MCU: possible correction or upgrade to Tier 1 (?)

[Qawsedf234]

He can travel to the Watcher's realm which exists outside of the Multiverse, being able to freely leave a Low 1-C structure with its boundaries being irrelevant doesn't give Low 1-C range?

No

Range

Range is a measurement that refers to how far that the attacks or abilities of a certain character, weapon, or otherwise, can efficiently reach on their/its own. For more information about different units of length, please see this page. However, a general guide for categorizing range has been...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Low Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within two to one thousand 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within 1001 to any higher finite number of 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

Multiversal+: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within an infinite amount of 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

Low Complex Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach throughout 5-dimensional to 6-dimensional space.

Going to the Watcher's realm is at most interdimensional range

 

[Reiner04]

Yes, but that already happens in the Sacred Timeline, which is just a single timeline of an infinite amount which also have its own branches like the Sacred Timeline

I believe sacred timeline in itself do not contain branched Timeline? But sacred timeline contains Infinite amount of realities as in non branched dimensions, while all other branched off timelines is branching off from sacred timeline? And so totality would scale.

 

[ThanatosX]

Yeah, I generally agree with Qawsedf234. The cosmology in my opinion would be:

• Single Timeline = 2-A
• All of the Timelines = Low 1-C (5-D)
• Citadel at the End of Time (I think it was called like that) = Low 1-C (I guess? It contains a Timeline, which then branches infinitely, and in the post credit scene of Quatumania it's implied that it contains all of the Timelines, but for now it's a bit vague so this should probably be discussed)
• Real World = Low 1-C (6-D)

The only one that would have a AP upgrade is K.E.V.I.N., which will become 6-D (unfortunately, since I hate him so much and I can't stand that he is the top dog of the verse).
For the rest, Infinity Ultron, the Watcher, Alioth and Strange Supreme for me should keep the same AP they have right now, so just above baseline 2-A and nothing more.
I believe an argument for Low 1-C range with Dimensional Travel for Alioth can be made since he is able to bring people to the Citadel at the End of Time, which is most likely a Low 1-C structure I believe, but I am neutral regarding that.

 

[RoTt35]

Going to the Watcher's realm is at most interdimensional range

"Interdimensional: Attacks and abilities that can reach beyond the conventional space-time of a single universe, such as into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that may not necessarily travel a universal distance."

You are literally saying that the entire Multiverse is a single universe based on that when The Watcher's realm exists outside of a 5D structure

 

[Reiner04]

Yeah, I generally agree with Qawsedf234. The cosmology in my opinion would be:

• Single Timeline = 2-A
• All of the Timelines = Low 1-C (5-D)
• Citadel at the End of Time = Low 1-C (I guess? It contains a Timeline, which then branches infinitely, and in the post credit scene of Quatumania it's implied that it contains all of the Timelines, but for now it's a bit vague so this should probably be discussed)
• Real World = Low 1-C (6-D)

Yeah basically this.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You are literally saying that the entire Multiverse is a single universe based on that when The Watcher's realm exists outside of a 5D structure

I keep forgetting the correct definition of interdimensional.

Anyways it's not a Low Complex range feat. It's just a Low Multiversal feat.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Agree

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

The total cosmology being Low 1-C can make sense in terms of a space containing different 2-A spaces, but the individual timelines will only ever be 2-A.

The only person this would change is KEVIN who would become 6th dimensional rather than 5th. It doesn't scale to anyone else.

Wouldn’t alioth get a higher ap rating?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wouldn’t alioth get a higher ap rating?

Not as far as I know

 

[Aachintya31]

Not as far as I know

Alioth absorbed the infinite timelines at once which together is a Low 1-C structure.
He should get Low 1-C rating as well.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Alioth absorbed the infinite timelines at once which together is a Low 1-C structure.

Over the course of the war. To get Alioth to Low 1-C you would need to prove it did that in a single action, which isn't possible.

 

[RoTt35]

Would the Quantum Realm being the basement of the Multiverse and the world between timelines mean anything for the cosmology?

 

[Aachintya31]

Over the course of the war. To get Alioth to Low 1-C you would need to prove it did that in a single action, which isn't possible.

Isn't it already assumed it happened instantly on his profile ?

Alioth's statements and lore don't work unless Alioth consumed the infinite amount of realities instantly the way it's stated to have the ability eat "entire branched realities instantly".

 

[Planck69]

The upgrade makes sense to me, if indeed every single moment generates an alternate reality. As for who scales, I'll leave that to you.

 

[RoTt35]

Isn't it already assumed it happened instantly on his profile ?

If I remember correctly the argument was that Alioth had to end the Multiversal War instantly due to the infinite and indefinite branching of the timelines and its own branches, therefore Alioth would not be able to consume countless timelines one by one since at the same moment he consumes a single timeline the other timelines would already branched into an infinite amount of branches, and then the branching would be repeated with the branches and so on ad infinitum

 

[Qawsedf234]

Would the Quantum Realm being the basement of the Multiverse and the world between timelines mean anything for the cosmology?

It just means its a foundation. But nothing for tiering.

Isn't it already assumed it happened instantly on his profile ?

Eating a Branch gets rid of all other branches. Alioth consuming a branching point at the start of time would stop all other branching points from existing.

 

[RoTt35]

It just means its a foundation. But nothing for tiering.

Wouldn't that make the Quantum Realm comparable to the Multiverse in size since it spans across all the timelines?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wouldn't that make the Quantum Realm comparable to the Multiverse in size since it spans across all the timelines?

It's a micro realm they connect to but more importantly it's also a micro realm that can canonically generate alternatives universes. I'm not seeing it being more than Tier 2.

 

[Yusuf21259]

i guess it should scale in watcher at least as self it watches all 4d cosmology as story and has 5d dimensional narrator and omniscient part to it

 

[Yusuf21259]

and the rest seems to be the closest ultron without being scaled, but due to his duty, he was not supposed to be involved officially, and as a result, instead of fighting with him, he escaped and it may seem limited to 5d self and 2a-2a+ ap-dura in the watcher, it doesn't pose a problem.

 

[Reiner04]

Well, scaling wasn't really a purpose of this thread but cosmology, I'll leave the scaling part and apply the respective changes to cosmology page. This thread seems to have been completed then.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

It just means its a foundation. But nothing for tiering.

Eating a Branch gets rid of all other branches. Alioth consuming a branching point at the start of time would stop all other branching points from existing.

Wouldn’t he still have to consume them all at once seeing as there are infinite branches with a point of origin

 

[The_forgetten]

i guess it should scale in watcher at least as self it watches all 4d cosmology as story and has 5d dimensional narrator and omniscient part to it

yes actually kevin can be taken 5d for that but I still don't think it's a sufficient context for an endless branching from the cosmology link

 

[Aachintya31]

Eating a Branch gets rid of all other branches. Alioth consuming a branching point at the start of time would stop all other branching points from existing

But that's headcanon to assume that be destroys the timeline at the start of time causing other branches to stop existing.

 

[The_forgetten]

BI still find it cosmologically illogical because the uncountably infinite snapshot formed on a timeline contains every moment of the spatial dimensions, and thanks to these countless infinite snapshots A timeline encompasses each instant of spatial dimensions, and that's because you can't use the innumerable infinities as other instrumental resultant times, it's just a single plane.It is a valid law for, therefore, there is no branching here.

 

[Yusuf21259]

Because he can generate infinite armies and freely attack every timeline at once from the Watcher's realm

In many what if..? stories, no one was in a position to reach the watcher I think the only people who saw it in the story were dr strange supreme room on their own will and infinity ultron in other words what if..? still could not be detected even for 2b dormamu

 

[Qawsedf234]

But that's headcanon to assume that be destroys the timeline at the start of time causing other branches to stop existing

It's also head cannon to say it ate them all at once. It requires less assumptions to just say it destroyed the original branching point rather than work backwards from some future date.

Wouldn’t he still have to consume them all at once seeing as there are infinite branches with a point of origin

The multiverse has a definitive starting point that branches from choice afterwards. Starting at point 0 would mean it could get rid of any future branch without consuming all of reality.

Also, the most important point, even if it did literally one shot all multiverses.... it would still be 2-A

A: In spite of what our intuitions may tell us, destroying or fully affecting multiple infinite-sized multiverses is in fact not better than doing the same to a single infinite multiverse, and thus, not above the "baseline" for 2-A

The reason is that the total amount of universes contained in a collection of multiple infinitely-sized multiverses (even one consisting of infinitely many of them) is in fact equal to the amount of universes contained in a single one of the multiverses that form this ensemble: It is countably infinite, as the union of countably-many countable sets is itself countable, and thus does not differ in size from its components. The only general difference between multiple infinitely-sized multiverses and a single one is representation. What is considered to be multiple multiverses in one fiction could be considered a single multiverse in another, and vice versa, without the objective properties of those collections of universes changing. The only difference is where an author decided to draw the line between what belongs to the same multiverse and not. Thus, only an uncountably infinite number of universes actually makes any difference in terms of Attack Potency, at this scale.

This illustrates some of the more unintuitive properties of sets with infinite elements: Namely, given a set X, it being a subset of another set Y does not imply that Y > X in terms of size. An example of this is how the set of all natural numbers contains both the odd numbers and even numbers, yet all of these sets in fact have the same number of elements.

Similar to Attack Potency, affecting multiple multiverses by default can not be considered a feat of superior Range to affecting a single one. As mentioned before there is no real difference between the size or properties of one or multiple multiverses. Hence there can be no objective difference in range either. This is made even worse by the fact that what we considered multiversal range, as the distance between universes or the distances between things in or between multiverses, is usually not directly stated or quantifiable in fiction, but instead is approximated by the number of universes. That idea becomes meaningless if we try to quantify different ranges within sets of universes of equal numbers. As a consequence, even if one verse gave an indirect indicator of different ranges in its multiverse it would be impossible to compare to a different fiction where such a quantification doesn't exist.
For example, if travelling to another multiverse is said to take longer than travelling within the same one, that would seem to be an indication of different ranges, but at the same time one can not compare those informations to another fiction, as there is no way to tell how travelling within the same multiverse in another fiction compares range wise to either of those distances.

However, feats regarding affecting multiple multiverses may indeed qualify as higher range if the verse itself treats it as such. Those feats need to be relatively explicit and objective. For example, one multiverse being outside of the range of an effect or of the power of a character that can affect one infinite multiverse doesn't necessarily mean the multiverse is further away. Other factors such as differences in nature and domain of the multiverses or characters could, amongst other many other factors, also be the reason

No one other than KEVIN would get an upgrade from this. There's no way around it.

.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

It's also head cannon to say it ate them all at once. It requires less assumptions to just say it destroyed the original branching point rather than work backwards from some future date.

The multiverse has a definitive starting point that branches from choice afterwards. Starting at point 0 would mean it could get rid of any future branch without consuming all of reality.

Also, the most important point, even if it did literally one shot all multiverses.... it would still be 2-A

No one other than KEVIN would get an upgrade from this. There's no way around it.

If he ate that then there would litterly be nothing of the mcu to begin with considering the “point 0” is the sacred timeline

 

[The_forgetten]

Aynı anda hepsini yediğini söylemek de kafa topu. Gelecekteki bir tarihten geriye doğru çalışmak yerine orijinal dallanma noktasını yok ettiğini söylemek daha az varsayım gerektirir.

Çoklu evren, daha sonra seçimden ayrılan kesin bir başlangıç noktasına sahiptir. 0 noktasından başlamak, tüm gerçekliği tüketmeden gelecekteki herhangi bir daldan kurtulabileceği anlamına gelir.

Ayrıca, en önemli nokta, kelimenin tam anlamıyla tüm çoklu evrenlerde tek atış yapsa bile... yine de 2-A olacaktır.

KEVIN'den başka hiç kimse bundan bir yükseltme alamaz. Etrafında bir yol yok.

DMy friend, I told my friends what was necessary, but they do not understand how much I wrote.

 

[The_forgetten]

Eğer onu yerse, o zaman "0 noktasının" kutsal zaman çizelgesi olduğunu göz önünde bulundurarak başlamak için mcu'dan hiçbir şey kalmazdı.

Arkadaşımlook dude, now what Reiner said definitely doesn't come from cosmology l1c anyway. But this is only valid for a simple and single plane, it does not refer to any other alternative timeline and does not cause any branching.

 

[The_forgetten]

Arkadaşım bak dostum, şimdi Reiner'ın söylediği kesinlikle kozmoloji l1c'den gelmiyor zaten. Ancak bu sadece basit ve tek bir düzlem için geçerlidir, başka bir alternatif zaman çizelgesine atıfta bulunmaz ve herhangi bir dallanmaya neden olmaz.

Cbecause there is already a timeline consisting of every single moment or uncountable infinite snapshot of certain spatiality, you cannot refer to any other alternative tenses.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Arkadaşımlook dude, now what Reiner said definitely doesn't come from cosmology l1c anyway. But this is only valid for a simple and single plane, it does not refer to any other alternative timeline and does not cause any branching.

Any branching of what?

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Arkadaşımlook dude, now what Reiner said definitely doesn't come from cosmology l1c anyway. But this is only valid for a simple and single plane, it does not refer to any other alternative timeline and does not cause any branching.

Cbecause there is already a timeline consisting of every single moment or uncountable infinite snapshot of certain spatiality, you cannot refer to any other alternative tenses.

Are you saying the cosmology isn’t 1-c?

 

[The_forgetten]

Referring to Reiner I said for the endless branches in the mcu

 

[The_forgetten]

Kozmolojinin 1-c olmadığını mı söylüyorsunuz?

That's right, how many articles have I written already?

 

[ThanatosX]

That's right, how many articles have I written already?

Nothing of what you said in your previously comments is how our Tiering System works. Something cannot be infinitely bigger than a 2-A structure and still be 2-A, and the totality of the Timelines are infinitely bigger than a single Timeline (2-A structure) for the simple fact that an infinite number of them exist. Basically, the Timelines (as in the toal number of them) would add an additional spatial dimension to the already four dimensions of the single Timelines.
This is how out Tiering System works at the moment, so unless you make a thread to change that this is Low 1-C.

 

[The_forgetten]

Önceki yorumlarınızda söylediklerinizin hiçbiri, Kademelendirme Sistemimizin işleyiş şekli değildir. Bir şey bir 2-A yapısından sonsuz derecede büyük olamaz ve yine de 2-A olabilir ve Zaman Çizelgelerinin toplamı, sonsuz sayıda var oldukları basit gerçeği için tek bir Zaman Çizelgesinden (2-A yapısı) sonsuz derecede büyüktür. Temel olarak, Zaman Çizelgeleri (toplam sayılarında olduğu gibi), tek Zaman Çizelgelerinin zaten dört boyutuna ek bir uzamsal boyut ekleyecektir.
Seviyelendirme Sistemi şu anda böyle çalışıyor, yani bunun Düşük 1-C olduğunu değiştirmek için bir burada konu açmazsanı.dostum benim görüşüm sey bu

Önceki yorumlarınızda söylediklerinizin hiçbiri, Kademelendirme Sistemimizin işleyiş şekli değildir. Bir şey bir 2-A yapısından sonsuz derecede büyük olamaz ve yine de 2-A olabilir ve Zaman Çizelgelerinin toplamı, sonsuz sayıda var oldukları basit gerçeği için tek bir Zaman Çizelgesinden (2-A yapısı) sonsuz derecede büyüktür. Temel olarak, Zaman Çizelgeleri (toplam sayılarında olduğu gibi), tek Zaman Çizelgelerinin zaten dört boyutuna ek bir uzamsal boyut ekleyecektir.
Seviyelendirme Sistemi şu anda böyle çalışıyor, yani bunun Düşük 1-C olduğunu değiştirmek için bir konu açmazsanı

Önceki yorumlarınızda söylediklerinizin hiçbiri, Kademelendirme Sistemimizin işleyiş şekli değildir. Bir şey bir 2-A yapısından sonsuz derecede büyük olamaz ve yine de 2-A olabilir ve Zaman Çizelgelerinin toplamı, sonsuz sayıda var oldukları basit gerçeği için tek bir Zaman Çizelgesinden (2-A yapısı) sonsuz derecede büyüktür. Temel olarak, Zaman Çizelgeleri (toplam sayılarında olduğu gibi), tek Zaman Çizelgelerinin zaten dört boyutuna ek bir uzamsal boyut ekleyecektir.
Seviyelendirme Sistemi şu anda böyle çalışıyor, yani bunun Düşük 1-C olduğunu değiştirmek için bir konu açmazsanız.

my friend, this is not what I'm talking about here, since there will be 1 infinity level coordinate field for uncountable infinite 4 dimensional structures, this situation will also be l1c, but I wanted to mention it here.What I want is that a certain timeline already contains every single moment of an entire spatial field this is its present, future or past this constantly repeats and is uncountably infinite and this uncountable infinity only allows the creation of a coordinate plane higher than the spatial dimension, that is, the chart that created it, and this is not a branching for other time planes entirely. So what I'm talking about here is that this uncountable infinite snapshot exists only to create the coordinate plane, that is, the timeline, which will be formed in a single chart, so this situation also exists. Since it will only be valid for a single plane, there can be no branching or the uncountability still continues in 2a.

 

[ThanatosX]

my friend, this is not what I'm talking about here, since there will be 1 infinity level coordinate field for uncountable infinite 4 dimensional structures, this situation will also be l1c, but I wanted to mention it here.What I want is that a certain timeline already contains every single moment of an entire spatial field this is its present, future or past this constantly repeats and is uncountably infinite and this uncountable infinity only allows the creation of a coordinate plane higher than the spatial dimension, that is, the chart that created it, and this is not a branching for other time planes entirely. So what I'm talking about here is that this uncountable infinite snapshot exists only to create the coordinate plane, that is, the timeline, which will be formed in a single chart, so this situation also exists. Since it will only be valid for a single plane, there can be no branching or the uncountability still continues in 2a.

I don't think I am understanding what you mean, but I believe you are confusing spatial dimensions with temporal dimensions, since the "infinite snapshot" you are talking about are only present with the latter, which is not the argument that is being made here.

But whatever, at the moment the revision seems to be accepted by all of the staff members that commented here, so we need to wait for grace to end and than we can maybe make another thread to discuss whoever scales, either in AP in K.E.V.I.N. case or possibly in range for other cases.

 

[The_forgetten]

dostça hayır öyle demiyorum ahbap uzay ve zamansal boyutları karıştırmıyorum sadece ne dediğimi anlamak istemiyorsun da l1c olacak ama ben burada unutulmasını istedim. belirli bir zaman aralığının zaten bütün bir uzaysal kapsamı her bir anını içermesidir bu onun bugünü, geçmişleri veya geçmişidir bu sürekli tekrar eder ve sayılamayacak kadar sonsuzdur ve bu sayılamayan sonsuzluk dışında uzaysal sistemin daha yüksek bir koordinat düzleminin yaratılmasına izin verir, yani , onu grafik yaratan ve bu tamamen diğer uçak zamanları için bir dallanma değildir. Yani burada yapım şey, bu sayılamayan sonsuz bir yapıyı yalnızca koordinat düzlemini, yani tek bir grafikte oluşturacak zaman dağılmayı oluşturmak için var olduğu, yani bu durum da var. Sadece tek bir uçak için olası beklenmemesi için 2a'da dallanma olmaz veya sayılamazlık devam eder.

Ne demek istediğini ortaya koyduğunu ortaya koyan, ancak gidişinizin "sonsuz enstantane" yalnızca ikincisinde mevcut olduğu için, uzay içerikleri zamansal boyutlarla karıştırdığınıza gideceğiniz, tek bir gidiş beklentisi bu değil. Burada.

Ama her neyse, şu anda revizyon burada yorum yapan tüm personel tarafından kabul edilmiş gibi görünüyor, bu yüzden izinin sona ermesini beklememiz gerekiyor ve belki de KEVIN durumunda AP'de kimin genişletildiğini tartışmak için başka bir başlığı açabiliriz.veya muhtemelen diğer cihazlar için menzil içinde.

Ne demek istediğini anladığımı ortaya koyan, ancak gidişinizin "sonsuz enstantane" yalnızca ikincisinde mevcut olduğu için, uzay içerikleri zamansal boyutlarla karıştırdığınıza gideceğiniz, tek bir gidiş beklentisi bu değil. Burada.

Ama her neyse, şu anda revizyon burada yorum yapan tüm personel tarafından kabul edilmiş gibi görünüyor, bu yüzden iznin sona ermesini beklememiz gerekiyor ve belki de KEVIN durumunda AP'de kimin genişletildiğini tartışmak için başka bir başlığı açabiliriz. veya muhtemelen diğer cihazlar için menzil içinde.

Ne demek istediğini anladığımı ortaya koyan, ancak gidişiniz "sonsuz enstantane" yalnızca ikincisinde mevcut olduğu için, uzay içerikleri zamansal boyutlarla karıştırdığınıza gideceğiniz, tek bir gidiş beklentisi bu değil. Burada.

Ama her neyse, şu anda revizyon burada yorum yapan tüm personel tarafından kabul edilmiş gibi görünüyor, bu yüzden iznin sona ermesini beklememiz gerekiyor ve belki de KEVIN durumunda AP'de kimin genişletildiğini tartışmak için başka bir başlığı açabiliriz. veya muhtemelen diğer cihazlar için menzil içinde.

arkadaşça hayır öyle demiyorum dostum ben uzay ve zamansal boyutları karıştırmıyorum sadece ne dediğimi anlamak istemezsin 4 boyutlu uzay 3 uzaysal +1 zamansal boyut desteğithere is an infinite amount of 4d dimensional structures that will be formed in this way, and this will raise it to the level of 2a. It means that it creates a coordinate space, and in fact, it ensures that the 4 dimensional structures that contain time are an infinite number of 2, and besides this, with this infinite amount of 2a structures, it Thanks to the coordinate field formed with , this will raise it to the level of l1c. What Reiner is talking about here is an endless branching for 2a about mwi, but there is nothing about it because time That their charts contain uncountable infinite snapshots is only realistic within their plane, which creates no branching.

 

[Qawsedf234]

still be 2-A, and the totality of the Timelines are infinitely bigger than a single Timeline (2-A structure) for the simple fact that an infinite number of them exist. Basically, the Timelines (as in the toal number of them) would add an additional spatial dimension to the already four dimensions of the single Timelines.

Having infinite multiverses is just 2-A. The space that contains infinite multiverses would be Low 1-C.