MHA AP and Durability Upgrades

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

King mentioned it in his shot-gun post I think.

Well I’m not looking at that.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Oh yeah. A better justification for Nighteye’s AP with seals is he oneshot a Rappa clone since that’d make his AP about 10 tons (though maybe a bit lower)

 

[Damage3245]

Oh yeah. A better justification for Nighteye’s AP with seals is he oneshot a Rappa clone since that’d make his AP about 10 tons (though maybe a bit lower)

Rappa is not 10 tons yet.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

Rappa is not 10 tons yet.

His dura is since he’s downscaling from Fatgum’s spear

 

[Therefir]

I think Deku and the students who scale from him should be 8-C+ to demonstrate a clear difference in power between their base level and their power-ups, but I'm fine baseline High 8-C as well.

Not sure if Nighteye can scale from Rappa's clone, maybe downscale if he becomes 8-B.

 

[Therefir]

I only have one issue and that’s the Iida thing cause iirc he one shot a bot in the entrance exam.

We can't really see what exactly he is kicking, and he could have been using Recipro Burst.

 

[Insert_creative_name_here_12]

I think Deku and the students who scale from him should be 8-C+ to demonstrate a clear difference in power between their base level and their power-ups, but I'm fine baseline High 8-C as well.

Not sure if Nighteye can scale from Rappa's clone, maybe downscale if he becomes 8-B.

Nighteye oneshot the clone so he’d scale (to beat a Twice clone you have to do damage equivalent to a broken arm)

We can't really see what exactly he is kicking, and he could have been using Recipro Burst.

His engines change when he uses Recipro his exhaust changes as well.

 

[Earthyboy]

True. I'll simplify:

Base Deku isn't wall level going by his own logic, Ochako cannot be proven to have been hurt by the force of those explosions, Deku states 5% isn't much of an increase, feats point to that statement being true, and students becoming over 8 hundred thousand times stronger in less than 6 months is stupid and unfounded.

Scaling the students lower is more incorrect than scaling them higher, which has no issues other than "i don't like them being that high."


I thought we were scaling them off Shinso, who despite being weaker than Deku, is able to hurt him. The only other alternative is them not having tiers at all.

"Ochaco cannot be proven to have been hurt by the force of the explosion." I can actually prove that. The explosion still has it's AP/energy, it's not like it disappeared. (I stated that several times btw.) Ochaco would've died if she wasn't capable of withstanding the explosion's power, to begin with. That's proof alone she should scale to it. I can also prove this blast wasn't even Bakugo at his max power, since it's shown in later panels that his full power was this. So there's no reason to say his smaller blast was even 8-C.

Deku's statement is contradicted by so many things. He was getting bullied by a Bakugo who was holding back and trying to prolong his match. Bakugo stated he wouldn't mess him up too much to be disqualified. It's pretty obvious Bakugo isn't going all out on Deku. (Stated this before, and yet you still repeat yourself.)

You basically just repeated everything you've said before, including Ochako withstanding Bakugo's explosions. All of which I've explained. You even shotgunned me before you were asked to simplify your post. At this point, you don't really have anything to argue with.

 

[Earthyboy]

It's even stated, by Bakugo himself, that his smaller explosions were half-assed compared to his bigger ones. This is confirmation his smaller ones should not be compared to his bigger ones at all.

 

[ElixirBlue]

The Implication is that Bakugo can withstand the force of his explosions with his strength.

The same physical strength he striked Monoma with. It doesn’t matter Bakugo was firing a smaller explosion.

What matters is that Bakugo slapped Monoma’s arm with serious force and Monoma withstood that force without moving or causing the people below him to move.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

"Ochaco cannot be proven to have been hurt by the force of the explosion." I can actually prove that. The explosion still has it's AP/energy, it's not like it disappeared. (I stated that several times btw.) Ochaco would've died if she wasn't capable of withstanding the explosion's power, to begin with. That's proof alone she should scale to it. I can also prove this blast wasn't even Bakugo at his max power, since it's shown in later panels that his full power was this. So there's no reason to say his smaller blast was even 8-C.

Deku's statement is contradicted by so many things. He was getting bullied by a Bakugo who was holding back and trying to prolong his match. Bakugo stated he wouldn't mess him up too much to be disqualified. It's pretty obvious Bakugo isn't going all out on Deku. (Stated this before, and yet you still repeat yourself.)

You basically just repeated everything you've said before, including Ochako withstanding Bakugo's explosions. All of which I've explained. You even shotgunned me before you were asked to simplify your post. At this point, you don't really have anything to argue with.

No one scales to his explosions, the Ochako talk is meaningless.

No, his statement is supported in verse. You can be inferior to someone and downscale from them. Bakugo cannot and never has displayed the ability to one shot Deku.

“You repeated everything you’ve already said” isn’t an argument. You didn’t debunk or address all the points I made, so you’re the one not saying anything new. You’re just talking in circles.

It's even stated, by Bakugo himself, that his smaller explosions were half-assed compared to his bigger ones. This is confirmation his smaller ones should not be compared to his bigger ones at all.

No one scales to taking his explosions anyway. So this doesn’t matter.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The Implication is that Bakugo can withstand the force of his explosions with his strength.

The same physical strength he striked Monoma with. It doesn’t matter Bakugo was firing a smaller explosion.

What matters is that Bakugo slapped Monoma’s arm with serious force and Monoma withstood that force.

I typed that like 4 hours ago and removed it but I guess it saved, ignore it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Ah, ok

 

[Earthyboy]

No one scales to his explosions, the Ochako talk is meaningless.

No, his statement is supported in verse. You can be inferior to someone and downscale from them. Bakugo cannot and never has displayed the ability to one shot Deku.

“You repeated everything you’ve already said” isn’t an argument. You didn’t debunk or address all the points I made, so you’re the one not saying anything new. You’re just talking in circles.



No one scales to taking his explosions anyway. So this doesn’t matter.

You're literally just gonna hide behind the excuse "no one scales to his explosions" despite there being quite BLATANT proof that they can be scaled too, instead of addressing everything I've said.

You can be inferior to someone and downscale, but the problem is that Deku was hurt by explosions that aren't even 9-A. He was repeatedly getting owned by a Bakugo who wasn't even making his explosions that powerful. Bakugo doesn't even have to one-shot Deku, he was holding back so he could prolong his match. HE EVEN STATED that his smaller explosions are half-assed compared to his bigger ones, so what's the excuse for them being 8-C?

Literally, I've explained this to you thousands of times, and yet you still use the same excuse.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

You're literally just gonna hide behind the excuse "no one scales to his explosions" despite there being quite BLATANT proof that they can be scaled too, instead of addressing everything I've said.

You can be inferior to someone and downscale, but the problem is that Deku was hurt by explosions that aren't even 9-A. He was repeatedly getting owned by a Bakugo who wasn't even making his explosions that powerful. Bakugo doesn't even have to one-shot Deku, he was holding back so he could prolong his match. HE EVEN STATED that his smaller explosions are half-assed compared to his bigger ones, so what's the excuse for them being 8-C?

Literally, I've explained this to you thousands of times, and yet you still use the same excuse.

I'm hiding behind nothing, the argument for Bakugo's explosions is that they negate durability due to their heat. Characters that aren't 9-A get hurt by his blasts, so the argument of "he got hurt by an explosion" means nothing, otherwise we'd say All Might is wall level for feeling pain from them.

"Repeatedly getting owned" = was hit by 2 explosions and a single physical hit? Bakugo hit Deku 3 times in that fight, with the last hit being entirely heat since he suffered 3rd degree burns, you're misremembering if you think he was "repeatedly getting owned".

I'm not claiming his explosions are 8-c. They deal damage through their durability ignoring heat. The force they do is negligible other than pushing people, which you have claimed doesn't mean anything. Do you disagree with that?

What excuse? This whole thread has agreed on the durability negation part, you're the one talking nonsense with no end goal.

 

[Earthyboy]

I'm hiding behind nothing, the argument for Bakugo's explosions is that they negate durability due to their heat. Characters that aren't 9-A get hurt by his blasts, so the argument of "he got hurt by an explosion" means nothing, otherwise we'd say All Might is wall level for feeling pain from them.

"Repeatedly getting owned" = was hit by 2 explosions and a single physical hit? Bakugo hit Deku 3 times in that fight, with the last hit being entirely heat since he suffered 3rd degree burns, you're misremembering if you think he was "repeatedly getting owned".

I'm not claiming his explosions are 8-c. They deal damage through their durability ignoring heat. The force they do is negligible other than pushing people, which you have claimed doesn't mean anything. Do you disagree with that?

What excuse? This whole thread has agreed on the durability negation part, you're the one talking nonsense with no end goal.

You realize that I never even denied that they negate durability, right? I've even said I agree with it. And It's not like the explosions aren't capable of dealing with physical damage. They're capable of blowing through walls, hell, they blew a hole through a building, and they even blew away large chunks of ice. It'd be absolutely preposterous to say they only do heat damage. It's proven that they can do both. So canonically, they're capable of doing both sides of the same coin.

This is something I've mentioned several times throughout the whole thread. And there's still three people who disagree with you on the explosions only doing heat damage, not everyone agrees that it's their only form of damage. This basically completely debunks everything you've said so far.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

You realize that I never even denied that they negate durability, right? I've even said I agree with it. And It's not like the explosions aren't capable of dealing with physical damage. They're capable of blowing through walls, hell, they blew a hole through a building, and they even blew away large chunks of ice. It'd be absolutely preposterous to say they only do heat damage. It's proven that they can do both. So canonically, they're capable of doing both sides of the same coin.

This is something I've mentioned several times throughout the whole thread. And there's still three people who disagree with you on the explosions only doing heat damage, not everyone agrees that it's their only form of damage. This basically completely debunks everything you've said so far.

So if we're under the impression that his explosions do both heat and force damage, what do instances such as 5% Deku being injured by his explosions such as right here imply. I never disagreed they do both either, but for him to be able to hurt characters in a higher tier than the size of explosions he's making, it cannot be from the force.

None of those feats are enough to imply he can hurt High 8-C characters though. That level of force implies nothing. I don't care if his explosions have both heat and force, something that is obvious otherwise i wouldn't mention it several times, but i do care when his explosions are capable of hurting people they shouldn't be able to given the size.

If his explosions do force damage as well, the force would have to be equivalent to the durability of the characters he's hitting in order to damage them. This would imply 5% is 9-A. Do you agree with that?

 

[Earthyboy]

So if we're under the impression that his explosions do both heat and force damage, what do instances such as 5% Deku being injured by his explosions such as right here imply. I never disagreed they do both either, but for him to be able to hurt characters in a higher tier than the size of explosions he's making, it cannot be from the force.

None of those feats are enough to imply he can hurt High 8-C characters though. That level of force implies nothing. I don't care if his explosions have both heat and force, something that is obvious otherwise i wouldn't mention it several times, but i do care when his explosions are capable of hurting people they shouldn't be able to given the size.

If his explosions do force damage as well, the force would have to be equivalent to the durability of the characters he's hitting in order to damage them. This would imply 5% is 9-A. Do you agree with that?

In the scan you posted he wasn't hurt by the explosion's force and even managed to dodge most of it. He was hurt by the heat of it. You can obviously tell that it wasn't force due to how his leg was smoking.

"I never disagreed they do both either."

No one scales to taking his explosions anyway. So this doesn’t matter.

What was that again?

His explosions for the most part never really hurt people they aren't capable of hurting outside of heat damage. Really, anytime they hurt a HIgh 8-C and they're small, it's due to heat.

5% was never forced back by one of his 9-A, or smaller explosions, ever. All the extremely small explosions Bakugo threw at him, he dodged. You can look at their fight and notice this. You won't find him being forced back by pot-sized explosions there.

 

[Metalballrun]

I'm unsure if this has been brought up before, but Deku's Iron Soles is stated to provide a double impact, so doesn't that mean that Deku's actual kicks are just half of what the entire output his kicks with his Iron Soles does?
Although, we have to consider the times when Deku kicks with the soles (where the blowback effect happens) and when Deku just stomps stuff (where the blowback shouldn't happen).

 

[Earthyboy]

I'm unsure if this has been brought up before, but Deku's Iron Soles is stated to provide a double impact, so doesn't that mean that Deku's actual kicks are just half of what the entire output his kicks with his Iron Soles does?
Although, we have to consider the times when Deku kicks with the soles (where the blowback effect happens) and when Deku just stomps stuff (where the blowback shouldn't happen).

So, should he be close to 8-B with them then?

 

[TheRustyOne]

For the longest time we did have him with 2x AP with iron soles, but it was agreed that it wasn't a two times increase. It's just a double impact, they don't stack on to each other. There's a difference between putting two kicks into one and kicking twice.

It's just one kick, and another identical impact after the other. He'd get the same results from kicking twice without the Iron Soles. Also Izuku doesn't have any calcs that place him at something with the Iron Soles I believe. He's just scaling to Bakugo's 8 Ton calc or something, and his 5% kick was before he had the Iron Soles.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

In the scan you posted he wasn't hurt by the explosion's force and even managed to dodge most of it. He was hurt by the heat of it. You can obviously tell that it wasn't force due to how his leg was smoking.

"I never disagreed they do both either."

What was that again?

His explosions for the most part never really hurt people they aren't capable of hurting outside of heat damage. Really, anytime they hurt a HIgh 8-C and they're small, it's due to heat.

5% was never forced back by one of his 9-A, or smaller explosions, ever. All the extremely small explosions Bakugo threw at him, he dodged. You can look at their fight and notice this. You won't find him being forced back by pot-sized explosions there.

See this is my issue with your stance. Why is this specific example one where you say heat did all the damage alone. You never say this for Base Deku or Ochako getting hurt despite them not taking any damage that implies force.

That quote is correct. I don't disagree his explosions are heat and force. I do disagree that he is harming high 8-c characters like 5% Deku with that force though (you also agree to this, as you say he only took heat damage), and given Deku's statement and the showings presented, i disagree that he took damage through force as well.

See this right here? You are cherry picking examples. You claim all the damage he does to high 8-c characters is heat alone. You are making the claim that he can ONLY hurt 5% with his explosions through heat. Why then do you change this argument for base deku. Why does he take damage from the force if 5% does not. Why is 5% only hurt by the heat but Base Deku is hurt by the force and heat. You do not address this, and that is my issue.

Yes, Bakugo did blow him away. If you were to calc this explosion, it would not be anywhere near High 8-C, which would be the required force needed to move 8% Deku. Unless your argument here is that 8% Deku was off guard, there should be no reason he is moved here. But that is your argument right? He's off guard? Because even street level attacks can move high 8-C's? That's your argument right? Then where is that argument for base deku.

Base Deku is not moved by Bakugo's explosions. Base Deku is off guard when he is hit by that wall level explosion. Therefore, all damage should be attributed solely to heat, and not force, similar to 5% Deku. Is this explanation more to your liking, since it's the one you fancy for explaining every instance of explosions harming high 8-c's?

There are displayed examples of small explosions forcing people back that they shouldn't be able to. Bakugo himself has his head snapped to the side by a street level explosion from Monoma. You explain away these instances as the characters being off guard, but then ignore that Base Deku was off guard when Bakugo hit him with that wall level explosion? You disregard your own belief of what constitutes being off guard just to scale him to a feat that can be fully attributed to heat rather than force, similar to how you attribute 5% taking only damage from the heat? Similar to how you attribute Bakugo taking damage from a street level explosion is due to heat? You claim other characters take damage solely due to heat, yet the one example of an off guard character getting hurt by his explosions is the one you DON'T want to attribute to heat? Especially when moments later, he is unmoved by an explosion so strong it causes 3rd degree burns?

Your argument isn't consistent and is riddled with bias. You want Base Deku to be wall level regardless of any implications just because you say he is. You give no reasons for why he takes the force of that explosion while others don't, despite him fulfilling criteria you yourself have set up for someone being off guard.

You would rather argue that Base Deku got over 300 thousand times stronger in a few months, while keeping his full cowl the exact same strength, than downscale him to his 5%, despite he himself saying he does. Do you realize how absurd your assertion is?

You are saying that 5% Deku is astronomically higher than Base Deku based off an off guard Base Deku being hurt by an explosion, but then argue that over a few months, Base Deku grew hundreds of thousands of times stronger, yet his Full Cowl stayed the exact same? By your logic, 8% Deku should be City Level, not just higher into high 8-c.

You are not thinking correctly if you do not realize the issues that arise from Base Deku being wall level but 5% being Large Building Level.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Just to simplify this to a level that we can all understand, i typed a lot again:

Why does Base Deku scale to the force of that explosion, but 5%, 8% and Bakugo (vs Monoma) do not scale to the force of their explosions, when 5% was injured by it, 8% was pushed back by it and Bakugo was harmed and had his head snapped back by it.

If your answer to that question is 5% only took heat damage and 8%/Bakugo were off guard, why does Base Deku not also apply for those two criteria.

 

[Earthyboy]

See this is my issue with your stance. Why is this specific example one where you say heat did all the damage alone. You never say this for Base Deku or Ochako getting hurt despite them not taking any damage that implies force.

That quote is correct. I don't disagree his explosions are heat and force. I do disagree that he is harming high 8-c characters like 5% Deku with that force though (you also agree to this, as you say he only took heat damage), and given Deku's statement and the showings presented, i disagree that he took damage through force as well.

See this right here? You are cherry picking examples. You claim all the damage he does to high 8-c characters is heat alone. You are making the claim that he can ONLY hurt 5% with his explosions through heat. Why then do you change this argument for base deku. Why does he take damage from the force if 5% does not. Why is 5% only hurt by the heat but Base Deku is hurt by the force and heat. You do not address this, and that is my issue.

Yes, Bakugo did blow him away. If you were to calc this explosion, it would not be anywhere near High 8-C, which would be the required force needed to move 8% Deku. Unless your argument here is that 8% Deku was off guard, there should be no reason he is moved here. But that is your argument right? He's off guard? Because even street level attacks can move high 8-C's? That's your argument right? Then where is that argument for base deku.

Base Deku is not moved by Bakugo's explosions. Base Deku is off guard when he is hit by that wall level explosion. Therefore, all damage should be attributed solely to heat, and not force, similar to 5% Deku. Is this explanation more to your liking, since it's the one you fancy for explaining every instance of explosions harming high 8-c's?

There are displayed examples of small explosions forcing people back that they shouldn't be able to. Bakugo himself has his head snapped to the side by a street level explosion from Monoma. You explain away these instances as the characters being off guard, but then ignore that Base Deku was off guard when Bakugo hit him with that wall level explosion? You disregard your own belief of what constitutes being off guard just to scale him to a feat that can be fully attributed to heat rather than force, similar to how you attribute 5% taking only damage from the heat? Similar to how you attribute Bakugo taking damage from a street level explosion is due to heat? You claim other characters take damage solely due to heat, yet the one example of an off guard character getting hurt by his explosions is the one you DON'T want to attribute to heat? Especially when moments later, he is unmoved by an explosion so strong it causes 3rd degree burns?

Your argument isn't consistent and is riddled with bias. You want Base Deku to be wall level regardless of any implications just because you say he is. You give no reasons for why he takes the force of that explosion while others don't, despite him fulfilling criteria you yourself have set up for someone being off guard.

You would rather argue that Base Deku got over 300 thousand times stronger in a few months, while keeping his full cowl the exact same strength, than downscale him to his 5%, despite he himself saying he does. Do you realize how absurd your assertion is?

You are saying that 5% Deku is astronomically higher than Base Deku based off an off guard Base Deku being hurt by an explosion, but then argue that over a few months, Base Deku grew hundreds of thousands of times stronger, yet his Full Cowl stayed the exact same? By your logic, 8% Deku should be City Level, not just higher into high 8-c.

You are not thinking correctly if you do not realize the issues that arise from Base Deku being wall level but 5% being Large Building Level.

Why is that example only Deku taking heat damage? It's pretty obvious that his leg was burnt, and he wasn't really affected by the force. He even dodged most of the explosion and only got grazed. Nothing implies he was damaged by the force. While Base Deku and Uraraka were getting blowback by the explosions most of the time. I pretty much explained this to you already.

Now hold on a second, you took what I said out of context. I didn't just say that most of the damage Bakugo does to High 8-C's is due to heat, I said that he mostly uses his smaller explosions instead of his bigger ones for most of the time, and his smaller ones aren't potent enough to damage High 8-C's. So obviously he's gonna be doing mostly heat damage.

Not only was Deku in mid-air when Bakugo fired an explosion at him, but Deku also managed to dodge it as well. He already saw the attack coming and Bakugo even stated it wasn't a direct hit. So the attack didn't really force him back, at all.

"Base Deku was caught off guard by the explosion." The context implies that the knock-back was enough to hurt him. He didn't scream when Bakugo literally directed an explosion to his face, but yelled in pain when it hit his back. This basically implies it's the explosion's force that hurt him.

Even ignoring this, it wouldn't automatically make his smaller explosions capable of scaling to his bigger ones. Again, Bakugo himself stated his smaller explosions are half-assed. They should not be compared.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

"Base Deku was caught off guard by the explosion." The context implies that the knock-back was enough to hurt him. He didn't scream when Bakugo literally directed an explosion to his face, but yelled in pain when it hit his back. This basically implies it's the explosion's force that hurt him.

Even ignoring this, it wouldn't automatically make his smaller explosions capable of scaling to his bigger ones. Again, Bakugo himself stated his smaller explosions are half-assed. They should not be compared.

It doesn't matter if the context implies the knock-back hurt him, because by your own admission, small explosions can push back high 8-c characters. Why is that not being applied here? By context, Monoma smacked Bakugo across the face and hurt him with a street level explosion. By context, Bakugo can hurt 5% Deku with any explosion. By context, Bakugo beat 8% Deku with an explosion weaker than Deku's durability. NOW you want to start throwing around the word "context"?

He takes an explosion to the back and is harmed. He is not knocked back, he is pushed forward slightly and reaches to grab his back in pain. Why is that explained as force but not heat, when Bakugo is shown capable of severely burning him in the same chapter?

So you're argument that him not screaming when his arm is torched by 3rd degree burns and he is unmoved by a STRONGER explosion proves that he was more hurt by a smaller explosion that he was off guard for?

Answer my question on how Base Deku exceeded his durability by 300 thousand times in a few months, but his full cowl stayed the exact same strength.

 

[Earthyboy]

Let's bring up some reasons why Base Deku probably shouldn't be High 8-C.
Deku himself stated he would've died from falling after his first Smash. Even a High 8-C could survive this.
Can't even damage a High 8-C with a throw.
Can't even compete with a Bakugo who's holding back immensely.
There's simply no way Deku could be High 8-C when he's not even capable of hurting a High 8-C himself.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Let's bring up some reasons why Base Deku probably shouldn't be High 8-C.
Deku himself stated he would've died from falling after his first Smash. Even a High 8-C could survive this.
Can't even damage a High 8-C with a throw.
Can't even compete with a Bakugo who's holding back immensely.
There's simply no way Deku could be High 8-C when he's not even capable of hurting a High 8-C himself.

All For One implies a high enough fall would hurt Shigaraki, Ochako destroy's villain bots from dropping them from the sky, Toga kills PLF members that can harm her by dropping them from the sky. Falling in MHA doesn't imply 9-C durability, this argument is bad.

Throws are not feats of AP, otherwise Bakugo throwing Deku to the ground is a feat for Deku downscaling to Bakugo physically

Not being able to compete with someone doesn't imply he can't downscale.

He could push back todoroki with a headbutt. Are you going to imply that was off guard too?

Answer my question on how Base Deku exceeded his durability by 300 thousand times in a few months, but his full cowl stayed the exact same strength.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

throws aren't feats of AP, mis typed. Or at least people seem to agree they aren't.

 

[Earthyboy]

It doesn't matter if the context implies the knock-back hurt him, because by your own admission, small explosions can push back high 8-c characters. Why is that not being applied here? By context, Monoma smacked Bakugo across the face and hurt him with a street level explosion. By context, Bakugo can hurt 5% Deku with any explosion. By context, Bakugo beat 8% Deku with an explosion weaker than Deku's durability. NOW you want to start throwing around the word "context"?

He takes an explosion to the back and is harmed. He is not knocked back, he is pushed forward slightly and reaches to grab his back in pain. Why is that explained as force but not heat, when Bakugo is shown capable of severely burning him in the same chapter?

So you're argument that him not screaming when his arm is torched by 3rd degree burns and he is unmoved by a STRONGER explosion proves that he was more hurt by a smaller explosion that he was off guard for?

Answer my question on how Base Deku exceeded his durability by 300 thousand times in a few months, but his full cowl stayed the exact same strength.

Small explosions can't push back High 8-C's characters here. It's never been shown and all the times you've tried to prove that I've explained that you've taken all the scans of to context. Bakugo was caught off-guard by Monoma's attack. You're telling me Bakugo is capable of withstanding an explosion that's basically comparable to his strongest but gets hurt to a weak one? He already states his smaller explosions are half-assed. That's basically canonical proof that his smaller explosions aren't comparable to his bigger ones.

"He is not backed." He was literally thrown off his feet in that panel. BY DEFINITION, that counts as being knocked back. He doesn't really scream out when the explosion hits him in the face despite the temperature, but all of a sudden he screams when the explosion knocks him back? This is proof it's the force hurting him here.

Is your question referring to when Deku trained for the 10 months for U.A? Or when he trained for months to get close to 8%?

 

[Metalballrun]

For the longest time we did have him with 2x AP with iron soles, but it was agreed that it wasn't a two times increase. It's just a double impact, they don't stack on to each other. There's a difference between putting two kicks into one and kicking twice.

It's just one kick, and another identical impact after the other. He'd get the same results from kicking twice without the Iron Soles. Also Izuku doesn't have any calcs that place him at something with the Iron Soles I believe. He's just scaling to Bakugo's 8 Ton calc or something, and his 5% kick was before he had the Iron Soles.

This is kinda like, my point though? What I meant is that the results of the kicks he performs with Iron Soles must be halved because it basically doubles the results.
But if there isn't any calc that uses Iron Soles then I suppose it's fine. I just found it worth pointing out.

 

[Earthyboy]

All For One implies a high enough fall would hurt Shigaraki, Ochako destroy's villain bots from dropping them from the sky, Toga kills PLF members that can harm her by dropping them from the sky. Falling in MHA doesn't imply 9-C durability, this argument is bad.

Throws are not feats of AP, otherwise Bakugo throwing Deku to the ground is a feat for Deku downscaling to Bakugo physically

Not being able to compete with someone doesn't imply he can't downscale.

He could push back todoroki with a headbutt. Are you going to imply that was off guard too?

First of all, it depends on what All For One classifies as "hurt" when talking about Shigaraki, and how high he would fall. Ochaco destroying villain bots by dropping them from the sky literally contradicts nothing. The 9-A calculations are basically invalid.

So let me get this straight. Deku throwing Bakugo with enough force to slam him into the ground isn't an AP feat? The throw still has force though. That would be able to hurt someone if you did it in real life because of the force behind it. That really doesn't make sense.

It's literally stated Bakugo is holding back against Deku, by All Might and Bakugo himself. He wasn't trying to kill him.

When did Deku hit Todoroki with a head-but?

 

[Earthyboy]

Even ignoring all of this, Bakugo's smaller explosions are stated by himself to be half-assed compared to his bigger ones. Basically proving his smaller explosions don't scale to the High 8-C ones.

Deku's statement is vague because he has little to no experience with 5% of One For All and didn't even get Full Cowl with it. He used it sparingly and even then it needed intense concentration. He's extremely cautious about going over his limit with it as well. His speed is literally a joke compared to 5%, the difference should be pretty obvious now.

All of the arguments behind High 8-C basically make no sense.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Small explosions can't push back High 8-C's characters here. It's never been shown and all the times you've tried to prove that I've explained that you've taken all the scans of to context. Bakugo was caught off-guard by Monoma's attack. You're telling me Bakugo is capable of withstanding an explosion that's basically comparable to his strongest but gets hurt to a weak one? He already states his smaller explosions are half-assed. That's basically canonical proof that his smaller explosions aren't comparable to his bigger ones.

"He is not backed." He was literally thrown off his feet in that panel. BY DEFINITION, that counts as being knocked back. He doesn't really scream out when the explosion hits him in the face despite the temperature, but all of a sudden he screams when the explosion knocks him back? This is proof it's the force hurting him here.

Is your question referring to when Deku trained for the 10 months for U.A? Or when he trained for months to get close to 8%?

So being off guard means you can be pushed or hurt by attacks weaker than you? Than Base Deku was off guard for that wall level attack and shouldn't scale to it.

He screamed from pain and was pushed back because he was off guard. By your admission, that means even if he was High 8-C he would've been injured here.

I am referring to Deku being able to take hits from NIne in Heroes Rising. He is capable of taking hits better than Bakugo in his base consistently. By your logic, he would've gotten 300 thousand times stronger. If that is correct, why is his full cowl not far stronger.

First of all, it depends on what All For One classifies as "hurt" when talking about Shigaraki, and how high he would fall. Ochaco destroying villain bots by dropping them from the sky literally contradicts nothing. The 9-A calculations are basically invalid.

So let me get this straight. Deku throwing Bakugo with enough force to slam him into the ground isn't an AP feat? The throw still has force though. That would be able to hurt someone if you did it in real life because of the force behind it. That really doesn't make sense.

It's literally stated Bakugo is holding back against Deku, by All Might and Bakugo himself. He wasn't trying to kill him.

When did Deku hit Todoroki with a head-but?

Shigaraki would've reached terminal velocity and height wouldn't matter. How strong are the villain bots. Idk why 9-A calcs matter to Toga.

So you agree Deku hurt Bakugo then. Bakugo lets out a grunt of pain, so Base Deku can hurt Bakugo. You just contradicted yourself by saying throws imply AP.

You can hurt someone without restraining yourself hundreds of thousands of times without trying to kill them. Your belief that only wanting to kill someone means you are trying is incorrect.

Prove Bakugo can hold back his physical strikes by hundreds of thousands of times.

Right here. Blatantly headbutts Todoroki and sends him flying backwards.

Even ignoring all of this, Bakugo's smaller explosions are stated by himself to be half-assed compared to his bigger ones. Basically proving his smaller explosions don't scale to the High 8-C ones.

Deku's statement is vague because he has little to no experience with 5% of One For All and didn't even get Full Cowl with it. He used it sparingly and even then it needed intense concentration. He's extremely cautious about going over his limit with it as well. His speed is literally a joke compared to 5%, the difference should be pretty obvious now.

All of the arguments behind High 8-C basically make no sense.

No one scales to his explosions anyway. I have already agreed that his explosions are not all high 8-c. What part of that are you not understanding.

So he doesn't understand his own strength despite having used it already and being shown to control it? He already knows exactly the strength 5% gives him when he used it to push away Todoroki's arm, and further when he punched Todoroki in the stomach with it. Him being cautious shows he's inexperienced with it, that doesn't change how strong it actually is. Full Cowl isn't stronger than 5% in a single limb, if it was we'd have High 6-C FC 100% Speed is irrelevant to AP.

The argument that Deku became 300 thousand times stronger in a few months makes no sense. The argument that "he doesn't know how strong his own body is despite having used the ability twice and being highly invested in quirk analysis" makes no sense.

 

[Earthyboy]

Since you've admitted that you agreed on my point with his smaller explosions, let's break Deku's statement down.

We're assuming Deku's Base is similar to 5% Full Cowl based on that one statement alone. The problem with this is that it's too vague. It's not specified what Deku considers to be small in this instance. It's way too vague. This is basically what this all boils down to now.

Prove Bakugo can hold back his physical strikes by hundreds of thousands of times.

Literally, if Bakugo's physical hits here are the same as his strongest explosions it would defeat the purpose of him holding back on Deku. And who said he's going all out, to begin with?

The argument that Deku became 300 thousand times stronger in a few months makes no sense. The argument that "he doesn't know how strong his own body is despite having used the ability twice and being highly invested in quirk analysis" makes no sense.

Why is Deku becoming 300 times stronger in a few months ridiculous? He went from average human level to Superhuman levels in ten months. Nothing says this isn't possible. And to answer your question about Full Cowl? One For All's percentages don't increase at a linear rate, so we don't know the levels required to wield the quirk at higher levels, so this is irrelevant.

 

[Earthyboy]

I'll continue this tomorrow, I have stuff to attend too.

 

[Therefir]

Why is Deku becoming 300 times stronger in a few months ridiculous?

It is quite ridiculous for several reasons, first because three months later after they entered school, Aizawa states they barely got any stronger, even though they have fought countless villains and others students between that period of time, so what makes you think that they could become hundreds of times stronger with three more months of training? This goes against all logic in the series.

One or two weeks of training after Kirishima's fight with Rappa, he still doesn't think he can take hits from him, stating that he wants to keep training so he could one day become strong enough to withstand attacks as powerful as Rappa.

The second reason, which you have been ignoring because you know very well that it completely contradicts your logic, is Deku's Full Cowl remaining with almost the same amount of power through half a year, even though according to you, Deku has become hundreds of times stronger in this period of time.

And let's not mention the many other arguments of Kingofwolves999 that you have conveniently chosen to ignore in order to continue stretching this discussion ad infinitum.

I also find it ridiculous how according to you, base Deku only needs to be 9-B to control 5%, but in order to control 8%, which he himself states is only a small increase (backed up by our calcs), he needs to be hundreds, maybe even thousands of times stronger than before.

Your flawed logic doesn't make any sense.

 

[Therefir]

By the way, in his fight with Bakugo, Deku states that the difference between 5% and 8% is small.

According to our calculations, the difference between these two percentages is 1.7 times.

Since that's what Deku considers small, it would make his base form around 2.8 tons, a little bit above baseline High 8-C.

So why don't we just follow the words of Deku himself, and put an end to this pointless discussion once and for all?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't like the idea of base Deku downscaling from 5% - but if we had to do it I'd rather it be to 8-C+ than High 8-C.

Deku, without any kind of Quirk at all having the same level of power as Bakugo's biggest explosions in the early part of the series... That's just all kinds of wrong.

 

[ElixirBlue]

It's probably why the teachers never view Bakugo as a risk to the students despite his explosions and very bad temper.

 

[Therefir]

I don't like the idea of base Deku downscaling from 5% - but if we had to do it I'd rather it be to 8-C+ than High 8-C.

Deku, without any kind of Quirk at all having the same level of power as Bakugo's biggest explosions in the early part of the series... That's just all kinds of wrong.

I am fine with 8-C+, but Bakugo's biggest explosions are High 8-C+ and not just High 8-C.