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Megami Tensei General Discussion Thread

Is EMMA demiurge above maruki ? It was a threat to even the velvet room and was merging tree of knowledge with the world.
Definitely not. Harming the velvet room isn't that great of a feat, considering it's a 5D space. In fact the quest has you fight beings as weak as Seth and Black Frost (5D) to absolute killing machines like Mara, Metatron, and the Reaper (1-A). All of whom Levenza were afraid of.

Merging the tree of knowledge alone isn't enough to get EMMA above Maruki
 
Definitely not. Harming the velvet room isn't that great of a feat, considering it's a 5D space. In fact the quest has you fight beings as weak as Seth and Black Frost (5D) to absolute killing machines like Mara, Metatron, and the Reaper (1-A). All of whom Levenza were afraid of.

Merging the tree of knowledge alone isn't enough to get EMMA above Maruki
It’s more then enough to get her above maruki, Maruki wasn’t even considered a threat to the velvet room by the way. All the beings were amped up by EMMA massively, all palace bosses(way stronger than anything they’ve fought before according to Morgana and velvet room attendants) she was merging the tree and could completely control it to warp reality as she saw fit. none of the other bosses actually ended up merging anything with reality which she had already started doing.from your reply I doubt you’ve played the game tbh.
 
It’s more then enough to get her above maruki, Maruki wasn’t even considered a threat to the velvet room by the way. All the beings were amped up by EMMA massively, all palace bosses(way stronger than anything they’ve fought before according to Morgana and velvet room attendants) she was merging the tree and could completely control it to warp reality as she saw fit. none of the other bosses actually ended up merging anything with reality which she had already started doing.from your reply I doubt you’ve played the game tbh.
💀 💀. Is him not being considered a threat just that he was never mentioned to be so or that he was brushed off as fodder by like Igor or Lavenza? Because I don't remember the latter to happen at all. Not merging reality also isn't a reason to say Maruki isn't stronger.
 
Also EMMA being stronger than any of the palace bosses shouldn't even apply to Maruki since P5R came after strikers and you might as well not consider P5R canon to strikers due to this. Note I've never played strikers but I'm going off the arguments said.
 
💀 💀. Is him not being considered a threat just that he was never mentioned to be so or that he was brushed off as fodder by like Igor or Lavenza? Because I don't remember the latter to happen at all. Not merging reality also isn't a reason to say Maruki isn't stronger.
What ? She was casually making normal humans monarchs with a palace,

Stated to be nothing like what they’ve faced before, like bro extremely weak EMMA was creating duplicates of joker that were equal in strength to him, mere shadows she created were strong enough to destroy the velvet room, . Just off of this maruki seems like a pushover tbh even if you claim he’s slightly stronger.
 
Also EMMA being stronger than any of the palace bosses shouldn't even apply to Maruki since P5R came after strikers and you might as well not consider P5R canon to strikers due to this. Note I've never played strikers but I'm going off the arguments said.
My point is she’s stronger than anything maruki could’ve been and she has numerous impressive feats to show for it
 
P5R and P5S aren’t even in the same timeline; P5S follows up on the original P5 game

And I have no idea where you got the idea that Maruki is weaker than EMMA because he didn’t threaten the Velvet Room, or whatever you are claiming.

By that logic, Maruki would be weaker than Yaldabaoth, even though it’s stated by Morgana that he’s stronger than the latter.
 
P5R and P5S aren’t even in the same timeline; P5S follows up on the original P5 game

And I have no idea where you got the idea that Maruki is weaker than EMMA because he didn’t threaten the Velvet Room, or whatever you are claiming.

By that logic, Maruki would be weaker than Yaldabaoth, even though it’s stated by Morgana that he’s stronger than the latter.
literally wasn’t my only argument and I do not gaf about timelines never mentioned it did I ? having control over the tree of knowledge was my basis for scaling higher than maruki. Read before you respond next time okay ?
 
literally wasn’t my only argument and I do not gaf about timelines never mentioned it did I ?
The claims you brought up of X Character being stronger than anything they’ve fought so far in Strikers is completely irrelevant to P5R, since they’re two different timelines, so the Strikers cast didn’t even experience the events of the Third Semester. Ergo, those claims don’t apply to Maruki.

And how exactly does making normal humans a monarch prove EMMA is above Maruki? That’s literally a Low 2-C feat for the creation of the Jail itself.
 
Doesn’t matter. Strikers and P5 are the cannon games. P5R is just an additional dlc
First of all, I was wondering if they meant the release dates of the game. Don't care if it doesn't matter.

Secondly, P5R isn't just DLC, it's canon, since everything in Persona is, etc.
 
The claims you brought up of X Character being stronger than anything they’ve fought so far in Strikers is completely irrelevant to P5R, since they’re two different timelines, so the Strikers cast didn’t even experience the events of the Third Semester. Ergo, those claims don’t apply to Maruki.

And how exactly does making normal humans a monarch prove EMMA is above Maruki? That’s literally a Low 2-C feat for the creation of the Jail itself.
Whatever, monarch’s that could easily contend with joker by the way, emphasis on that to be specific, I’m too lazy to find but there’s literally quest lines on how joker needs to use outside advantages to take them down
 
Whatever, monarch’s that could easily contend with joker by the way, emphasis on that to be specific, I’m too lazy to find but there’s literally quest lines on how joker needs to use outside advantages to take them down
Okay? That is relevant to Maruki how? Like I said, P5S and P5R are different timelines, so the Strikers cast didn’t even meet Maruki.

And the P5R cast specifically had to exploit a weakness to take down Maruki, since he was too strong to take down conventionally
 
Okay? That is relevant to Maruki how? Like I said, P5S and P5R are different timelines, so the Strikers cast didn’t even meet Maruki.
Lmao it’s whatever bro I also dgaf if they’re timelines or alternate realities , I ain’t even say anything about the strikers or the monarchs meeting maruki to begin with. It still stands that she had absolute control over the tree of knowledge though so none of the irrelevant things you’ve said changes my stance that she’s comparable to maruki.
 
Lmao it’s whatever bro I also dgaf if they’re timelines or alternate realities , I ain’t even say anything about the strikers or the monarchs meeting maruki to begin with. It still stands that she had absolute control over the tree of knowledge though so none of the irrelevant things you’ve said changes my stance that she’s comparable to maruki.
You’re the one that brought up the claims, but alright
 
Lmao it’s whatever bro I also dgaf if they’re timelines or alternate realities , I ain’t even say anything about the strikers or the monarchs meeting maruki to begin with. It still stands that she had absolute control over the tree of knowledge though so none of the irrelevant things you’ve said changes my stance that she’s comparable to maruki.
Even if you want to interpret Strikers' "Tree of Knowledge" dungeon as the literal Tree of Life from the rest of the franchise, Maruki still scales well above Kether, so, lol.
 
Even if you want to interpret Strikers' "Tree of Knowledge" dungeon as the literal Tree of Life from the rest of the franchise, Maruki still scales well above Kether, so, lol.
Wym interpret, ain’t nothing like that needed, it’s the real deal tree of life they obviously knew what they were doing introducing it to the plot. And she also does, so, lol.
 
Wym interpret, ain’t nothing like that needed, it’s the real deal tree of life they obviously knew what they were doing introducing it to the plot. And she also does, so, lol.
You're using her manipulation of the tree of Knowledge to scale her above Maruki, when the latter scales above the Tree, regardless. Quit giving me and the other people here sass.
 
Isn't it pretty well established that the Wild Cards and especially characters like Maruki, Adachi, etc. far surpass the Velvet Room people and their attendants by the end of their journies? It would feel rather weird for them not to be.
 
Guys, my bad! Turns out, Adam Kadmon is not the same Adam from the Demiurge/Yaldy saga and manipulating the tree doesn’t compare as this Adam was created by Ein Sof, so yeah I agree he's above them. But that doesn't mean Persona 5 royal and Strikers aren't connected I'd argue that Royal was intentionally crafted as the refined original P5 and when Lavenza mentioned a greater threat, she probably meant the first and weaker version of yaldabaoth, since EMMA evolved into a much stronger Demiurge/yaldy. Regarding the much awaited profile revisions for the thieves, I'd suggest using Adam Kadmon as the ultimate power benchmark in their key justifications(p5 boss, p5 strikers boss, p5 royal boss ): Original Yaldy < EMMA Yaldy < Adam Kadmon.
 
where Yog-Sothoth scales in terms of superiority? I'm having trouble figuring out his placement, especially with the Lovecraftian and SMT mix-up. Is he considered above Metatron?
 
where Yog-Sothoth scales in terms of superiority? I'm having trouble figuring out his placement, especially with the Lovecraftian and SMT mix-up. Is he considered above Metatron?
Yog Sogoth is the conceptual equivalent to Brahman.

Brahman holds the entire DDS multiverse as data within itself. Which includes beings like Satan, who scales beyond Beelzebub and Metatron by a considerable margin.
 
Yog Sogoth is the conceptual equivalent to Brahman.

Brahman holds the entire DDS multiverse as data within itself. Which includes beings like Satan, who scales beyond Beelzebub and Metatron by a considerable margin.
So to say they’re the “collective unconscious”? I honestly think that qualifies as high 1a with great will being tier 0 but what do I know. Wait that should mean philemon and Nyarlathotep upscale above right ?

Also to add, in p5 strikers the final boss is situated in a jail named the tree of knowledge and the team have to take down spheres amplifying demiurges dura and abilities, with each one representing the tree of life; chokmah,yetzirah etc. was it just for placing sake or of any significance ?
 
I'm surprised the Great Will ISN'T High 1-A or Tier 0 on here although I've heard something about some SMT revisions in the works for a time
 
So to say they’re the “collective unconscious”? I honestly think that qualifies as high 1a with great will being tier 0 but what do I know. Wait that should mean philemon and Nyarlathotep upscale above right ?
They aren't the entire collective unconscious, just the deifications (and embodiments) of the archetypal world, which is within the CU. The Great will is still far beyond Brahman. As are Philemon and Nyarlethotep far above the great will
 
The Great Reason isn’t Tier 0, let alone the Great Will, especially due to the upcoming new standards. The Great Reason can be surpassed, so it’s automatically disqualified from Tier 0.
 
The Great Reason isn’t Tier 0, let alone the Great Will, especially due to the upcoming new standards. The Great Reason can be surpassed, so it’s automatically disqualified from Tier 0.
The great reason can’t be surpassed, he granted humanity that potential in the first place but no one has so far and it will very likely remain that way. Having potential to surpass something is is entirely different from actual doing so. I see no reasons why he shouldn’t get tier 0
 
So to say they’re the “collective unconscious”? I honestly think that qualifies as high 1a with great will being tier 0 but what do I know. Wait that should mean philemon and Nyarlathotep upscale above right ?

Also to add, in p5 strikers the final boss is situated in a jail named the tree of knowledge and the team have to take down spheres amplifying demiurges dura and abilities, with each one representing the tree of life; chokmah,yetzirah etc. was it just for placing sake or of any significance ?
No one wants to answer my strikers question aye ? Cool.
 
The great reason can’t be surpassed, he granted humanity that potential in the first place but no one has so far and it will very likely remain that way. Having potential to surpass something is is entirely different from actual doing so. I see no reasons why he shouldn’t get tier 0
You just contradicted yourself in the same sentence.

The very fact that the Great Reason COULD be surpassed automatically disqualifies it from Tier 0, doesn’t matter if no one has so far. Hell, Ultima himself said this in the Tier 0/1-A thread
 
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