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Military Ceremony (Kiyotaka [Nurturing High School vs Komugi [Hunter x Hunter] 4-1-0)

Komugi basically scales to herself because she's becoming better than her previous self with each turn.
All of this will go against Komugi. Kiyotaka's learning rate itself increases as well. Komugi afaik develops at a constant rate, however Kiyotaka can even increase the speed at which he learns things.
The Preparation Time is for Kiyotaka to practice Gungi. If he just walks in with the basics he's getting slammed. The downtime though can be used to watch Komugi's playstyle if it's In-Character for Komugi to play Gungi as a hobby too and Kiyotaka to just sit and watch or something. Though, she looks to just sit around and do nothing with her free time.
Yes, it is in character for Kiyotaka to make preparations to achieve something. Also, I meant that Kiyotaka would watch videos or something of Komugi's past games, or ask her previous opponents.
 
All of this will go against Komugi. Kiyotaka's learning rate itself increases as well. Komugi afaik develops at a constant rate, however Kiyotaka can even increase the speed at which he learns things.
I guess Komugi improves to a constant rate? I don't know. Kiyotaka's "increasing the speed of which he learns" thing is from his Ski and Archery feat, right? I still stand by my opinion that Kiyotaka would be adapting to an "inferior" (For lack of a better term) Komugi. If Komugi is improving at a constant rate, it's corresponding to her previous self, which is also better than her previous self before that, and so on and so on. I think that even if Kiyotaka is copying and improving upon Komugi's strategizes and skills, Komugi would still keep up because she's conclusively better than the copied Komugi which each turn.


Yes, it is in character for Kiyotaka to make preparations to achieve something. Also, I meant that Kiyotaka would watch videos or something of Komugi's past games, or ask her previous opponents.
I don't think Hunter x Hunter has recording devices 💀 Komugi would tell Kiyotaka about her past opponents because she's a conversationalist and actually pretty friendly. Pretty sure she'll just say "Yeah, by the way, I'll kill myself if I lose." at some point in their discussions.
 
I guess Komugi improves to a constant rate? I don't know. Kiyotaka's "increasing the speed of which he learns" thing is from his Ski and Archery feat, right? I still stand by my opinion that Kiyotaka would be adapting to an "inferior" (For lack of a better term) Komugi. If Komugi is improving at a constant rate, it's corresponding to her previous self, which is also better than her previous self before that, and so on and so on. I think that even if Kiyotaka is copying and improving upon Komugi's strategizes and skills, Komugi would still keep up because she's conclusively better than the copied Komugi which each turn.
Yes, Kiyotaka would be adapting to a less capable Komugi, but my point is that while Kiyotaka would also be playing with the skill level of a weaker Komugi initially, his father rate and instant adaptation which he can bring almost instantly when he already knows the basics (and here, we are talking about him having professionalism). So yes, I think Kiyotaka can lose the first game (or can also adapt in between of the game, but Komugi would have presumably already trapped Kiyotaka to defeat him), but Kiyotaka would be very fast to adapt to her.

And btw, I am also only assuming that Komugi adapts at a constant rate, it's completely okay for you to prove that it's not the case. But from what I could see, both Meruem and Komugi are having almost same learning speed, or Komugi is better. Komugi is also insanely good in her own rights. She is not the type of person who needs to observe something to improve, she naturally adapts every second which makes her very impressive. Meanwhile, Kiyotaka would be dependent on having observe the game and stuff.
I don't think Hunter x Hunter has recording devices 💀 Komugi would tell Kiyotaka about her past opponents because she's a conversationalist and actually pretty friendly. Pretty sure she'll just say "Yeah, by the way, I'll kill myself if I lose." at some point in their discussions.
Well, but COTE has recording devices, so it will be best to assume that they do have recording devices, considering how it will only mean hindering Kiyotaka's natural approach.

And it is quite funny how Kiyotaka is also a conversationalist, only that his conversations would be social influencing and manipulations. Kiyotaka is a kind of person who would not only read Komugi's game, but also her as a person. He would also throw psychological attacks at her (like constantly reminding her of her stakes on the game). And fortunately for Kiyotaka, and unfortunately for her, Komugi's Adversity Capacity is pretty alright, but not on the level of taking complex pre-planned manipulations, plus it would also be attacks at her general intelligence, which is not too good going from her profile.

And Kiyotaka's natural reaction to "I'll kill myself if I lose." would be just a common Kiyotaka "I don't care.". He didn't care if a girl who genuinely showed concern for him and wanted to share some mutually felt pain with him died. For him, having a father is just a fact, not any emotional attachment. He treated his father just as a normal person, and showed nothing to him. He would have no hesitation to make a move which would defeat Komugi, much like cause her to die.
 
(...Komugi would have presumably already trapped Kiyotaka to defeat him)
Nah Komugi wouldn't do that. Kiyotaka can leave at anytime.

And btw, I am also only assuming that Komugi adapts at a constant rate, it's completely okay for you to prove that it's not the case. But from what I could see, both Meruem and Komugi are having almost same learning speed, or Komugi is better. Komugi is also insanely good in her own rights. She is not the type of person who needs to observe something to improve, she naturally adapts every second which makes her very impressive. Meanwhile, Kiyotaka would be dependent on having observe the game and stuff.
I have no evidence for proving that Komugi doesn't adapt at a constant rate (Besides her Nen automatically giving her the best possible moves in a situation), so I'll concede on that point unless someone else comes in with evidence.


Well, but COTE has recording devices, so it will be best to assume that they do have recording devices, considering how it will only mean hindering Kiyotaka's natural approach.
👌




And it is quite funny how Kiyotaka is also a conversationalist, only that his conversations would be social influencing and manipulations. Kiyotaka is a kind of person who would not only read Komugi's game, but also her as a person. He would also throw psychological attacks at her (like constantly reminding her of her stakes on the game). And fortunately for Kiyotaka, and unfortunately for her, Komugi's Adversity Capacity is pretty alright, but not on the level of taking complex pre-planned manipulations, plus it would also be attacks at her general intelligence, which is not too good going from her profile.
💀 I agree with the first point. She has Below Average Intelligence. Kiyotaka would run mental loops around her. Probably going to change my vote to Kiyotaka based off of this. Though, Meruem did do the same thing with threatening to take her arm off and she did him one better by saying "I'll commit suicide." I don't think Kiyotaka just repeating the stakes would do anything, because she showed no reaction to similar scenarios, but any other type of manipulation Komugi is falling for 100%. Komugi is never shown in Hunter x Hunter to deal with someone who use manipulations and Social Influencing (If I didn't miss anything, I'll look though.)


And Kiyotaka's natural reaction to "I'll kill myself if I lose." would be just a common Kiyotaka "I don't care.". He didn't care if a girl who genuinely showed concern for him and wanted to share some mutually felt pain with him died. For him, having a father is just a fact, not any emotional attachment. He treated his father just as a normal person, and showed nothing to him. He would have no hesitation to make a move which would defeat Komugi, much like cause her to die.

  • Challenges Gungi Champion
  • Talks to her after round 1
  • "I'll kill myself if I lose"
  • "I don't care"
  • Beats Komugi
  • Leaves without elaborating
  • Based
 
Sigh


Looking like another W for Kiyotaka. Truly he is the Skilled One. I'm going to stand by Komugi though. Going to make the Post-Rose Meruem vs Current Kiyotaka in the COTE Exams match.
 
Sigh


Looking like another W for Kiyotaka. Truly he is the Skilled One. I'm going to stand by Komugi though. Going to make the Post-Rose Meruem vs Current Kiyotaka in the COTE Exams match.
Koji obliterates though, He has far better reasoning, Thinking, Manipulation Deception etc etc
 
Meruem iirc isn't that good in anything else besides IQ and adaptability (Mabye i'm missing his other feats) but i am pretty sure he didn't do anything impressive aside from those things
 
Koji obliterates though, He has far better reasoning, Thinking, Manipulation Deception etc etc though
I simply believe that Komugi sits 🔛🔝 (Exaggerated, but I think that even with Kiyotaka's adaptations, Komugi will still be above.)


Meruem iirc isn't that good in anything else besides IQ and adaptability (Mabye i'm missing his other feats) but i am pretty sure he didn't do anything impressive aside from those things
Yes, what's your point? (I'm being genuine)
 
I mean, COTE exams are mostly intelligence dependent
Meruem has it in spades. I'm pretty sure Kiyotaka is the only one who has crazy intelligence feats. I only saw a little bit of COTE. But I remember the part where everyone else is yapping while the teacher is talking, then it's revealed that she won't go over the material again. That wouldn't be a problem for Meruem. I need to re-watch COTE again because my memory is hazy. I DO remember thinking Kiyotaka was peak main character at the time and that I found it weird that he fought on par with the glasses dude when he knew Martial Arts after he said "I played a little bit of piano"
 
Meruem has it in spades. I'm pretty sure Kiyotaka is the only one who has crazy intelligence feats. I only saw a little bit of COTE. But I remember the part where everyone else is yapping while the teacher is talking, then it's revealed that she won't go over the material again. That wouldn't be a problem for Meruem. I need to re-watch COTE again because my memory is hazy. I DO remember thinking Kiyotaka was peak main character at the time and that I found it weird that he fought on par with the glasses dude when he knew Martial Arts after he said "I played a little bit of piano"
Oh wait, You are a anime only watcher?
 
Nah Komugi wouldn't do that. Kiyotaka can leave at anytime.
I see. I thought Gungi was a game like chess where you actually have forced moves, or an incredibly disadvantageous situation where escape is like impossible unless your opponent is dumb or very bad at it.
I have no evidence for proving that Komugi doesn't adapt at a constant rate (Besides her Nen automatically giving her the best possible moves in a situation), so I'll concede on that point unless someone else comes in with evidence.
Well, general Accelerated Developments have constant accelerations, and Nen seems like a tool rather than her overall abilities developing themselves, so I don't know about it lol. But yes, Kiyotaka's developments after he knows beyond basic stuff regarding something is incredibly fast. He just starts absorbing everything and applies it to himself from that point on.
💀 I agree with the first point. She has Below Average Intelligence. Kiyotaka would run mental loops around her. Probably going to change my vote to Kiyotaka based off of this. Though, Meruem did do the same thing with threatening to take her arm off and she did him one better by saying "I'll commit suicide." I don't think Kiyotaka just repeating the stakes would do anything, because she showed no reaction to similar scenarios, but any other type of manipulation Komugi is falling for 100%. Komugi is never shown in Hunter x Hunter to deal with someone who use manipulations and Social Influencing (If I didn't miss anything, I'll look though.)
Kiyotaka is not a pure manipulator; he is better at indirect manipulation. He is also very good at deception. If we think about Kiyotaka's manipulations, he wouldn't do something as simple as "I'll kill myself." or anything which can be categorized as direct emotional manipulations, but he is rather an indirect emotional manipulator. For example, consider his Y1V4 to Y1V7 feats. He broke a girl, manipulated her bullies to bully her, then saved her, becoming her savior in her eyes, and later on got her depended on him. Also, started dating her in Y1V11 (everything is adapted in the anime). And everything was planned out on the spot by him when he saw that the girl was getting picked on by people and that she was faking a relationship, just this small lead caused him to make this complex plan.
  • Challenges Gungi Champion
  • Talks to her after round 1
  • "I'll kill myself if I lose"
  • "I don't care"
  • Beats Komugi
  • Leaves without elaborating
  • Based
He was killing people when he was asked to kill them. So, if he asked to defeat someone, he will give it his all. His motivation to lose reasonably and actually find someone better than him is much higher than him genuinely caring for someone.

When he wanted to escape the White Room, he took the help of a butler named Matsuo, and when he did escape, Kiyotaka's father blackmailed and ruined Matsuo's life, which caused Matsuo's death (he burned himself). When Kiyotaka was informed about it, his natural reaction in the anime was "no reaction", and in the novel, well... I don't think I will share it (it's like you read a 14-year-old cringe sigma kid who's all "I only use people", except for the fact that Kiyotaka's actually quite smart and is more of a creator of the trend increasing cringe rather than being one himself), so yeah, Kiyotaka's based. 🗿
 
Yes, what's your point? (I'm being genuine)
In a COTE situation, Meruem would be fighting against tyrants who specialize in manipulation, leadership, influence and stuff, all of what he is not a regular user of. So, comparing Meruem in anything except for fixed situations against Kiyotaka would be a total overkill.
 
I thought Gungi was a game like chess where you actually have forced moves, or an incredibly disadvantageous situation where escape is like impossible unless your opponent is dumb or very bad at it.
There's not too much information on how Gungi is actually played. I was only saying "Nah Komugi wouldn't do that. Kiyotaka can leave at anytime." to refer to Kiyotaka being in the location. Kiyotaka can leave the location anytime during the downtime but when he's playing Gungi he has to stay until the round is finished. Same thing for Komugi.


If we think about Kiyotaka's manipulations, he wouldn't do something as simple as "I'll kill myself." or anything which can be categorized as direct emotional manipulations, but he is rather an indirect emotional manipulator. For example, consider his Y1V4 to Y1V7 feats. He broke a girl, manipulated her bullies to bully her, then saved her, becoming her savior in her eyes, and later on got her depended on him. Also, started dating her in Y1V11 (everything is adapted in the anime). And everything was planned out on the spot by him when he saw that the girl was getting picked on by people and that she was faking a relationship, just this small lead caused him to make this complex plan.
Oh yea that's Ggs for Komugi💀 She got attached to a person who played Gungi with her and just said "By the way, your life is valuable." I can see Kiyotaka capitalizing on this weakness in whatever way is In-Character for him.


When Kiyotaka was informed about it, his natural reaction in the anime was "no reaction", and in the novel, well... I don't think I will share it (it's like you read a 14-year-old cringe sigma kid who's all "I only use people", except for the fact that Kiyotaka's actually quite smart and is more of a creator of the trend increasing cringe rather than being one himself), so yeah, Kiyotaka's based. 🗿
Share it. I want to laugh.


In a COTE situation, Meruem would be fighting against tyrants who specialize in manipulation, leadership, influence and stuff, all of what he is not a regular user of. So, comparing Meruem in anything except for fixed situations against Kiyotaka would be a total overkill.
Could his Accelerated Development make up the difference? I'll make the match later on and this could be discussed there. If it's a Stomp I'll just request for it to be closed.




Anyways, if it's In-Character for Kiyotaka to use his Social Influencing ten out of ten times during the downtime that's given after each round, I'll vote him, but if not, I'm staying on Komugi leaning towards a Tie.
 
Saw the novel. You were right. What were they cooking?
Basically, Kiyotaka was trapped in the White Room by his father. To make an escape, he went to ANHS.

Now, the person to give Kiyotaka information about it was a butler named Matsuo. Matsuo helped Kiyotaka, and it is mentioned later on that it was because he had a son himself named Eiichiro and got pity on Kiyotaka. This way, he helped Kiyotaka to escape the White Room. Atsuomi, Kiyotaka's father didn't like it, so he fired Matsuo, and not only that, but he caused heavy problems in his life. Atsuomi is a very influential person, and political giant who has both huge power and respect, just that he also does a lot of illegal stuff, running the White Room is probably one of the biggest sins and he uses government funds and funds from other influential people to run it.

That's Atsuomi for you. But continuing Matsuo's story, it's just that he died by burning himself to death. His son Eiichiro also suffered a lot. He got admission by passing a very difficult entrance examination, but due to Atsuomi's power, he got expelled from there. He didn't give up and continued to apply to many high schools, but the result was the same, he was always rejected despite being hardworking and disciplined. According to Atsuomi, Eiichiro was working part-time at the time, and had no guarantee of his own future, at the age when he should be in a high school and focusing on his own education.

Kiyotaka's single action and taking help of Matsuo caused an entire family to get ruined. When he was informed about it, he didn't care.

Now, fast-forward to Year 2 Volume 3, the story about Eiichiro is further revealed. Nanase develops Eiichiro's personality and begins to talk and behave like him, all due to the fact that she was traumatized, and deeply cared about Eiichiro. From the plot, you can say that Nanase had a thing or two for Eiichiro. Remember I told you how Kiyotaka's father mentioned about Eiichiro's state, and he was alive at that time, working part-time? Well, in Year 2 Volume 3, it has been revealed that Eiichiro also hung himself and gave up on his life. So, a family which could have easily risen up from being a family of a butler to a successful one was ruined just because someone helped Kiyotaka to escape.

And again, Kiyotaka's natural reaction to this was still the same, as heartless as ever. In fact, all of this was revealed to him when he was engaged in combat, and nothing changed.
 

I forgot this was active tbh so I'll go ahead and share my thoughts on the matchup.

In terms of their abilities to adapt to playing Gungi, Komogi is certainly starting out with an advantage of more skill but Ayanokouji has the better adaptability. So he will improve faster as they continue playing under these conditions I think the answer is clearly yes. Since it is specified that there is a 12 hour break between each game even if Ayanokouji goes into game 1 knowing nothing except the rules in those 12 hours he can reflect on how he and Komogi played and begin to incorporate that into his playstyle. Komogi's adaptability and improvement came from playing many games with Mereum in quick succession. His growth over those games gave her the time and ability to grow herself. In just 5 games Komogi hasn't shown that same ability of rapid improvement. Furthermore her growth doesn't come from the break times so the 12 hour breaks don't help her as much as they help Ayanokouji.

For context, I'll reference the Archery feat which I know was mentioned above to point out the speed and nature of his adaptability. After the first day and him first learning to use a bow he then was able to reflect on what he did and was able to improve his technique over about a 12 hour period to the next day. From there he was able to use perfect form to flawlessly hit the center of the target every time. I mention this to show how the 12 hour timeframe is very useful to him and after each game he would have massive improvement which Komogi won't be able to replicate.

I see the match playing out like this. Komogi wins the first game and then Ayanokouji reflects over the 12 hour period. The second game is much closer and could go either way. Then Koji again uses the 12 hour period to improve. Koji will win the 3rd game with moderate difficulty. He will win the 4th game with less difficulty and will win the 5th without much issue. Komogi only showed an ability to use nen to find better moves and improve herself over WAY more than 5 games and against an opponent who wasn't improving as fast and was weaker than her.

Voting Ayanokouji for these reasons
 
Ayano is in the middle of a CRT that might nerf his intelligence so we might want to hold off on this match for a bit until a conclusion is reached
 
Ayano is in the middle of a CRT that might nerf his intelligence so we might want to hold off on this match for a bit until a conclusion is reached
Would not influence this matchup.

The CRT is not debunking anything related to his learning ability but is just coping with the learning being done with the help of another ability which is supposedly not intelligence.

The results of his learning ability would be the same, and the manipulation and social influencing point would be the same, meaning that this matchup would not get influenced in the slightest.

In fact, VSBW intelligence concepts rarely even affect fixed situation general outsmarting.
 
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