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I can understand removing low 7-C from fodder but why are some people wanting to completely remove low 7-C
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Minecraft Low 7-C Downgrade
- Thread starter Starter_Pack
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I honestly didn't know that scaling nearly all mobs to the bosses had been applied in the first place. Either fandom didn't notify me about it or the thread to make that change died out months ago. I disagreed with it back then and I obviously still do today.
Anyways, removing Low 7-C is fine. I feel like we should get the obvious removed before tackling the fodder scaling.
Anyways, removing Low 7-C is fine. I feel like we should get the obvious removed before tackling the fodder scaling.
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Because the calc is weird and somewhat manipulative. Iron blocks are a very arbitrary thing to place in front of the dragon when you would probably end up with a vastly different number if you used other (equally arbitrary) blocks.
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Oh, huh. Honestly whether it was vaporisation or pulverisation was confusing to me because the tier was high enough for it to be based on vaporisation and the profile said it but you said in the calc that it was pulverisation. However now I’ve checked the destruction values table for VBW so my uncertainty has been expunged.
JSW recommended that if we want to give the dragon a calc we could assume end stone to be similar to regular stone (which might even be a lowball since end stone has double the hardness of stone in game).
JSW recommended that if we want to give the dragon a calc we could assume end stone to be similar to regular stone (which might even be a lowball since end stone has double the hardness of stone in game).
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Actually, hot take, I disagree with The Ender Dragon being 8-B.
It's based on charging through and deleting non-End Blocks such as netherite blocks, but I never really liked that and it seemed like pure game mechanics given how it's contradicted by being unable to destroy far weaker blocks like End Stone.
... So how about we downgrade The Ender Dragon to High 8-C or below, and THEN we scale mobs accordingly?
Edit: Steve and other mobs can survive Ghast's 8-C Fireballs, so let's just scale the verse to 8-C instead, as that's far more reasonable. Hell, seeing as weak mobs are/will still be 9-A, it creates a clean progression and gap, as the gap between 9-A and 8-C is just a single tier jump.
In other words, 9-A to 8-C Minecraft!
I can write up a full proposal later if need be.
It's based on charging through and deleting non-End Blocks such as netherite blocks, but I never really liked that and it seemed like pure game mechanics given how it's contradicted by being unable to destroy far weaker blocks like End Stone.
... So how about we downgrade The Ender Dragon to High 8-C or below, and THEN we scale mobs accordingly?
Edit: Steve and other mobs can survive Ghast's 8-C Fireballs, so let's just scale the verse to 8-C instead, as that's far more reasonable. Hell, seeing as weak mobs are/will still be 9-A, it creates a clean progression and gap, as the gap between 9-A and 8-C is just a single tier jump.
In other words, 9-A to 8-C Minecraft!
I can write up a full proposal later if need be.
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Mr. Bambu
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8-B is fine imo. Like if they do a feat on that level, then they do a feat on that level. I just wildly disagree with mobs scaling 1:1 with the final bosses. Even with the argument "oh but there isn't much progression". Yeah, so what? The Ender Dragon still isn't equal in any statistical way with a zombie or, god forbid, a ******' cow.
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I'd be fine with downgrading the fodder to 9-A based on the Silverfish
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I was fine with the scaling Mori suggested before and I continue to be fine with it, as well as with the removal of Low 7-C, or even the potential downgrade to High 8-C based on the inconsistency of Ender Dragon destruction.
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My stance is that I agree with the downgrade of fodder mobs, and believe that their stats before whatever last thread made them Low 7-C were fine (Zombie and such being 8-C, weaker stuff being 9-A, etc)
As for Low 7-C as a whole, it is true that the calc is based on non-end blocks, but I'm unsure if that is relevant, since the player can take these blocks with them in the base game pretty easily. So I'm neutral on this point rn.
However I'm kinda leaning towards disagreeing with the vaporisation being such to begin with, all we know is that he destroys them and leaves nothing, this does not adhere to vaporisation at all iirc since there's no visible smoke or such. So all we know is that it destroys the blocks by unknown means...
As for Low 7-C as a whole, it is true that the calc is based on non-end blocks, but I'm unsure if that is relevant, since the player can take these blocks with them in the base game pretty easily. So I'm neutral on this point rn.
However I'm kinda leaning towards disagreeing with the vaporisation being such to begin with, all we know is that he destroys them and leaves nothing, this does not adhere to vaporisation at all iirc since there's no visible smoke or such. So all we know is that it destroys the blocks by unknown means...
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Wouldn't The Ender Dragon still be 8-B via scaling to Charged Creepers and The Wither?
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Should be.
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I agree with downgrading the fodder FRA. Not gonna get into removing the Low 7-C/8-B stuff.
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Do they do a feat on that level, though?
The Ender Dragon scales to 8-B because they "Can destroy lots of Netherite Blocks at once, each of which can no-sell the explosions of Charged Creepers", except Charged Creepers can also destroy End Stone and The Ender Dragon can't.
In my eyes, that's just contradictory game mechanics at play. Not to mention, Charged Creepers one-shot The Player near-absolutely, while The Ender Dragon does not. Same with The Wither.
Charged Creepers are 8-B and one-shot nearly everything, Withers have an 8-B spawning explosion that doesn't scale to their other attacks, and The Ender Dragon has no 8-B feats whatsoever if we discount the contradictory Netherite Block feat.
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Neither The Wither nor The Ender Dragon have reason to scale to Charged Creepers.
In fact, JUST for you guys, I'm going to test out if Charged Creepers can one-shot the player, and what it takes to stop them.
Mr. Bambu
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Can they survive said 8-B attacks? If so, I think it's fine.
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Not very well - in theory, a direct Charged Creeper explosion would chunk The Ender Dragon for over half of it's health, which is far, far more than what literally any other mob in the game can do by a long shot.
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That doesnt sound like it'll scale...
Listentomyrhytm
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The whole thing changed... So if you wanna agree with something, you have to agree with the removing from everyone.
Personally I think what Mori is saying makes sense. Scaling the fodder to 9-A, and the higher ones to 8-C makes it seem more fair imo. Like a clear gap and no weird bullshit. But that's just my thoughts.
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Sure, but that implies 8-B dura, albeit not by much. I just don't think the notion is as outrageous as you're trying to portray it as.
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You literally don't have to agree with everything lmao, what?
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Isn’t that literally a game mechanic so the Ender Dragon doesn’t remove all the floor of the arena.
Seems insane to me to scale the final boss to below a charged creeper….
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Well, first off, aren't we trying to downgrade fodder mobs that can survive 8-B attacks from 8-B? This seems a bit unfair -- we're scaling The Ender Dragon to 8-B through barely tanking an attack that one-shots literally all other mobs, but we're downgrading all other mobs who can tank The Ender Dragon to similar or even more favorable degrees?
We can't have it both ways.
Second off, Ender Dragons can't even destroy iron bars, why are we scaling them to destroying iron and netherite?
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If the Ender Dragon gets significantly hurt by such an attack to the point that it's half dead, and other stuff is evidence against 8-B, I think that should not be considered worthy of scaling.
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Sure, because there's a difference between "final boss" and "fodder mobs". Common sense, Mori. It isn't having it both ways. One is objectively different than the other. The Ender Dragon tanks 8-B, the Ender Dragon has 8-B dura.
At least a "possibly 8-B", like literally at the very least that is the lowest interpretation I could understand.
At least a "possibly 8-B", like literally at the very least that is the lowest interpretation I could understand.
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The dragon survives the blast, the "half health" point doesn't take into account his overall resistance to damage in-game afaik so he'd likely be in a better state than half health tbh.
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"Common sense" through using vague words to create a split in logic isn't different. The Ender Dragon doesn't scale to 8-B by any stretch of the imagination.
Funny how the tables have turned, you thought Minecraft being high-tiered was stupid, but now you're arguing for Minecraft being high-tiered!
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The Ender Dragon has no resistance to my knowledge.
8-C Ender Dragon is the only reasonable conclusion.
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The Wither apparently has 600 HP, which means it can take more than 4 Charged Creeper explosions, and If The Wither has 8-B Durability, The Player and The Ender Dragon would also scale (I Think?)
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The dragons body resists damage moreso than the head, so the explosion almost certainly wouldn't bring him near half health.
Either way, the dragon survives the blast and would continue fighting afterwards, so it should scale.
The dragon being unable to destroy blocks that the charged creeper can is obsolete, the dragons method of destruction is very clearly different to the explosions of creepers, since creepers drop blocks for starters, the dragon leaves nothing. We simply don't know the method of destruction for the dragon.
Regular mobs should be 9-A to 8-C for their previous reasoning, they clearly don't scale to charged creeper explosions.
Listentomyrhytm
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I worded it poorly but the thing is that the argument isn't about jusst that annymore, my bad.
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The Wither's exact HP changes depending on difficulty.
But even then, it doesn't matter! The Player can't take it, and NOTHING ELSE IN THE GAME can do anywhere NEAR that much damage. I'm absolutely never accepting the idea that The Player's attacks should scale to a literal Charged Creeper explosion.
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Again, you're using the same logic that makes regular mobs 8-B to keep The Ender Dragon 8-B. This thread cannot progress if people continue with such backwards logic.
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Once again likely a game mechanic since the iron bars are literally protecting the things that heal the ******* ender dragon are you saying it should destroy those and make it easier for the player to kill it?
Can we stop using dumb game mechanics to further the downgrade even more? I think scaling the player with equipment , Ender dragon and the wither all to the same tier at 8-B seems reasonable
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Aight, then just make the durability 8-B.
Regular mob can't tank Charged Creeper blasts tho?
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Regular Mobs can tank Ender Dragon attacks, though.
That being said, if you make The Ender Dragon's durability 8-B, then we're scaling The Player's attacks to Charged Creeper Explosions as The Player is able to hurt it.
Except The Player doesn't one-shot most mobs with most gear, while Charged Creepers could kill them ten times over.
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