Around 3 of the matches you mentioned aren't in Kiyotaka's side because of Pressure Points, but also due to his insane stamina advantage as well, and due to him being able to regain stamina and maintain his composure and having almost no reaction to even high amounts of pain, blood loss or anything which can be used to torture a human being. And one of the fights in which he didn't have higher stamina, he was fighting against a normal girl who just happened to have higher AP and nothing else in her pocket except for being given a weapon (and also, there was some stuff about Kiyotaka trying to disarm her and using her weapon against herself), so no, these are legitimate matchups, only the 3 pirates one can be debatable somehow.
The entire arguement for him winning against Donald said that he would spam pressure points and dodge until he won. If you were to remove his pressure points, he would've never harmed Donald in that match. A massive part of him winning was due to pressure points.
In the Legosi match, his better stamina wasn't mentioned once, and it all relied on the arguement that Ayano would be able to predict Legosi and know with 100% accuracy what he would do despite not being able to see him. And ofc pressure points to harm him.
And in the 3 pirates match, Stamina wasn't the major arguement, it was skill. Pressure points wasn't brought up much either, but that was pretty clearly the reasoning as to why Ayano could harm them
And again, I am not the kind of person to go with a character being able to harm the another just through Pressure Points. As you can see, I have participated in most of the threads, and I don't frequently debate about his Pressure Points abilities, I myself know that Pressure Points as an ability is a fairly controversial one.
Also, Kiyotaka just has a Pressure Points which is able to harm people. Pressure Points still harms other characters because it is essentially attacking those parts of the body which don't even have the concept of durability, and are very sensitive to any kind of stuff, even touches can feel like tickles and small flicks can cause high amounts of pain. Though yes, knocking a character in one-hit is not possible for Kiyotaka. He has used that ability of his and only to test his opponent's endurance, and he hardly tries to actually one-shot people with it. He has one-shot characters with much higher durability using Pressure Points in his own verse, and has not one-shot characters with much lesser durability and has used Pressure Points again. Pressure Points is not an attack to durability, but to endurance (pain tolerance in wiki terms).
So using your logic, because pressure points don't have durability, if something worth 1 joule hit me on my throat, I would be gasping for air because my windpipe got crushed? A breeze blows too hard and suddenly I collapse because I got hit in the liver?
Pressure points very obviously have durability, you can't just lightly flick your throat and cause severe damage to it. There is no pressure point on the body that you can just lightly press on and suddenly you kill them. The entire reason behind pressure points is that you're attacking a part of the body that is squishier and weaker or has some other effect like the carotid strike. The only way you can cause pain via pressure points is by hitting them hard enough to damage them and cause pain in the body. If you lightly flick someones throat, you won't cause any pain in the slightest. That's why you would punch it, so that you can deal a lot of damage to the throat and, since it's a sensitive area, inflict great amounts of pain. But if someones throat is too durable for you to do any damage to because they have a 300x Durability advantage over you, you're not going to inflict enough damage on them to actually do anything.
Unless those characters that Ayano is knocking out are 20x stronger than him, then we have no proof that Ayano can cover a 20x Durability gap with just pressure points. If those characters were 20x stronger than him, then cool, he can close gaps that big with pressure points. I'd love to see the scan that says that they're 20x stronger than him, and that Ayano took them out in a single hit with just pressure points alone. Isn't the whole point of Ayano that he's the strongest in his verse?
Unless either verse consistantly has weaker characters hurt FAR stronger characters with pressure points, we assume that they cant. Ayano has never been shown hurting people with 20 - 300x his AP with his strikes, the other persons throat or liver or whatever would be too durable for Ayano to muster enough force to actually hurt them. Pressure points are not durability negation, they are just weak spots. And unless a persons weak spot has been shown to be effected by people 20 - 300x weaker than themselves, then we assume that they're relative to the persons durability, just downscaled a bit.
This whole "pressure points are 10-C" arguement really needs to stop. It's only applicable if that statement is consistantly shown in that characters verse. Unless I'm missing something from Donalds, Legosi, Suisei, or the pirates' verses that says they get harmed by PP strikes substantially weaker then them, then we assume that they cant, thus making the previous matches invalid, as that's the entire arguement as to why Ayano would be able to harm them.
I'm starting to wonder how much of the arguements you guys actually read. Me & Dino covered most of this earlier.
You really gotta drop this "pressure points are 10-C until proven to be higher" stuff you made up, Zetsu. There's no such rule accepted in the wiki. Pressure Points don't negate durability unless the pressure point in question is specifically stated to work that way in the verse. At best punching a pressure point of a character would damage that character more than a normal punch would, which isn't quantifiable enough to close a significant AP gap (especially here, where the gap in question is more than 5x). Ayanokouji can only start damaging Ace once he tires out.
Unless one of the verses shows that pressure points can harm characters vastly stronger than themselves (such as a 9-A character getting hurt by a 9-C in their verse through pressure points or vice versa), then it's faulty to assume that pressure points can cover an AP gap that big.
Assuming that every single fictional character's pressure points are 10-C because real life humans pressure points are 10-C is an Association fallacy at best, as you're assuming because real life human necks are 10-C than fictional super strong human necks are also 10-C, or a no limits fallacy at worst, because you're assuming that no matter how strong a character is, a far weaker character could still harm them with pressure points
And unless stated otherwise, pretty much every single match that involves pressure points don't treat them in the way that you described, because that's not how they work. If you want to completley change how pressure points work on this site, you can go ahead and try to do that, I'd be down to continue this debate there. But saying that pressure points don't apply to durability is not how pressure points work. In order to attack their endurance and do damage to a pressure point, you have to put in enough force to actually damage it. And for 9-B characters, that means that you would have to put in 9-B forces in order to harm them.
Anyways, everyone else in this thread but you & Zetsu seemingly agree with me & Dino on this
you 2 do seem to be the Ayano fanboys, wonder if there's any corelation with that or not so let's move on from this arguement
There were no concrete arguments regarding Ayanokouji predicting everything which Ace's luck brought upon him, but rather just probability (50-50) stuff which makes me believe it's inconclusive than going to completely one side.
Luckily I explained why Ace also has other wincons outside of luck here:
Even ignoring luck, Ace has better stats so he'll be able to take quite a lot of punishment, better stamina so he'll be fighting for much longer, 2,000 years of experience to work with, higher intelligence, and great willpower. Even if he can't hit Ayano, Ayano will tire out faster than Ace and it will eventually get to the point that Ace can hit Ayano, and those hits on a tired Ayano will do some serious damage.
Luck is just the cherry on top that confirms my vote
Kiyotaka massively upscales, and outpredicted a person who has narratively extraordinary AnPr. And again, there's nothing like "Peak human AnPr". This has been brought countless times in the thread. AnPr itself is a fairly superhuman ability, and it is itself said so:
AnPr is a real thing that humans can do though.
It's used all the time in competative sports,
especially combat sports. Hell,
chess requires a lot of analytical prediction. A lot of the feats in COTE that other characters pull, such as predicting the trajectory of a volleyball, is stuff real life athletes do all the dang time. And having a "narratively extraordinary" ability doesn't really matter. All that means is that the character is impressive for their verse and in their narrative, but that doesn't suddenly make it superhuman. Homelander is narratively the strongest character in The Boys TV show, but throw him up against the most fodder versions of Superman & he's getting folded in a millisecond.
It's impressive inside of the verse, but that doesn't suddenly make it superhuman. A lot of the feats the COTE characters pull, and even some of the feats Ayano does, is realistically possible with a real humans AnPr. Many of the attacks Ayano blocks, he reacts to and blocks
after they were thrown, which athletic humans can do by predicting where the attack is going to land and blocking/dodging it before it can reach them. I agree that Ayano's AnPr is above any real humans capabilities, but you guys treat it like it's spider-sense or like it's Ethan Morgan's seer abilities. It's not. Ayano is better at it than any human, but claiming that he becomes an untouchable god with it is a bit silly,
he makes mistakes with his predictions and a good enough fighter can definetly overcome it.
Isn't the main reason Ayano is so good at doging in his verse because he speed blitz a majority of them? I would think that having better speed than pretty much everyone in his verse would make it easier for him to dodge their attacks
