Medaka vs Gilgamesh: The Return

[Firephoenixearl]

That is a much better point than power null + T1S = T2S tbh. But ok i'll explain it.

Having your everything being sealed means everything is still with you. Your body, your sould, your will to fight, your intellect, your talent, your skill, your resistances (you get the point) everything is together but it's somewhere else. So it is a seal to your physical body that holds your skills (which is type 1 sealing). Type 2 Sealing instead is, your body is unaffected. If i use a T2S on you, you will still be in ur chair reading this, though you will be unable to do anything to counter it, because you HAVE nothing. Having parts of your stuff sealed is much worse than having everything sealed. Imagine this, which is harder to escape from:

1. You are at the bottom of a REALLY deep well. You are just as good as you would be in your normal day to day life. Though you are located in a very deep well that is fairly hard to escape from, you also have some handy equipment, let's say a kind of knife or other stuff that can help you get up.

2. You are an immortal being (can't do this example without it). There are 7 different wells. In each of them part of you is located. Your head, each of your limbs , your body and the same equipment as example one are in different wells. Will it be harder or easier for you to get each of your body parts out of the well?

Ofc 2 is harder because you have nothing to help you, while in example 1 you still have your stuff to help you with.

That was my 1st part of the proof. The 2nd one is Bookmaker working on people who have resistance to type 1 sealing. And it also working much differently than them. Sealing let's say Ajimu in a type 1 seal is futile with 13 quadrillion skills u never know what she has in store, though what if instead of sealing all of Ajimu we just seal her 13 quadrillion skills, without which she is complete fodder.

And the 3rd proof is Bookmaker bypassing Power Nullification as well as it specifically calling Bookmaker a type 2 seal.

 

[Wokistan]

The thing is, either way you're resisting the forcible relocation of something. If your entire being resists such nonconsensual movement, there's no reason individual aspects should not. Maybe Ajimu doesn't resist both, but from what monarch said, Gil should resist both anyways. Type 2 sealing definitely has overlap in the resistances needed with either power null or type 1 sealing, but its definitely not just some isolated ability that ignores resistances for being worded slightly different. I may make a thread about type 2 and power null a little later.

 

[Wokistan]

Also I don't really think you're allowed to use Ajimu as proof of anything in any way, due to her existing for the whole plot>abilities and powers concept of Medaka Box, which isn't how battles go on this wiki. Its likely Ajimu had her abilities sealed because the plot says so, rather than that being meant to really demonstrate anything about Kumagawa's book maker, and by extention Medaka.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's not allowed to use her in debates. So saying stuff like: Medaka is stronger than Hanten at the end of the series so she is by default > The Living Tribunal cus Ajimu should be of a higher tier than The Living Tribunal. U know, stuff like that. I don't find anything wrong with saying this: Ajimu isn't even bothered by something on All Fiction's level but get owned by Bookmaker, so Bookmaker > All Fiction. (It's not plot convinience btw since Ajimu stated in a data book thingy that Bookmaker was truly able of affecting her).

Second thing is. People who find resistances to both type 1 sealing and power null at the same time still fail to resist Bookmaker and it is specifically said that Bookmaker is a type 2 sealing even in verse (in a verse where power null and type 1 sealing are a thing, they didn't call it power null, but always sealing). And as i said because you can resist getting physically sealed doesn't mean you can resist getting statistically and conceptually sealed. That's not how it works (and Medaka Box shows this difference fairly clearly, i don't believe it can be applied as being the same in versus battles if they make a clear difference between the 2).

Moreover you can't just add extentions to his resistances. He has never encountered something even remotely similar to Bookmaker (let alone on it's level of sealing), nor was it ever given any intel that he would be able to resist BM's kind of sealing, it cannot be argued that he resists.

 

[Wokistan]

Does ajimu resist both to begin with, or just the first? If she would normally have resisted type 2, then its a matter of what the best sealing Gil's resisted is. If not, then it wouldn't work because Nasuverse doesn't treat it that way. I personally wouldn't have an issue with the example you used above for using Ajimu in that way since it doesn't involve stuff like her crazy statements, but I'm still fairly sure it can't be considered. Guess you can ask a staff when one comes back to the thread.

 

[John985]

It's because in the Far Side of the moon, Gil was Both Sealed and Power Null at the same time. That's why he got Resistance.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It's because in the Far Side of the moon, Gil was Both Sealed and Power Null at the same time. That's why he got Resistance.

Same thing would apply to Ajimu's resistances, which were still affected by Bookmaker.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I may do a Q&A thread on it after this.

Also Medaka still treats type 2 sealing differently than Natsu. Bookmaker would be WAY above Gil's league of resistance anyway. And what Gil has resisted wouldn't apply to type 2 sealing on Medaka's book, which would be a problem. Style's seal is a type 1 seal. It seals "all of you" literally your existence inside a card and you can't affect the real world nor be affected by the real world from there and Ajimu was having fun in there. That wasn't nearly enough to stop Bookmaker though, due to it working differently. And Gil's resistances would also be sealed by Bookmaker, don't forget that.

 

[Wokistan]

Pretty sure that your resistances are applied as they apply to you, not the other way around. Not exactly sure why Bookmaker is a better seal than the moon cell anyways.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Pretty sure that your resistances are applied as they apply to you, not the other way around. Not exactly sure why Bookmaker is a better seal than the moon cell anyways.

Ajimu brushes off every skill except Bookmaker via being a higher existence or some bullshit like that. She stated "bookmaker is the only skill in history to have ever affected me". And being the only skill in history to affect her, you know that includes "all fiction" with it's universal conceptual manipulation.

Also again the resistances would be sealed either way, so it's not helping.

 

[Wokistan]

Pretty sure that universal AF isn't accepted, and that's not really how resistances work. He doesn't get all his resistances sealed when they prevent the power from working properly in the first place. Lavos has resistance negation, but that's a specific ability he has to do and even then wouldn't apply to resistances superior to what he's been shown to get rid of.

 

[Wokistan]

The moon cell is why BB can do all her shit by the way, so that's the scale of what Gil resists.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

1. The wiki has accepted the universal color erasure for All Fiction it's in the profile. And im pretty sure the Moon Cell has nothing on that level, let alone beyond it.

2. I was talking about resistance to causality which would allow Medaka to 1 shot after, though just Bookmaker would be enough of an incap (shut down and will manip). He doesn't have resistance to will manip either besides not having type 2 sealing resistance. And as i said it's resistance to type 1 sealing it's not applicable cus Bookmaker already bypasses that. So Medaka takes this again.

 

[Wokistan]

The Moon cell's kinda weird, you're probably better off asking someone more knowledgable on that.

Gil resists causality manip and EE, Gil resists mind manip which willpower manip is a subset of, I've already explained that Gil's resists would function as they do in his verse (Basically, its a weakness for Ajimu, not that it bypasses resists). Doesn't Medaka's book maker not work all that great since she's not super depressed and stuff like Kumagawa was? His started to be less effective when his disposition improved because his level stopped being so pathetic.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Gil's resist works as in verse, but in Medaka's verse it is already bypassed. Also why would his t1s work as a t2s resist too?

As for Medaka you forget she copies stuff at their max/perfect potential.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Moon Cell > anything in medaka box.

T2 sealing is literally just another form of power null, I don't know why it is on a separate page.

 

[Kaltias]

Type 2 sealing is literally Silence from Final Fantasy.

No idea why it's even considered sealing instead of power null

Edit: Ninja'd by Monarch

 

[Wokistan]

Gil's resisted what you would consider a type 2 anyways, and Kumagawa using it on someone who wouldn't resist doesn't say anything about it bypassing resistances unless Ajimu resisted some other sort oftype 2 seal.

Isn't the ability to "Bring the opponent down to the user's level"? I don't see why Medaka is turning people into Kumagawas with it when she's not Kumagawa. If it worked that way, please show me a scan.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Moon Cell > anything in medaka box.
T2 sealing is literally just another form of power null, I don't know why it is on a separate page.

Feat exactly? Cus that ain't happening.

No it's not. I already explained how it works, it has a different name in verse and it also bypasses resistance. It has feats and feats > opinions.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Explain how it worked then. The feat on gil i mean. Also working on someone who has shown resistance to the 2 others means it's neither of those 2.

Medaka used it on herself and she became weaker than her opponent. So Medaka's bookmaker makes you weaker than her. And also Kumagawa stated Bookmaker is a skill that turns a plus into a minus.

Book Maker: A Minus copied from Kumagawa, allowing Medaka to impale her foe with a special screw that brings the target's body, spirit, technique, intellect, and talent down to Kumagawa's level.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

You all know what's nice?

Grace period would have ended in an hour and this could have been added as inconclusive and it would all be over.

"Would have" because some people decided to switch to Gil via theoretically trapping her between world layers, and now not only has grace reset, it hasn't even begun.

Sigh

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Monarch Laciel wrote
Already debunked the BFR not working. All Fiction negate. Also there is still no resistance to type 2 seal on Gil's side. All im hearing is type 1 seal, power steal, power null all of which have been trashed in cannon by Bookmaker.
And no one has explained his type 1 seal yet.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I'm switching to Gil too,what the nerd said (Monarch and Swag) make sense.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I'm switching to Gil too,what the nerd said (Monarch and Swag) make sense.

Debunked reason.

 

[Schnee_One]

I'd like to point out Gil stomps if he can BFR Medaka.

Because EVERYTHING she does is useless.

This is a stomp.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Except we have though? And you're the only one insisting that t2 sealing is different to power null, when it's an application of it.

Also the moon cell simulates infinite possible timelines of earth, as well as all of its concepts, and can simulate 8 dimensional space within itself. That's higher than anything in Medaka Box.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I don't think that Gil can BFR Medaka

 

[Schnee_One]

Then it's Inconclusive as the Gil votes are based off wrong reasoning.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Except we have though? And you're the only one insisting that t2 sealing is different to power null, when it's an application of it.
Also the moon cell simulates infinite possible timelines of earth, as well as all of its concepts, and can simulate 8 dimensional space within itself. That's higher than anything in Medaka Box.

Im not insisting that it's different. It IS different. You are just circulating points now. I already said "we did a whole freaking CRT thread to solve this", it's a closed deal. Type 2 Sealing is not Power Null already discussed in the thread ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, and i already explained Bookmaker has canon feats of bypassing Power Null resistance. Idk why you are still saying Power Null is Type 2 Sealing when it's resistance is not what it's required.

As for that Moon Cell thingy. Yeah, no, not close to Medaka Box. Infinite timelines? All Fiction erases shit casually from "all" the timelines. Also you need to put the "earth" in bold. Because Earth control ain't competing with causality manipulations on a universal + scale, so no. It is not above Medaka Box. Earth control resistance get's 1 shotted by Bookmaker.

 

[Aizenishere]

Uhh I'm pretty sure people said inconclusive and they WILL switch if he can void manip/BFR. And Ram already said no to EE So who switched their vote via BFR?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Did you seriously just try to argue that the word "all" automatically means All Fiction works on an infinitely greater scale than it has ever be implied to work on, let alone ever actually show?

See, this sort of thing is why people are fed up with you

 

[VoidGoji]

All Fiction can't erase anything beyond baseline 2-C scale.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Did you seriously just try to argue that the word "all" automatically means All Fiction works on an infinitely greater scale than it has ever be implied to work on, let alone ever actually show?
See, this sort of thing is why people are fed up with you

1. All Fiction works on a universal+ scale. The Moon Cell works on a planetary scale. Are you seriously arguing Earth hax > Universal hax?

2. All Fiction by defaults erases stuff from every timeline. By being a causality erasure. It has never existed in any of the timelines, it doesn't just cease to exist. It's not about satements of proof, it's default of being Causality Erasure.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Nvm,goes back to inconclusive then. >_>

 

[Wokistan]

That's not what causality means.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

All Fiction can't erase anything beyond baseline 2-C scale.

Yeah, am not gonna argue any higher. The Moon Cell is planetary though. It ain't 2-C.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That's not what causality means.

That's what ajimu explained it was though.

 

[Schnee_One]

Moon Cell contains higher dimensions no?

 

[Aizenishere]

8-D to be exact

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

1. Infinite timelines of earth is infinitely greater than universal+ by virtue of being infinite sets of space-time compared to a single one. So no, I'm not arguing earth hax > universal hax. I'm arguing that infinite timeline hax > single universe hax

2. No? That's your interpretation of a power. Nothing says that All Fiction erases all other timelines by erasing the cause of a single thing in one timeline and holy shit is that wank now that I spell it out.