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I was told to give input here, but I don't exactly have the time at the moment to read 5 pages, could someone please summarize the arguments here?
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MHA AP and Durability Upgrades
- Thread starter Insert_creative_name_here_12
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I argued previously that since we determine Bakugou's AP with the size of his blasts, we should do the same for his normal attacks (which tend to be 9A) rather than scale his smaller blasts to bigger ones along with give him durability negation due to heat (that last part has been accepted it seems).
Therefir has argued that based on Deku stating 5% is a small increase his base would downscale from it to High 8C or 8C+ (most of us are in agreement on this.
Several calcs have been presented (and accepted) that up the general power level of students to 8C+ or High 8C depending on what base Deku's tier is accepted as.
King and Earthy are debating but I'm not sure what so one of them should summarise the argument so far.
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I agree with Base Deku backscaling to 8-C+, that seems reasonable to me, if 5% is specified to be a small increase, Deku without it shouldn't be that much weaker than said percentage, a small increase shouldn't even be 2x his Base Form tbh, I also agree with Damage's idea that his Base shouldn't be scaling to Bakugo's biggest explosions
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The problem with that is that his statement is vague. How small is he talking here? 60% stronger? Five times as strong. You can't really apply a number to it or say it's a multiplier of sorts. Even 2x would be based on a guess. What Deku would consider "small" would be subjective and can be anyone's guess. This is why we can't take him seriously.
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I think it's a bit absurd to think Deku considers a specifically small increase in power to be more than double his base strength, I mean assuming a 5x increase is small by any means is kinda silly, a small increase would not mean several times greater than his normal strength
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Can you please tell me what's his numerical value for small? Really, explain to me how much is "small" in this case?
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At this point, the only reason his Base is 8-C by the time around Heroes Rising is that he apparently "trained" even though that's not a valid justification for him jumping up a Tier. There literally isn't even a valid reason or calculation his Base should be 8-C after he learned 8%. That pretty much refutes the whole "Full Cowling" thing you like harping on.
I'm ignoring arguments? If that's the case I wouldn't be addressing them in my posts or even responding to a majority of them. That claim is baseless.
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Argument from incredulity
This is similar to the argument from ignorance, except it is based on the fact that the person in question cannot personally believe something.Example: "DBZ characters are so powerful, I find it hard to believe that there are characters stronger than them."
The person in this example asserts that since he personally does not believe something, then it cannot be true.
Just because you believe something is ridiculous or absurd, doesn't make it any less true. Not to mention "small" or "big" is completely unquantifiable as well as subjective. Some people think 5 minutes is a long time, some people think it's a short time. In this scenario they see 5x as a small increase in strength. It's not that hard.
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We already know what kind of value Deku considers small, so whatever the astronomical value you think he's referring to is, it doesn't follow Deku's words.
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@Zamasu_Chan
I mean yeah, I don't think 5x is small, that's my subjective opinion based on how I interpreted the series and topic, that's exactly why I said that this is my opinion on the whole subject, in fact all of Power Scaling in general is rather subjective, so saying that my stance is wrong because it's subjective is basically a way of discrediting a whole lot of Power Scaling
We have to give our subjective viewpoints on this because it's not 100% told to us, we have to make our own subjective interpretations on the media and my interpretation is that a small increase would mean Backscaling Base Deku to 8-C+ is fine
I mean yeah, I don't think 5x is small, that's my subjective opinion based on how I interpreted the series and topic, that's exactly why I said that this is my opinion on the whole subject, in fact all of Power Scaling in general is rather subjective, so saying that my stance is wrong because it's subjective is basically a way of discrediting a whole lot of Power Scaling
We have to give our subjective viewpoints on this because it's not 100% told to us, we have to make our own subjective interpretations on the media and my interpretation is that a small increase would mean Backscaling Base Deku to 8-C+ is fine
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I missed a lot here, what's going on?
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i would also like an update if possible
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Main argument is that since Via the Calcs 8% is only 1,7x 5% give or take that is what Deku would consider a small increase, since he said the same about 8% from 5%.(Also while we don’t treat one for all linearly the difference between 5 and 8 is 1,6x just kinda coincidental it’s so close)
Also a few other reasons but the calc argument is supporting evidence.
This is arguing that Base Deku does scale to 5% Full cowl somewhat albeit still inferior.
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You can't compare his comparison of 8% Full Cowl to 5% Full Cowl with the difference between 5% and his base because we already know the difference between those two percentages. They have calculated values. However, Deku's statement isn't the same since he could be literally referring to any other number. Please define the numerical value of "small".
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So if what one considers small is "subjective" we shouldn't really rely on Deku's statement at all since we don't know his opinion on this. He could be relying on literally ANY number here. We don't know what he's referring to and even ignoring this, many people would have opinions on what they consider small. It'd be inconsistent to track all those opinions.
The only other option is to not use his statement at all, because relying on people's opinions would just lead to multiple people arguing on something that can't objectively be defined. Relying on subjectivity here is illogical.
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I agree with Base Izuku downscaling to 8-C+, in case that wasn't clear.
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8-C+ Base Deku is practically littered with holes. It's only support is a vague statement.
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You know someone that’s 9-A+ is absolutely allowed to go up to 8-C for something like that, right? As long as the difference is 1.5x or less.
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It's not just me, it was Deku himself who compared the difference between 5% and 8%, stating that it was small.
And what proof do you have that it is a completely different number? Tell me, if Deku considers an increase of 1.7 times small, why would he consider a much higher value than that small as well? Why do we have to keep discussing your arguments when we already know Deku's opinion on this?
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I think it's also time to make a list of users in favor and against this revision, so that it doesn't continue to stretch endlessly.
Users in favor of upgrading Deku (9):
@Kingofwolves999
@Steve_Rogers1
@ElixirBlue
@Damage3245 (On the condition that some characters without any feats do not scale)
@TheRustyOne
@Insert_creative_name_here_12
@DemonGodMitchAubin
@Jackof_noTrades068
@Therefir (Myself)
Users with an unknown opinion on this revision (4):
@Metalballrun
@Zamasu_Chan
@XSOULOFCINDERX
@Cyberblader90
Users against upgrading Deku/in favor of downgrading him 9-B/9-A (1):
@Earthyboy
Users in favor of upgrading Deku (9):
@Kingofwolves999
@Steve_Rogers1
@ElixirBlue
@Damage3245 (On the condition that some characters without any feats do not scale)
@TheRustyOne
@Insert_creative_name_here_12
@DemonGodMitchAubin
@Jackof_noTrades068
@Therefir (Myself)
Users with an unknown opinion on this revision (4):
@Metalballrun
@Zamasu_Chan
@XSOULOFCINDERX
@Cyberblader90
Users against upgrading Deku/in favor of downgrading him 9-B/9-A (1):
@Earthyboy
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What does 5-8% have to do with anything? The only reason your assuming it can be compared to the difference between his base and 5% is because Deku considers 8% a miniscule difference. The problem with that is what if the difference between 5-8% is smaller then the difference between his base and 5%? It could literally be way smaller then the gap between his base. Again, define "small" as a numerical value and then come back to me.
Basically, you can't compare them because Deku's statement is still vague. Literally, all this argument still has holes.
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I do wanna make myself clear about what I agree with.
I only agree with the Uraraka/Monoma scaling to Sport Festival Bakugo.
I haven’t read thoroughly enough through all the arguments to agree on much more.
But, I also agreed that it wouldn’t be much of a stretch for Deku to scale that high, as the teachers aren’t worried about Bakugo’s short temper and power effecting the students in a negative way.
I only agree with the Uraraka/Monoma scaling to Sport Festival Bakugo.
I haven’t read thoroughly enough through all the arguments to agree on much more.
But, I also agreed that it wouldn’t be much of a stretch for Deku to scale that high, as the teachers aren’t worried about Bakugo’s short temper and power effecting the students in a negative way.
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Most of these people haven't even been relevant for most of the thread.
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I'm in favor of the upgrade.
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Seeing as how multiple people are in favor of 8-C+, I won't oppose it for now.
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Okay so why is Rappa not 8-B via breaking Unbreakable Kirishima's arms, who is scaling to Sugar Rush Sato who is 9.95 Tons? Base Sato's U.A. Beginning key states he's comparable to Base Izuku who is now 1.99 Tons, Sato's Sugar Rush multiplies his strength by 5.
In chapter 168, which takes place only a few days after Kirishima comes out of the hospital from his battle with Rappa, he takes multiple hits from Sugar Rush Sato and Bakugo. Which means his dura is 9.95 Tons at the least, and Rappa can break his arms with one punch.
So either U.A. Beginning Sato needs to be downgraded or Rappa needs to be upgraded.
Why is the Joint Training Arc even mentioned on Rappa's profile anyway?
In chapter 168, which takes place only a few days after Kirishima comes out of the hospital from his battle with Rappa, he takes multiple hits from Sugar Rush Sato and Bakugo. Which means his dura is 9.95 Tons at the least, and Rappa can break his arms with one punch.
So either U.A. Beginning Sato needs to be downgraded or Rappa needs to be upgraded.
Why is the Joint Training Arc even mentioned on Rappa's profile anyway?
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The revision is finished. We can always use the main Mha thread to fix any potential mistakes.
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That should be removed.
Also Izuku isn't 1.99 tons. 8-C+ does not start there.
Why would we use the General Discussion thread for revisions when we have this CRT?
Or maybe we should just make a new CRT for all scaling issues in the verse.
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I'm back, but yeah there are some people scaling that probably shouldn't be. But first we agreed on Izuku's statement that 5% is a small increase thing, we were talking about Base being 8-C+ or Baseline High 8-C. We choose 8-C+ which means Izuku is 1.99 Tons, since that's the highest 8-C+ can go before it's High 8-C.
5% Is only a small increase of his base, 2.4x gap is smaller than a 4.2x gap. I mentioned this earlier in the thread when I was talking about Sato before, didn't it? I'm pretty sure that's what everyone else was agreeing on as well, though maybe I'm wrong here.
Either way Jiro, Mina, Sero, Kaminari, and Momo should not be scaling and instead be Unknown in their physical AP/Dura. We have no idea how strong those villains they fought were, so that's not really much of a feat.
Momo did block Dark Shadow's attacks with her shield, but I'm uncertain how that should scale to her physical dura.
5% Is only a small increase of his base, 2.4x gap is smaller than a 4.2x gap. I mentioned this earlier in the thread when I was talking about Sato before, didn't it? I'm pretty sure that's what everyone else was agreeing on as well, though maybe I'm wrong here.
Either way Jiro, Mina, Sero, Kaminari, and Momo should not be scaling and instead be Unknown in their physical AP/Dura. We have no idea how strong those villains they fought were, so that's not really much of a feat.
Momo did block Dark Shadow's attacks with her shield, but I'm uncertain how that should scale to her physical dura.
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Choosing 8-C+ does not mean choosing the highest value that 8-C+ can go... That's basically no different than choosing to make him High 8-C.
If he's being downscaled to 8-C+, he should be baseline 8-C+, which is 1.125 Tons.
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I'm not sure what we do when we downscale to a lower tier, I've usually seen people use it's highest value but I'm unsure.
Though Base Izuku is downscaling from 4.7 Tons instead of baseline High 8-C which is 2 Tons. Since he's able to take hits from his own 5% via jumping into a wall, can somewhat injure Todoroki with a headbutt, and considers 5% a small increase.
I'd just assume that we'd put him a 1.99 Tons. Though once again I'm unsure about this, need to ask what everyone else thinks.
Edit: 1.99 Tons or 1.12 Tons, which is it?
Though Base Izuku is downscaling from 4.7 Tons instead of baseline High 8-C which is 2 Tons. Since he's able to take hits from his own 5% via jumping into a wall, can somewhat injure Todoroki with a headbutt, and considers 5% a small increase.
I'd just assume that we'd put him a 1.99 Tons. Though once again I'm unsure about this, need to ask what everyone else thinks.
Edit: 1.99 Tons or 1.12 Tons, which is it?
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By the way, where is the proof that this feat was done with 5%? Izuku runs normally at first with Full Cowl active, then he gets more powerful before he does the super-dash move through through the metal beams.
Izuku has already shown in the movie that he could use up to 30% at will, so for all we know this isn't necessarily him at 5%.
Izuku has already shown in the movie that he could use up to 30% at will, so for all we know this isn't necessarily him at 5%.
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1.12 Tons should be fine.
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He'd be breaking his legs if he was using anything else, remember he can't use high percentages of OFA without injuring himself. He raised it only slightly during his fight with Stain and dislocated his arm.
Izuku isn't even able to use 8%, he'd only be able to use it in a few months. If he was using higher percentages I'm certain the movie would've pointed out his broke legs.
Izuku isn't even able to use 8%, he'd only be able to use it in a few months. If he was using higher percentages I'm certain the movie would've pointed out his broke legs.
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