Mew and Mewtwo AP revision

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Saikou's an actual argument.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

"So why is this an Outlier for Mew / Mewtwo when their only feats are casual and they are at their current ranking solely through scaling?"

I didn't say anything about this feat being anomalous I just wanted the scans for these feats along with replying to cal about how GB can be a far higher level than what his feats suggest.

"@AMM. Isn't that the point I'm making though?"

I interpreted your point wrong then I guess.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Problem is, none of them who are named scale. (Except Yveltal)

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I agree with saikou here,though i will wait for more arguments.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Mewtwo is High 6-A for fighting Zygarde if I'm not wrong, so he'd still scale to some of them.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Edited comment lol. However, the gen 6 trio are scaled by being a power source.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

But almost all of the weapon's power was used for High 6-A. And Mewtwo fought Deoxys, who fought Rayquaza...

 

[The_Everlasting]

Characters who scale from Mewtwo:

-Xerneas

-Yveltal

-Zygarde

-Diance

-Mega Rayquaza

-Deoxys

-Darkrai

-Cresselia

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Am I missing something? Because it looks like you're just picking a stage and then going to it as opposed to it being any indication that Mew creates a pocket dimension which houses dozens upon dozens of stars?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It only houses Mew, and it appears out of nowhere.

 

[PaChi2]

I agree with this being used. Like, mew has 0 feats aside from fighting Mewtwo. You cant dismiss its only feats by calling it outliers.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

I agree with this being used. Like, mew has 0 feats aside from fighting Mewtwo. You cant dismiss its only feats by calling it outliers.

Your forgetting that his feat is that he is equal to mewtwo. And mewtwo and anyone he scales to are all in the tier 6 range. All evidence points to this being a massive outlier.

@Cal sill not explicit evidence mew creates this. A statement of mewtwo being responsible for its creation would be needed for you to get anywhere with your claim.

 

[Grudgeman1706]

Also the "feat" in question would be 4-B or A not high 4-C which makes even more of an outlier.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

"It only houses Mew, and it appears out of nowhere."

Not good enough evidence, you have no statements of anything indicating Mew creating it and on top of that rely on assumptions you know you cannot prove. For example, how do you know that this space only houses Mew? Why can it not be that they're just somewhere outside of Earth?

With your logic, I can argue Mario within Mario Kart summons a pocket dimension of a solar system scale because when you select the stage it only has him in it and that this space you're in just pops out of nowhere.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The High 4-C feat is from a manga and it is a dimension which Mew created. And Cal previously explained more about why it is likely that Mew created the Rainbow Cloud before.

 

[PaChi2]

Then scaling the others to mewtwo is the problem here, not mew itself.

Tier 4: Mew and Mewtwo.

Tier 6: whoever used to scale to mewtwo.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

https://youtu.be/DUoXqCGNa1Y?t=151

Here's the actual proof.

"Hmm... After looking at these six pictures, I've noticed that the Signs are just like the six constellations that can be seen from Pokémon Island! That's the key to this mistery! Now it all makes sense! It's the sky! Rainbow Cloud, floating in the sky, is the secret course! Someone in the clouds must have created the PKMN Signs"

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Alright, thats way more definitive.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Shadow Mewtwo has an interesting feat, which consists of creating a dimension with constellations:

Dark Colosseum (Final)

A mysterious subspace rift created by Shadow Mewtwo's power. The ominous force of the Shadow Synergy Stone sits heavy in the air.

Dark Colosseum

A mysterious subspace rift created by Shadow Mewtwo's power. It is a cold, inorganic place with Shadow Synergy Stone shards visible in the background.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6JhAwIGKFI

0:29

2:32

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

For that Shadow Mewtwo one, you can argue he creates like a fold through space-time which allows you to get to a place within the universe filled with stars as opposed to him creating a dimension filled with stars.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Well, the stars were not present before Mewtwo began to create the stadium, also before fleeing, Mewtwo destroys the stage along with his strange firmament, so the feat seems to be reliable.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So now we have potentially three tier 4 feats... Nice. I think a full composite tab might be necessary for Mewtwo as with Darkrai. He has the feats, but from a game that is of dubious canon (Pokémon Snap and Poképark). Darkrai had also three Low 2-C feats, 1 from "main" continuity (the movie), two from spin-off. This is the exact same situation, but instead of the anime, the manga.

For Low 2-C Mewtwo in Pokémon Mystery Dungeon 2, personally I wouldn't count that, as imo is in the same league as Lucas/Dawn encountering and fighting Arceus. If the event was connected to any of the story's events, then sure. Like Mewtwo fighting with Team ACT in the first MD. Tho' that's my take on it.

 

[Dark649]

A composite tab for Low 2-C Mew and Mewtwo might be considered since they fought the protagonists after they defeated Dialga, but it's a controversial upgrade like giving High 4-C tabbers for the legendaries like Deoxys that scales to manga Mewtwo. Lucas/Dawn fighting and defeating Giratina, Dialga, Palkia and Arceus is a Massive PIS since they should be to casually erase them.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The problem with that is, again, those were special missions with no bearing to the plot at all. And would also be outliers to them, since is the only feat they have in that range. (I think...) If the missions were acknowledged in the story, then maybe. Is like giving every pokémon that fought the protagonists tier 2 since, well... They fought the protagonists. But again, this is only my opinion on that matter. I agree with the Tier 4 stuff but only in a full composite key if is too much controversial to be in the main one. (Like Darkrai's)

 

[Dark649]

Yes, those missions were considered as optional, but Mewtwo literally sends a letter to the player to fight him.

 

[NeoZex6399]

It was stated in the games that Dialga and Palkia only want to test the player, therefore it can be deduced that they never fought at full power.

 

[Dark649]

They fought [The Protagonist, Partner, Grovyle, Dusknoir and Shiny Celebi] Primal Dialga, which was is in a Berserker State and was unable to control himself.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about diamond and pearl.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Just because a mission in a game is optional doesn't mean it can't be used. A lot of Final Fantasy summons are optional yet we apply them to the character profiles when they have feats. Game profiles are for the game characters at their best.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So... The regis, team charm and the guild would scale, no? Because those weren't optional. Even Bidoof could fight Jirachi (a bloodlusted one at that).

Edit: And that same Jirachi later challenged the protagonists.

 

[Dark649]

Low 2-C Bidoof asks Jirachi to rule the world.....

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Let's not go that far. We should first handle the tier 4 stuff. What is our take on that? Do we accept it? I personally don't see an issue with it. And are we gonna do High 4-C or 4-A?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Low 2-C Bidoof asks Jirachi to rule the world.....

Pokémon Rusty 2.0 ovo

@Dragon

Well, if the Shadow Mewtwo one is legit, I think it would be 4-A

 

[Bepo4151]

This has less support than star level Kaguya

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't see how, seeing as the feats actually exist. Star level Kaguya came from misinterpretations and wrong translations.

 

[Bepo4151]

Kaguyas creating of her worlds was not a misinterpretation or mistranslation of anything, stop spreading misinformation. It was rejected on the grounds of being an outlier, which in all honesty has more business being upgraded then this Mewtwo. Where they are consistently portrayed in the tier 6 range. Naruto has characters weaker than Kaguya perform small planet feats and it is still an outlier. I suggest you read the discussions rules page matt as it is clearly listed there for being an outlier.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@Bepo

If you search those discussions about Kaguya you would see that it was both things.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There are actually three feats on this level for Mew and Mewtwo, so even on the grounds of it being an outlier there's less things to support, and this is ignoring that Pokémon as a franchise has way more high-tier feats than Naruto.

I do read the Discussion Page, would prefer if you weren't so aggressive.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Bepo Aggressive for no reason. Kaguya has nothing to do with this. This is the same reasoning Cal was berated for earlier. Naruto and Pokemon are two different verses. And we will judge these feats by a Pokemon standpoint. Not a Naruto or Digimon or whatever verse standpoint. I would prefer if you all stayed civil and not suddenly snap at one another. Pokemon discussions should not always end up shitstorms.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I do remember there being a point of contention with the Naruto translations, with some implying that Kaguya created the dimensions while others simply implied that she teleported them to pocket dimensions.