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Megami Tensei General Discussion Thread

Uuber1 said:
Because the main source of the lore, the clubbook, pretty much frames her as just an alien.
Click to expand...
It's due to her scaling above Erebus, who, at the very least, scales to Kadath, and Nyx herself still managed to give Makoto Yuki with The Universe Arcana (which itself should scale above any of his Personas) trouble.

Uuber1 said:
So cognition existed before Nyx crashed on the Earth?
Click to expand...
Well, yeah. Existence existed before Nyx crashed into the Earth. The CU is reality itself. The entire casuality of Nyx's collision with the Earth is paradoxical, but Megami Tensei is no stranger to that. I bought up that Nyx is "at least partially" Cognitive in nature because the same feats of acausality shown by Demons and the cosmology itself should be applicable to her.
 
Lukewoesal007 said:
It's due to her scaling above Erebus, who, at the very least, scales to Kadath,
Click to expand...
Why does Erebus scale to Kadath?

Lukewoesal007 said:
Well, yeah. Existence existed before Nyx crashed into the Earth. The CU is reality itself.
Click to expand...
Seems contradictory to this:

The waves of Nyx’s psyche, which spread across the planet, stood in harsh contradiction with the life already existing on it and threatened to eliminate said life entirely. Of course, the still very primitive, survival-instinct driven lifeforms of earth made attempts to resist these 'Waves of Death’. As a result of this, the lifeforms of earth entered a period of explosive evolution, and developed coping-strategies to resist Nyx, weapons against her. The crown of this development was a plane of shared information between all living beings on earth, the so-called “Collective Unconscious”.
Click to expand...
But you did say Megaten is no stranger to this type of stuff.
 
Uuber1 said:
Why does Erebus scale to Kadath?
Click to expand...
Scailing beyond Lucifer, who rules over the Kether, the highest point of the Aztiluth world, which was exepted as being another name for Kadath (different names for the same place).
Uuber1 said:
Seems contradictory to this:


But you did say Megaten is no stranger to this type of stuff.
Click to expand...
The collective unconscious is completely beyond time, and therefore causality as a whole.
 
ThatBoiRick said:
Scailing beyond Lucifer, who rules over the Kether, the highest point of the Aztiluth world, which was exepted as being another name for Kadath (different names for the same place).
Click to expand...
Problem is Erebus was described by Elizabeth to be strong enough to tear down mountains. Which was treated as impress for a final boss and not something like Erebus can destroy infinite spatial dimensions are some shit

Lukewoesal007 said:
It's due to her scaling above Erebus, who, at the very least, scales to Kadath, and Nyx herself still managed to give Makoto Yuki with The Universe Arcana (which itself should scale above any of his Personas) trouble.
Click to expand...
Similar to the point above, Club book also describes her power as be able to destroy planets which treats it as impressive.
 
Do we have any standardization or tier-grouping for lesser demons?

I'd hesitate to use a mobile gacha game's scaling, but Dx2 for example, puts things like Gremlin & Koropokkur(u) at 1 Star in the typical 1 to 5 Star rating such games tend to (ab)use.

Would we use that? Or are there other resources helping us sort the tiers of the fodder tiers?
Blogs & such? Scaling chains? Feat gatherings?
I've seen estimates that there's like, 1000+ distinctly named species across the whole franchise, after all.
 
Imaginym said:
Do we have any standardization or tier-grouping for lesser demons?

I'd hesitate to use a mobile gacha game's scaling, but Dx2 for example, puts things like Gremlin & Koropokkur(u) at 1 Star in the typical 1 to 5 Star rating such games tend to (ab)use.

Would we use that? Or are there other resources helping us sort the tiers of the fodder tiers?
Blogs & such? Scaling chains? Feat gatherings?
I've seen estimates that there's like, 1000+ distinctly named species across the whole franchise, after all.
Click to expand...
Demons from ~Tier 9 to Low 2-C are considered "low-tier", at least as per the Cognitive Physiology page. The only resource to scale the low-tiers is their own compendium entries and/or story feats.
 
Uuber1 said:
Problem is Erebus was described by Elizabeth to be strong enough to tear down mountains. Which was treated as impress for a final boss and not something like Erebus can destroy infinite spatial dimensions are some shit
Click to expand...
Do you just...interpret everything you read with the most literal understanding possible? Likening Erebus' stature or strength to something which can destroy mountains is merely figurative language to describe the ferociousness of Erebus in that particular scene. Nothing about Elizabeth's narration implies Erebus is impressive to her in any way, especially when she literally blocks Erebus' attack with no effort and proceeds to stomp the thing. I feel like you're being purposefully obtuse with these "anti-feats".
 
Uuber1 said:
Similar to the point above, Club book also describes her power as be able to destroy planets which treats it as impimpressive
Click to expand...
"Treats as impressive?" When? They only stated the facts, that she was a star eater. There was nothing to suggest that being the limit to her power. Especially considering in the same book they explain the fact that her body doesn't adhere to the normal laws of physics at all.

As a matter of fact it was also stated shadows were fragments of Nyx, said shadows having the innate ability to control the fabric of space-time in its entirety. In what way did the book ever suggest eating stars was her limit?
 
Lukewoesal007 said:
Demons from ~Tier 9 to Low 2-C are considered "low-tier", at least as per the Cognitive Physiology page. The only resource to scale the low-tiers is their own compendium entries and/or story feats.
Click to expand...
There are Tier 9 demons? Which are they & why, though? Just because Compendium Entries?

Also, no Tier 10 nor Tier 11 Demons?
 
Imaginym said:
There are Tier 9 demons? Which are they & why, though? Just because Compendium Entries?

Also, no Tier 10 nor Tier 11 Demons?
Click to expand...
even pixies are capable of taking down buildings or vaporizing a lham dearg
 
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XatorNova said:
even pixies are capable of taking down buildings or vaporizing a lham dearg
Click to expand...
Surely there are weaker species than Pixies, though, right?
Also, forgive me, but I don't know SMT that well. (Looking it up, lham dearg is a species that takes the form of someone from Scottish mythology?)

Also, basis?

Sorry if anyone minds my questions. I understand if they seem kinda dumb.
 
Imaginym said:
Surely there are weaker species than Pixies, though, right?
Also, forgive me, but I don't know SMT that well. (Looking it up, lham dearg is a species that takes the form of someone from Scottish mythology?)

Also, basis?

Sorry if anyone minds my questions. I understand if they seem kinda dumb.
Click to expand...
Pixies are some of the weakest species, sometimes even the weakest, as they are usually the very first demon that the player is able to get.

I completely misremembered the feat. It was to move a building sized boulder. It happens here, where the Pixie states that she has moved the boulder so that no one gets in:

When killing an enemy with Agi, the enemy is vaporized, regardless of the point of the game. Lham Dearg is the weakest demon in SMT4 alongside the Slime.
 
I don’t like commenting on these, but I’d highly advise just ignoring Uuber from that point forward.

He is quite clearly disguising curiosity and ignorance with an obvious and poorly masked desire to downgrade the verse, and overall just lacks a general understanding of it all.

From his two deleted anti-feat CRTs, he lists things that just outright don’t happen (such as Philemon creating the new universe in P2:IS, even though it was explicitly the IS cast that does), completely cuts context from things (Akechi sending police after Joker, despite knowing the Phantom Thieves outright don’t attack humans, much less kill them as part of their moral code), throwing things at the wall (using feats at the beginning of P3 to somehow contest 1-A ratings), or just outright lying (stating that Maruki’s plan to overwrite existence was in reference to solely the earth). He’s just another Bunkerman, Urshani, MastaWhite, Pizzabox, etc, who spew the same rhetoric and don’t have any interest in contributing anything.

If you have any questions or want to help with profiles, just start a conversation with me, I’ll link you the discord, since there’s no harm in letting people who’re actually interested in aiding us.

I have no interest in any further response he might make to this, and neither should any of you.
 
XatorNova said:
Pixies are some of the weakest species, sometimes even the weakest, as they are usually the very first demon that the player is able to get.

I completely misremembered the feat. It was to move a building sized boulder. It happens here, where the Pixie states that she has moved the boulder so that no one gets in:

When killing an enemy with Agi, the enemy is vaporized, regardless of the point of the game. Lham Dearg is the weakest demon in SMT4 alongside the Slime.
Click to expand...

Hunh. How's it determined Lham Dearg's the weakest in SMT4? Because acquired early?
 
Imaginym said:
There are Tier 9 demons? Which are they & why, though? Just because Compendium Entries?
Click to expand...
Don't take what I said entirely literally. I was just approximating the range of tiers the "low-tier" encompasses. I think the "weakest" feat displayed by a Demon was Pixie lifting a boulder in SMTIVA, which was calc'd to be 8-B. Most Demons should naturally scale above this feat, even if their compendium entries might otherwise put them at a lower level, since Pixie is one of the weakest Demons in the entire verse.

Imaginym said:
Also, no Tier 10 nor Tier 11 Demons?
Click to expand...
Not to my recollection, no.

Imaginym said:
Surely there are weaker species than Pixies, though, right?
Click to expand...
It'd be hard to tell because levels are so inconsistent between games (hence why we don't use level scaling directly). Even if you want to argue Slimes or even Lham Dearg are weaker than Pixies, it's more likely they'd downscale from 8-B than dip into Tier 9.

XatorNova said:
When killing an enemy with Agi, the enemy is vaporized, regardless of the point of the game. Lham Dearg is the weakest demon in SMT4 alongside the Slime.
Click to expand...
The issue with the Lham Dearg vaporization feat is that it was calc'd under the assumption Lham Dearg is made out of physical matter and bound to the rules of conventional physics, when that assertion is now quite heavily contradicted by our current Cognitive Physiology page.
 
Lukewoesal007 said:
The issue with the Lham Dearg vaporization feat is that it was calc'd under the assumption Lham Dearg is made out of physical matter and bound to the rules of conventional physics, when that assertion is now quite heavily contradicted by our current Cognitive Physiology page.
Click to expand...
Ah, I was just thinking today after I posted it that "wait a sec, but demons aren't physical, so the vaporization feat is probably null given that there is no mass" and was about to ask, thank you for the preemptive response 😅
 
Lukewoesal007 said:
Do you just...interpret everything you read with the most literal understanding possible? Likening Erebus' stature or strength to something which can destroy mountains is merely figurative language to describe the ferociousness of Erebus in that particular scene.
Click to expand...
Yes, but this character is tiered as 1-A. Elizabeth describing Erebus as being able to tear down mountains mean you can loosely scale Erebus off of this.
ThatBoiRick said:
"Treats as impressive?" When? They only stated the facts, that she was a star eater. There was nothing to suggest that being the limit to her power. Especially considering in the same book they explain the fact that her body doesn't adhere to the normal laws of physics at all.
Click to expand...
"Nyx would then return to being an existence capable of destroying whole planets, only befitting the name “Star Eater”. It’s making me sad just to think of it."

From the P3 clubbook. This like the point above, you can loosely scale Nyx off this. We can assume this is a limit because it treats it as impress especially for something that is the strongest in Persona.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Atlus hasn’t delayed a game since P5. That was nearly a decade ago. I think you’re just exaggerating.
Click to expand...
"Are you Atlus because you delay your video games, or do you delay your video games because you're Atlus?"


Atlus: "Nah, I'd release!"

As the Atlus intern pressed the release button before schedule, he did not realize two key things.
The first was that in a 1v1 of video games, you always bet on Persona
And the 2nd was that throughout the RPGs and Visual Novels, Atlus was the fradulent one.
 
Look at mask face on in Nahobino new content with purple clothing

Edit: I don't work YouTube link.

Edit2: but really bad they're broken link
 
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434731466_2111133675920568_8442567817916360869_n.jpg


Can't wait to see Vengeance delaying the verse revision for another 6 months. With this new look tho, it's worth it.
 
I wonder what the new final boss could be. I doubt it's going to be Matter Lucifer again, but who could it be without repeating
 
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