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Minecraft Low 7-C Downgrade

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joshpiece said:
Once again likely a game mechanic since the iron bars are literally protecting the things that heal the ******* ender dragon are you saying it should destroy those and make it easier for the player to kill it?

Can we stop using dumb game mechanics to further the downgrade even more? I think scaling the player with equipment , Ender dragon and the wither all to the same tier at 8-B seems reasonable
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Dumb game mechanics are the only reason why The Ender Dragon has 8-B AP, through deleting netherite blocks and similar.

8-C Ender Dragon is the only way.
 
KieranH10 said:
Aight, then just make the durability 8-B.
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Hold on, this isn't too unreasonable. In Minecraft you mostly use sharp weapons, right? It's unconventional but it isn't impossible that Steve is 8-C and is hurting the 8-B Ender Dragon through chip damage and piercing damage, right?
 
I wanna point out, we, the wiki, have a prefix for situations like this.
"At most ______ level".

Just slap that in front of the thing's durability.
 
KieranH10 said:
The dragon survives the blast, the "half health" point doesn't take into account his overall resistance to damage in-game afaik so he'd likely be in a better state than half health tbh.
Click to expand...
The Ender Dragon actually takes 1/4 damage ingame.
 
Chariot190 said:
I wanna point out, we, the wiki, have a prefix for situations like this.
"At most ______ level".

Just slap that in front of the thing's durability.
Click to expand...
8-C, possibly 8-B is the highest I'd be willing to go. 8-C through upscaling from Ghast Fireballs - and we can scale normal mobs to degrees of 8-C and 9-A.
 
The players damage to the Ender Dragon could potentially fall under chip damage anyways right?

We know that the players damage is less than that of the charged creepers, but that the dragon is capable on tanking charged creeper blasts.

So Ender Dragon dura > Charged creeper (8-B) > player damage

Simply downgrading the player to 8-C or whatever keeps the scaling consistent.
 
Moritzva said:
That being said, if you make The Ender Dragon's durability 8-B, then we're scaling The Player's attacks to Charged Creeper Explosions as The Player is able to hurt it.
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The Ender Dragon can have 8-B Durability without scaling to The Player if The Player's attacks against The Ender Dragon are chip damage
 
I believe the scaling should be such:
Ender Dragon (8-C with 8-B dura)
Charged Creepers (8-B, 8-C dura)
The player (8-C, whatever dura they get)
Regular mobs (whatever they were before their last upgrade)
 
8-C to 8-B isn't exactly a small jump.
 
KieranH10 said:
The players damage to the Ender Dragon could potentially fall under chip damage anyways right?

We know that the players damage is less than that of the charged creepers, but that the dragon is capable on tanking charged creeper blasts.

So Ender Dragon dura > Charged creeper (8-B) > player damage

Simply downgrading the player to 8-C or whatever keeps the scaling consistent.
Click to expand...
If you can argue and convince people that The Player should be 8-C, then I am potentially okay with this.

In my eyes, an ideal Minecraft scales to Ghast Explosions - regular mobs, by the way.

If we go by this logic for 8-B Ender Dragon Durability, we can scale normal mobs to 8-C through Ghast Explosions (Ghasts are normal mobs, albeit on the stronger side, so surely we should have little qualms with scaling mobs who can survive their hits if we're doing it with The Ender Dragon). Plus, most mobs can tank Steve's attacks relatively well, so they'd be 8-C in Durability, and can hurt each other, so they'd be 8-C in AP.

So, 9-A for the mobs that are already 9-A, 8-C for all the mobs currently 8-B (including The Ender Dragon and other bosses' AP), in vague terms. I'd have to look through all mobs for a concise and detailed analysis.

In which case, the point of contention is "Do we give The Ender Dragon 8-B Durability or 8-C Durability?"

Is that a fair axis from which we can debate?
 
Since this thread is messy and has shifted directions a lot, I'll clarify:

My current proposal, in detail, is,

Mobs that are 9-A currently will stay 9-A.

Mobs that are 8-B will become 8-C in Durability through surviving Steve/Ghast attacks, and since they can damage each other, will have 8-C AP as well.

Boss Mobs have 8-C AP for the same reason.

Durability is to be debated - do we want bosses to have 8-B or 8-C Durability? I personally prefer 8-C, but we can leave it to a vote.
 
Moritzva said:
Since this thread is messy and has shifted directions a lot, I'll clarify:

My current proposal, in detail, is,

Mobs that are 9-A currently will stay 9-A.

Mobs that are 8-B will become 8-C in Durability through surviving Steve/Ghast attacks, and since they can damage each other, will have 8-C AP as well.

Boss Mobs have 8-C AP for the same reason.

Durability is to be debated - do we want bosses to have 8-B or 8-C Durability? I personally prefer 8-C, but we can leave it to a vote.
Click to expand...
I can accept either.
 
Somebody said earlier that they should downgrade the ender dragon, and I want to point out that the ender dragon canonically is able to one shot the player. Wait I mean Steve. Not The Player.
there’s at least two mobs that can harm the player without it being game mechanics, and that’s the Wither and the Ender Dragon.
 
I'm fine with Mori's suggestion.

In-game logic leads to 8-B durability for boss mobs due to Charged Creeper stuff. The gap for chip damage to traverse is pretty big, though.
 
Since we've already set the precedent that 9-A mobs can hurt Steve through chip damage it seems reasonable to allow for an 8-C Steve to do chip damage to an 8-C dura ender dragon, especially since Steve will generally do less damage through individual hits to an ED than a silverfish to Steve.
 
Moritzva said:
"Common sense" through using vague words to create a split in logic isn't different. The Ender Dragon doesn't scale to 8-B by any stretch of the imagination.

Funny how the tables have turned, you thought Minecraft being high-tiered was stupid, but now you're arguing for Minecraft being high-tiered!
Click to expand...
I want things to be right, Mori. Not low tiered. Smh.

I stand by ED being possibly 8-B. Wither and Super Creeper keep their 8-B super attacks. Player should also get possibly 8-B with peak gear.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
I want things to be right, Mori. Not low tiered. Smh.

I stand by ED being possibly 8-B. Wither and Super Creeper keep their 8-B super attacks. Player should also get possibly 8-B with peak gear.
Click to expand...
And I want it to be right as well. Hence, 8-C AP, and at most, 8-B Durability, for The Ender Dragon.
 
I mean basalt is a weird block to use in a calc in the first place.

By the way there were other calcs for the ender dragon’s ram which weren’t assuming vaporisation or using iron blocks which were High 8-C-8-B, though I’m personally against calculating its destruction of anything outside of end stone since that’s the least arbitrary block to use in a game where hardness values are inconsistent with their actual nature in the real world.
 
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