal sleep after the Trinity of Realities split and thus is not actually a ruler of Paradiso but instead is more of an "embodiment" that "maintains" it. Rodin governing a portion of Paradiso makes it clear that he could also be considered a "ruler" of Paradiso at one point and that Paradiso has multiple rulers who are naturally not on the level of Jubileus. This leads me to believe this description is not referring to Jubileus when speaking about "rulers" fearing him and if it were, that Jubileus would the one that is eternally asleep and has no eyes of the world, unlike the one who had 1 eye and performed the universe feat at the end of Bayonetta 1, meaning that Jubileus's power would be questionable and the kind of "fear" Jubileus felt towards Rodin wouldn't be from his power in comparison to her but his power compared to the other rulers and Rodin's potential to take over Paradiso while she is asleep. The Hierarchy of Laguna description brings no evidence to scale Rodin to Jubileus or Queen Sheba.

Rodin's Lemegeton's description also has a similar issue except this description is less confusing. Rodin being feared as the most dangerous demon doesn't necessarily mean his strength is comparable to Queen Sheba or Jubileus. For one, Queen Sheba is implied to not be a demon at all so she is not included in the statement, and being "feared as the most dangerous" doesn't mean anything when determining tier or scaling. Being feared as the "most dangerous" can mean many things. This description doesn't say anything concrete enough to determine why Rodin's should scale to Jubileus or Queen Sheba.

And now, for the Halo. I have already stated my view on Halos being the same = comparable power but I'll briefly explain it again. Halos are made of the essence of an angel's lifeforce. The position that an angel holds within the angelic hierarchy is determine by the Halo they have. Ranking from lowest to highest sphere goes Third Sphere, Second Sphere, First Sphere, Audito, and Dea. However, within the spheres, more rankings can exist as can larger power differences within the same sphere does as well. Halos also look different and become more grand looking with the lamest looking being in the Third Sphere and the Dea being the coolest. Rodin and Jublieus both have the Dea halo meaning they are within the same sphere, but they are not in the same ranking. I will acknowledge that between Spheres, larger power differences exist and that the Spheres do determine the power of a being to an extent, however, I also acknowledge that rankings exist within the same Spheres and thus spheres can have their own power differences as well. The Spheres and rankings are not inherently based on power to began with, it's just that naturally the higher the Sphere the angel is in, the stronger they will turn out (except with Resplendence). Each of the angels within the Spheres and ranking is their own aspect of Paradiso that does its own job, excels at in its own area whether it's destruction, evasion, travel, transferring, time, size, abilities etc. I just don't see how having the same Halo means that Rodin is comparable in power to Jublieus.

Add in the scaling issues and logical faults that come with Rodin's scaling to Jubileus that was already mentioned above, I can't say I agree with it. Also, Bayonetta 2 Bayo without the eyes being easily dealt with by an incomplete Loptr without eyes, when Bayonetta (and Balder) are apparently stronger than Bayo 1 Jubileus throws this not just a wrench into this Rodin = Jubileus notion, but completely exposes just how ridiculous the scaling and implications the argument are.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No, Rodin is bing stated as scaring Jubileus because his lore as an angel outright says that Jubileus feared him

 

[Dienomite22]

No, Rodin is bing stated as scaring Jubileus because his lore as an angel outright says that Jubileus feared him

Weekly, I posted his "lore as an angel" and it doesn't say that. I even made an argument on what that means even if it did say Jubileus feared him.

 

[Theglassman12]

Honestly given how Jubileus was asleep back in the beginning of the creation of it all, and Rulers could easily be referred to as the cardinals of virtue since they were leading the angels in the first game, I don't see a reason as to why that would imply Jubileus as well.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Honestly given how Jubileus was asleep back in the beginning of the creation of it all, and Rulers could easily be referred to as the cardinals of virtue since they were leading the angels in the first game, I don't see a reason as to why that would imply Jubileus as well.

Except it names jubileus outright

 

[Theglassman12]

No it doesn’t, where does it say jubileus? Dienomite flat out explained that it doesn’t name jubileus

 

[Comicgyal]

Halos are relative to strength, or else there wouldn’t be a hierarchy in the first place. Saying “Rodin and Jublieus both have the Dea halo meaning they are within the same sphere, but they are not in the same ranking.” Is redundant, and applies to weaker angels.

In the auditio sphere there is no “ranking” they are simply the strongest members. The only other members of auditio are their weaker reincarnations, but those don’t count. In the dea sphere there is no “ranking” either, it’s just Jubileus and Father Rodin. There’s no ranking because their power are similar, not much is setting them apart from each other. Which is why Temperantia isn’t in a higher “ranking” than Lustitia, despite them both governing over separate elements. Because there’s not a ranking inside of their sphere, you can assume that they’re all truly comparable to each other. The same goes for Jubileus and Rodin.

 

[Theglassman12]

That still leads to circular scaling, which shouldn't happen due to the massive holes in the logic. Anyways I propose Rodin at best would scale above the cardinal virtues and downgrade his angel and demon form to High 6-A since the scaling for them is questionable at best.

 

[Comicgyal]

Disagree, circular scaling isn’t a problem due to how tight it is (literally between 3/4 gods) and it has no holes in logic at all.