MCU Multiverse Downgrade

[RoTt35]

According to this recent article of the Marvel Website, when Loki destroyed the Temporal Loom it shattered into a million timelines and reshaped that same amount into the "Multiversal Yggdrasil", and Timely stated that the Multiverse grows up to infinity since it's ever-expanding, this debunks the current argument that the Sacred Timeline branched into an infinite amount of timelines in every passing/singular moment, in other words the Sacred Timeline never branched into an uncountable infinite amount of timelines as we assumed before. This would downgrade the Multiverse from Low 1-C to 2-A since each timeline still contains an infinite amount of universes, basically the Multiverse just has a finite amount of 2-A timelines that is ever-expanding/growing to infinity.


The cosmology page also assumes that the Multiverse contained an infinite amount of independent trees like the Sacred Timeline along with its branches, which was clearly proven to be a wrong assumption as the entire Multiverse was just represented as a single tree at the end of Loki and What If...? so that part should be removed from the page, it's not like that has ever been taken into account so the change doesn't really matter.

In summary, the Multiverse would be downgraded from Low 1-C to 2-A since the assumption of the existence of an uncountable infinite amount of timelines was proven wrong. So Alioth, God Loki and the range of Kang's Dimensional Travel and Scarlet Witch's Existence Erasure would also be downgraded from Low 1-C to 2-A, and K.E.V.I.N. from 1-C to Low 1-C (6D)

 

[Dalesean027]

Damn if it must be done then so be it, fun while it lasted

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

The way that the article is worded seems to indicate that it's referring to the "million timelines" being the visual effects immediately around Loki's throne. That might just be me, though.

"So, what does this mean? The season ends with one last look at Loki on his new throne in the “AFTER” period as a million timelines swirl around him. Feel free to interpret this as you want — the creative team hopes you do."

 

[darkphantom9805]

Ehh I don’t know I heard marvel.com has some pretty goofy scaling statements before

 

[Nyxus123]

This contradicts the show as if the timelines were finite then they would have been able to adjust for it and Loki would never had to make the sacrifice he did. It was because the multiverse was becoming infinite that they couldn't.

I think we also have to look at the new structure and how it being a tree works. To me I think it works like this the trunk of the tree which is what surrounds Loki is finite and has a million timelines but the branches themselves are infinite and are continuously growing. That's just my interpretation though but either way the article does contradict the show and I think the show should take preference over an article.

 

[RoTt35]

The way that the article is worded seems to indicate that it's referring to the "million timelines" being the visual effects immediately around Loki's throne. That might just be me, though.

"So, what does this mean? The season ends with one last look at Loki on his new throne in the “AFTER” period as a million timelines swirl around him. Feel free to interpret this as you want — the creative team hopes you do."

It could be, although Timely's statement supports it and the plot of season 2 itself since the Temporal Loom plan fails because the timelines grow to infinity, and it would make no sense if there were an uncountable infinite number of them

Ehh I don’t know I heard marvel.com has some pretty goofy scaling statements before

The evidence supporting the uncountable infinite amount of timelines also comes from the Marvel Website

 

[Mvrr]

Nah keep it 1-C

 

[darkphantom9805]

Yeah just keep it like it is until we see more in universe statements about his tree and stuff

 

[RoTt35]

This contradicts the show as if the timelines were finite then they would have been able to adjust for it and Loki would never had to make the sacrifice he did. It was because the multiverse was becoming infinite that they couldn't.

So why didn't the Temporal Loom explode immediately? Why in the first episodes they were able to erase a percentage of the timelines if they are infinite? Timely stated that the Multiverse grows to infinity, so no matter how many adjustments they had made to the Temporal Loom, it would always continue to explode, so the only solution was Loki's sacrifice

I think we also have to look at the new structure and how it being a tree works. To me I think it works like this the trunk of the tree which is what surrounds Loki is finite and has a million timelines but the branches themselves are infinite and are continuously growing.

That's what I'm saying, the timelines are initially finite but they ever-expand/grow to infinity, as supported by Timely's statement and the article. The important thing is that this debunks the assumption that an infinite amount of timelines branched in every passing/singular moment (uncountable infinite amount timelines) of the Sacred Timeline, which does contradict the show since if so the Temporal Loom would have exploded immediately

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Yeah, what I was saying is that the million timeline limit just seemed to be a VFX or specific shot thing rather than a definitive statement on how big the multiverse was. "A million" is frequently used just to represent a big number or a large quantity, so I doubt it's material for a downgrade of any kind. Even if it were, the show blatantly contradicts that with the major plot points of the second season revolving around an infinite Loom

 

[Executor_N0]

So why didn't the Temporal Loom explode immediately? Why in the first episodes they were able to erase a percentage of the timelines if they are infinite? Timely stated that the Multiverse grows to infinity, so no matter how many adjustments they had made to the Temporal Loom, it would always continue to explode, so the only solution was Loki's sacrifice

Timely was wrong; the problem with the loom was never capacity, but the fact that it was developed with the intent of erasing timelines that would create a Kang variant. This means that as long as timelines with variants continued to be made, they would be erased. It's just that everyone on the TVA was in the dark about the true nature of the timelines and the nature of the "sacred timeline", which is why the screenwriter explained that since the start, there were always infinite timelines already; it's just that those didn't cause Kang variants, which is why Sylvie could travel to apocalyptic events and interfere there, because those events wouldn't create meaningful branches that could create a Kang variant because everything would stop mattering after that region was completely destroyed.

If anything, Loki is one of the most serious examples of "no one in the series really knows what is happening," and you can point out roles in their understanding at every moment, which is why the screenwriter directly agrees on the true nature of what is happening, never being clear in the work itself, which is sad. I really dislike works whose entire conflict revolves around the characters not knowing what is happening, and no one has the clear understanding to notice the holes in their own understanding.

 

[Swordsaint456]

dissagree fra

 

[Eseseso]

Neutral

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

For what i saw reading the article the million timelines is something made up by the writer of the article which while is in marvel she is not directly envolved with Loki, and considering the series contradict this, i think it's not really valid, it's no different from those statements from the actors that are often ignored because the movies don't support it.
It's more likely to be just her own words to express what she saw rather than an official confirmation that the marvel multiverse is limited to 1M timelines

 

[RoTt35]

For what i saw reading the article the million timelines is something made up by the writer of the article which while is in marvel she is not directly envolved with Loki, and considering the series contradict this, i think it's not really valid, it's no different from those statements from the actors that are often ignored because the movies don't support it.
It's more likely to be just her own words to express what she saw rather than an official confirmation that the marvel multiverse is limited to 1M timelines

I mean, that's fair, the problem is that we use many articles from the MW written by that same person to justify the tier of the cosmology tier, so we shouldn't use them either?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I mean, that's fair, the problem is that we use many articles from the MW written by that same person to justify the tier of the cosmology tier, so we shouldn't use them either?

If they are supported or at least not contradicted it can count as "secondary canon" or third i dont know, i think you get the point.

 

[KLOL506]

the problem is that we use many articles from the MW written by that same person to justify the tier of the cosmology tier, so we shouldn't use them either?

Not if it contradicts the main source material, in which case, it doesn't matter who TF wrote it, that specific contradictory WoG becomes null and void. Doesn't mean the writer as a whole gets discarded tho, as the rest of the WoG that clarifies what already exists in the verse can still be used.

Remember, WoG is treated as tertiary canon. Guidebooks, websites, novelizations, artbooks and the like are treated as secondary canon. Primary canon happens to be the shows, movies and comics tied in to that.

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Qawsedf234 Your opinion here would be appreciated.

 

[Qawsedf234]

@Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Qawsedf234 Your opinion here would be appreciated.

Ultimately it's about canon prioritiy. Afaik the work is defaulted to be the main canon, with outside sources taking a backseat if they're contradicted.

Considering different sources from different time periods have identical statements the article's million timelines thing isn't enough on its own for a downgrade.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree

 

[KLOL506]

I agree

There's not really much to agree here with, if you are agreeing with the OP.

WoG gets contradicted by the source material, and thus gets discarded. You can only use WoG if it clarifies what already exists within the source material. At the same time, this doesn't make that specific author 100% unreliable, we get to pick and choose based on whether their tweet lines up with the source material or not, as per our rules.

 

[KLOL506]

@Planck69 @LephyrTheRevanchist Bumping again for posterity's sake.

 

[KLOL506]

Necro Bump

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 @Emirp sumitpo @KingTempest @Elizhaa @Maverick_Zero_X Tagging y'all again so that we can conclude this.

 

[Planck69]

Qawd and you already said it. The main material takes precedent.

 

[KingTempest]

Qawd and you already said it. The main material takes precedent.

Pretty much this

 

[Reiner04]

Pretty much this

Shouldn't this be closed then? OP as well doesn't seem interested any further after Qawsed elaboration.

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah I think we should close this thread now.

 

[Planck69]

Closing it.