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Medaka vs Gilgamesh: The Return

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@Monarch

Match still concludes in an hour right? As gargoyle said the reasons voted for Gil winning are pretty iffy. I'd like Ram to elaborate a bit more and confirm it's a realistic win condition. And the void manipulation thing apparently isn't void manipulation so that's scratched out
 
Gil isn't winning here, we got that out of the deal.

The problem now is Gil Vs Bookmaker type 2 seal. I already explained it is not power null and it can't be treated like one, a whole CRT was done on that and it was accepted that Bookmaker is a type 2 seal not a power null @Monarch. So you still lack evidence vs Bookmaker.
 
Above it was already stated that Gil did resist what you'd consider a type 2 seal anyways, and unlike Ajimu, his normal sealing resist covers that sort of sealing as well.
 
Didn't Ajimu let him do it anyways?
 
Wokistan said:
Above it was already stated that Gil did resist what you'd consider a type 2 seal anyways, and unlike Ajimu, his normal sealing resist covers that sort of sealing as well.
Click to expand...
He resisted a type 1 seal that is similar to type 2 seal (explained by you). You never explained that part though. Explain how the seals were similar.
 
Monarch already explained the other one. BB/Moon cell tried to seal his powers, didn't work properly. Also, type 2 sealing and power null are functionally identical, there's no real reason they should be differentiated when it comes to resists. Anyone feel like making a thread on that, because I can't do that right now.
 
I already debunked many times that fact.

Seals work over null resistance in verse.

A whole CRT was done on that.

And they are "seemengly" the same not "functionally" the same. They work differently, have similar results. They still work differently doe.

BB didn't seal his powers, it tried to null him and steal him and steal his powers. No one has mentioned an actual internal seal on his powers. Something that ***** up your heart (like Bookmaker doe).

Also the thread was already done some time ago, but ok we can do it again.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
BB didn't seal his powers, it tried to null him and steal him and steal his powers. No one has mentioned an actual internal seal on his powers. Something that ***** up your heart (like Bookmaker doe).
Click to expand...
Where's your proof on this?
 
John985 said:
Where's your proof on this?
Click to expand...
Monarch said Gil had his powers turned into data and removed. That is power stealing.

Don't use powers or whatever that thing was that was mentioned is Power Nullification.

The actual seal from BB. Type 1 seal.

Life Zero from Medaka Box. Power Null. Not in the same category as Bookmaker.

Card Style from MB is a type 1 seal. Not in the same category as Bookmaker.

Unreasonable Taxiation. Power Stealing. Not in the same category as Bookmaker.

As for the rest:

Book Maker: A Minus copied from Kumagawa, allowing Medaka to impale her foe with a special screw that brings the target's body, spirit, technique, intellect, and talent down to Kumagawa's level. Although the attack itself does virtually no damage, the screw "soils the heart", which can destroy the ambition and drive of most individuals.

An internal type 2 seal. Gil has suffered nothing of the sort.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Who? The only other character I can think of would be the style user that ages people backwards, but thats very indirect.
Click to expand...
there was the style user who used Wrong Conversion, she had existence erasure, in fact her defensive hax erased any form of confrontation at all
 
Monarch Laciel said:
"the power to reopen old wounds" can fall under a lot of powers. All of which Gilgamesh resists. Currently.
The other weapons might share his resistance. Enkidu on the other hand is a Divine Construct, which basically means it's a Divine Spirit, in weapon form, made to fight other Divine Spirits. Divine Spirits are capable of controlling time, causality, events and concepts, and are capable of resisting the same from each other. A Divine Construct would logically have the same resistances.
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I don't really know what power to call her's, other than "the power to reopen old wounds" in fact one of the issues with Minus is that they are specifically meant to defy this kind of analysis (meaning that they defy a greaty "why" or "how." For the in story example, Raff Raffelsa doesn't manipulate microbes, speed up time, force enzymes to break things down, or any of that. it just inexplicably rots stuff in 'deffience to all logic.')

It not causality manipulation or time manipulation because even the wounds that Kumagawa made nothing came back (which he basically made never happen to begin with and erase the cause and effect). Its not conceptual manipulation, but it would be pretty cool if it was lol. Not even sure what event manipulation is lol. I'm not exactly sure what you could call it other than maybe damage manipulation, but that's so not specific that its basically the same as saying the ability to deal damage in non conventional ways
 
Other than Medaka there's only one other person I can think of who has a ability like that, it's a pretty unique ability
 
I've seen timehax used for the same effect before, but not it as its own ability.
 
Is there any headway being made in this thread at all? Because I keep seeing this in the forum activity, but whenever I come back, nothing has moved on.
 
@Sir Ovens


Because fire think that bookmaker would work on Gil, even though Gil already resist Mooncell who is much stronger than Bookmaker.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Monarch said Gil had his powers turned into data and removed. That is power stealing.

Don't use powers or whatever that thing was that was mentioned is Power Nullification.

The actual seal from BB. Type 1 seal.

Life Zero from Medaka Box. Power Null. Not in the same category as Bookmaker.

Card Style from MB is a type 1 seal. Not in the same category as Bookmaker.

Unreasonable Taxiation. Power Stealing. Not in the same category as Bookmaker.

As for the rest:

Book Maker: A Minus copied from Kumagawa, allowing Medaka to impale her foe with a special screw that brings the target's body, spirit, technique, intellect, and talent down to Kumagawa's level. Although the attack itself does virtually no damage, the screw "soils the heart", which can destroy the ambition and drive of most individuals.

An internal type 2 seal, which quite literally soils the heart. Gil has suffered nothing of the sort.
Click to expand...
@John985 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is my proof that it's not the same.
 
Grace has ended so this should be closed and the adjustments to the profiles should be made. Unless people think Gil wins via BFR
 
Aizenishere said:
Grace has ended so this should be closed and the adjustments to the profiles should be made. Unless people think Gil wins via BFR
Click to expand...
Gil doesn't win via BFR. Already debunked even by the side who votes for Gil.

And the best argument vs Bookmaker is "it's the same as power null" which was done in a previous thread and deduced that that is not the case. Gil currently still loses.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
And the best argument vs Bookmaker is "it's the same as power null" which was done in a previous thread and deduced that that is not the case. Gil currently still loses.
Click to expand...


No one agreed with that though.
 
John985 said:
No one agreed with that though.
Click to expand...
Ugh...it's not a matter of "agree or not". It was already agreed upon in a previous thread with the mods. You can't disagree if u wanted to. So treating Bookmaker the same way as a power null would go against what has already been accepted, so no. You can't do that.
 
The void manipulation was debunked BFR is still a very real option people can vote for tho I believe the people that changed to Gil for BFR changed it back.
 
Ugh...it's not a matter of "agree or not". It was already agreed upon in a previous thread with the mods. You can't disagree if u wanted to. So treating Bookmaker the same way as a power null would go against what has already been accepted, so no. You can't do that.

Link this thread please I want to give it a read
 
Aizenishere said:
The void manipulation was debunked BFR is still a very real option people can vote for tho I believe the people that changed to Gil for BFR changed it back.
Click to expand...
Even monarch said that BFR won't work. We already explained, All Fiction nulls any try Gil has at beating Medaka.

Now the thread...it's pretty cancerous and it's pretty nasty and confusing, though if u really wanna try it despite what goes on there, do give it a try. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1675052

Though by the end of the deal Ant agrees upon Bookmaker being a type 2 seal.
 
I wasn't saying its not a seal, I was saying that we should lump type 2 seal resist in with pnull resist because they're basically the same thing. Hell, lots of power nullification is described in an almost identical manner.
 
Wokistan said:
I wasn't saying its not a seal, I was saying that we should lump type 2 seal resist in with pnull resist because they're basically the same thing. Hell, lots of power nullification is described in an almost identical manner.
Click to expand...
Not the case though. As i already explained, that doesn't apply to Medaka Box verse, so you can't apply that change via "sounding similar". Sealing and Power Null differ way too much in Medaka Box. So we can't lump them in sorry.

Also again, it's an internal seal that affects the heart. Gil has never tasted anything like that so we can't say "well he could resist it". He has no showings of negating an internal seal.
 
That can just be considered as Kumagawa bypassing someone's resist. That actually generaly makes him fare better. BB's law manip has the capacity to seal powers and conceptual parts of your being like that, didn't work on Gil. I'll make the thread later, unless anyone else wants to.
 
Wokistan said:
That can just be considered as Kumagawa bypassing someone's resist. That actually generaly makes him fare better. BB's law manip has the capacity to seal powers and conceptual parts of your being like that, didn't work on Gil. I'll make the thread later, unless anyone else wants to.
Click to expand...
It was never an internal seal. And from what i hear it wasn't a seal at all.
 
You said it yourself in the thread.

Well they do acomplish the same thing though they work differently. The point is that you need resistance to sealing to resist type 2 sealing, and resistance to power null for the other.

BB Has it and Gil Resist.
 
BB's is accomplished through converting powers to data and relocating them.

Bookmaker is done via internally soiling the victim's heart to alter their capabilities without any actual relocation involved.

Those sound like two completely different methods so I believe in bookmaker working, so I'm tentatively switching my vote over to Medaka unless the BFR-gument proves convincing Ea-nough
 
John985 said:
You said it yourself in the thread.
Well they do acomplish the same thing though they work differently. The point is that you need resistance to sealing to resist type 2 sealing, and resistance to power null for the other.

BB Has it and Gil Resist.
Click to expand...
"Work differntly" part is really important. U need a car to cross 10 km quickly, but climber equipment to cross a mountain. So no. They acomplish what is seemengly the same thing, different ways of doing so. That's like saying kill via stabbing and death manipulation are the same thing cus they both arrive at the same conclusion of "death". Again, no. It's a type 2 seal, requires it's own immunity, how many times do i have to say that? It was accepted in the thread, don't push it any further, this is already long enough as it is.
 
ThisIsMySwagPack said:
BB can lock abilities via powerful Law manipulation. Gil resists.
Click to expand...
Exact mechanics? Oh right those mechanics are not the same as Bookmaker's type 2 sealing which in an internal seal. So null point.

Idk why this is still going, it was like the first point of the debate which was saying "Gil doesn't resist type 2 seal, but power null and that other stuff". It was already established that he doesn't resist bookmaker specifically, now that i showed u proof of acceptance, it's not gonna change to "gil resist type 2 seal cus we can't have him lose".
 
But these abilities are locked through using law manip to convert them into data and transfer them out of the body and potentially into herself, simply moving them rather than actually making them useless.

Bookmaker just renders them inert within the opponent's body without moving them.
 
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