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Because apparently carol doesn’t actually get stronger
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Mcu high tiers star lvl revision
- Thread starter The_one_you_least_expect
- Start date
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No statements or anything else to support her having gotten stronger
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Thanks for making the revision to discuss this. So, I believe that the Post-Awakening characters can stay at the current Low 4-C Tier, since in my opinion is consistent with the informations we have.
However, I completely agree with the removal of the Low 4-C rating to the Pre-Awakening characters. It's inconsistent and there is no actual reason to do it. From my understanding, there is some scaling problems that is causing this issues to occur, which is mainly the Hulk and Thanos scaling.
It can be implied that Hulk became stronger during the time passed in the Arena, since it was the first time that he had the possibility to maintain control over the body for an extended period of time and he also fought numerous battles in the Arena that could justify a power jump, but there is the problem of Ragnarok Thor scaling to him, which makes everyone that scales to him scale to Low 4-C.
At this point, I would say that either the Thanos-Hulk scaling needs to be put aside, or a solution needs to be found to make the Hulk scaling contained without causing issues. If the Hulk is canonically stated to vary in strenght depending on his rage, than this might be a good point to start, otherwise the whole Thanos-Hulk scaling needs to be put aside to prevent everyone becoming Low 4-C, which would cause obvious problems.
However, I completely agree with the removal of the Low 4-C rating to the Pre-Awakening characters. It's inconsistent and there is no actual reason to do it. From my understanding, there is some scaling problems that is causing this issues to occur, which is mainly the Hulk and Thanos scaling.
It can be implied that Hulk became stronger during the time passed in the Arena, since it was the first time that he had the possibility to maintain control over the body for an extended period of time and he also fought numerous battles in the Arena that could justify a power jump, but there is the problem of Ragnarok Thor scaling to him, which makes everyone that scales to him scale to Low 4-C.
At this point, I would say that either the Thanos-Hulk scaling needs to be put aside, or a solution needs to be found to make the Hulk scaling contained without causing issues. If the Hulk is canonically stated to vary in strenght depending on his rage, than this might be a good point to start, otherwise the whole Thanos-Hulk scaling needs to be put aside to prevent everyone becoming Low 4-C, which would cause obvious problems.
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- Thread starter
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Cuz she didn’t get stronger
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My personal problem here is that his scaling to Thor comes from taking 2 hits thats do definitely phase him from a Thor who literally just partially awakened, however its not like dude still doesn't recognize him as a comrade it ain't like Thor was even trying to kill him or anything, something that can be said for both there but further supports my point.
Hulk simply shouldn't scale to either for me personally, his scaling should revert to however it was prior to things changing
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They told me it was because Thanos went full force against hulk and hulk was still standing after multiple hits
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Full force is crazy when its something he casually does with them even exclaiming to let thanos have his fun...
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“Partial Awakening” is a bit downplaying, he absolutely awakened there but just couldn’t hold it due to not understanding what it was afterwards. Nothing implies that the state he was in there wasn’t comparable to his state later on.
Also: Pre-Awakening Thor fought Hela in the throne room and staggered her with punches to the face. If he’s Quintillions of times weaker than his Post-Awakening self that should not be happening and I don’t think Hela can hold back her durability.
Bruce even tries to turn into the Hulk when the Hulkbuster is getting trashed, implying he believes Hulk is stronger than or comparable enough to the Hulkbuster to make a difference in the fight.
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No stated amp, in or out of verse (I assume).
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Staggering means absolutely nothing in the mcu Thanos got staggered by SpiderMan is spidey Thanos level even cap has done it does cap scale to now
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People way over blow what his Awakened form is. It's just his innate ability to conjure lightning.
Well, Bruce has rarely ever fought someone, and never before in the Hulkbuster of all things. Of course he'd assume the green bean who can fight would do better.
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His awakened mode is a full on stat amp not just conjure lightning
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Is there a single in verse statement that his lightning got stronger, or in any complimentary material? Because I'm 99% sure it's calc based, which is what this site focuses on, but I'm talking about official stuff.
Ignoring the leading question asked of the guidebook author, who said not much of a difference.
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If you can get punched, grunt as if you got hurt and basically have taken no damage, that’s quite funny.
He was just fighting Cull. He’s seen Cull fight Iron Man, saw Cull fight in the ship attack on the Asgardians. He knows how strong Cull is and believes Hulk can help him more than the Hulkbuster.
If Hulk is quintillions of times weaker than the Hulkbuster, he would not be trying to turn into Hulk.
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Wrong again Thanos grunted when cap kicked him in the face is cap Thanos level you could say the same for most his interactions with fodder bro grunted just lifting the hulk in the air
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Yes mcu has stuff that treats his awakened mode as a stat amp we don’t have an official multiplier just that it makes him much stronger
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I didn't say Hulk was massively weaker than the Hulkbuster. Like, he used to be weaker, but that's neither here nor there. The point being is Bruce has not shown martial proficiency since his solo film, and Hulk could probably turn the tide of the fight by actually being a better fighter.
(Ignoring the deleted scene where Smart Hulk grapples Cull to the ground to then rocket him into the sky.)
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Post it. Like, honestly, show me where it says that. I've seen a lot of sources, likely not all, but a lot of them. I have not seen one that says he did anything other than learn to conjure his lightning without Mjolnir, because Mjolnir was merely training wheels.
Actually, to be fully transparent, Mjolnir and Stpbreaker magnify his power to some unknown degree. Unless he can't tell that his lightning is now weaker, he did get stronger, which is a common thing for people in the MCU. They just get stronger.
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Same tbh these days
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Again. Funny. Not saying he should scale, just means the way the films portray fights is funny when Drax can kick out a Thanos’s legs or Spidey can move him at all or Valkyrie can put Hulk on his ass or Proxima can block Wanda’s attacks but lose to Black Widow or Cap can hold off Thanos or Black Panther gets hit with Thanos’s blade and doesn’t die or Korg can smack Cull in the face and hurt him or… you get the idea.
I find it funny is all. Like a host of inconsistencies created by a child mashing toys at each other. It interests me to see where the line of scaling comes in. Thor can punch Hela and stumble her but he won’t scale. He can then Awaken and punch her and will scale. Hulk can punch Thanos, stumble him backwards, and not scale, but Iron Man can do the same with all his attacks and will scale.
Not trying to change anything. It’s just funny to me.
Being a better fighter wouldn’t really mean much if Hulk gets pasted by Cull in a single hit. He’s either comparable to Low 4-C or Bruce is trolling by asking Hulk to fight Cull Obsidian when Cull would kill Hulk instantly. Something Bruce would know from watching Cull fight Iron Man, unless Bruce just doesn’t know how strong anyone is.
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They say thor uses his power over thunder which is his awakened mode as a means to pin Thanos down this is the first time thor also overpowered Thanos dropped him to his knees in 3 seconds possibly less also which means they see awakened mode > base
Some old art originally depicted Thor using his awakened mode to tank the star meaning there has to be a stat amp for this to make sense
In L&T thunder almost every time he faced gorr or did any strength task he would activate it
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So does he have to activate it to have the boost? He’s not permanently amped by it? Would that not mean every showing of him without the glowing eyes is Pre-Awakening strength, including the fight vs Thanos in Endgame?
They say thor uses his power over thunder which is his awakened mode as a means to pin Thanos down this is the first time thor also overpowered Thanos dropped him to his knees in 3 seconds possibly less also which means they see awakened mode > base
Some old art originally depicted Thor using his awakened mode to tank the star meaning there has to be a stat amp for this to make sense
In L&T thunder almost every time he faced gorr or did any strength task he would activate it
Might want to clarify that, because that makes it seem like Thor didn’t upgrade his base, just got access to a super saiyan form.
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Oh, this.
They say thor uses his power over thunder which is his awakened mode as a means to pin Thanos down this is the first time thor also overpowered Thanos dropped him to his knees in 3 seconds possibly less also which means they see awakened mode > base
Some old art originally depicted Thor using his awakened mode to tank the star meaning there has to be a stat amp for this to make sense
In L&T thunder almost every time he faced gorr or did any strength task he would activate it
I came to the conclusion a while ago that Thor's lightning cloak/glow eyes self didn't get an amp until L&T. He's pressing Thanos for a second or two before he lights up, so there is no strength boost (the glow up doesn't make visual jump difference; no sudden shift in speed at overpowering). Concept art/deleted scenes can support the notion of a creator's intent, but being as Thor doesn't show a boost on screen, he doesn't have one yet. I do believe it to be an inconsistency, same as Cap not instantly shoving Stormbreaker into Thanos and basically being a non factor, even though he shpuld be another Thor when grabbing Stormbreaker. Or Carol not having a well defined binary look (it's the glowy eyes, as both solo films were rendered after Infinity War and Endgame).
So, technically I just contradicted myself. I don't believe he gets an amp, and yet I also believe it's an inconsistency. Take that for what you will, I guess.
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Thor after he awakened not only fried her with his lightning but was almost her equal with the official script of the movie going as far to say he could win thor before awakened stood absolutely no chance
Again moving someone is just moving there body weight especially if they aren’t resisting
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Yes it’s something he has to turn on
Thor base strength can grow its not like his base I stuck at one level
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Some sources say they were on par on the bridge, others that he was barely holding up. Granted, I believe he's fatigued from the throne room fight and the MULTIPLE stab wounds, something Hela can't relate to, given she gets stronger each moment. Like, Thor is the only one breathing hard out of the Revengers and Avengers Assemble shows that Thor does not feel great after being stabbed (bracing himself against a car after landing in the streets).
Like, if we're bringing up body weight logic, Thor could brace all he wants, but his 640lb arse is still getting sent by a mom in her Subaru. You can't just punch with the power of a flying moon while weighing 5 ounces and going like Mach 100 or something. In the MCU, it means something to move someone. Unless you're Nebula ramming into Thanos with a necrocraft. Or Rocket ramming into Ronan after he tanked the Hadron Emforcer.
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You can have no chance of beating someone and be able to hurt them, but that’s neither here nor there.
Main point I still have: Hulk was punching Pre-Awakening Thor around and then took 2 hits from awakened form. Nothing says that the awakening in that fight is quintillions of times weaker than the one later in the movie so either Thor isn’t that much more powerful or Hulk is just that strong. Bruce wanting him to defeat Cull lends to the belief that Hulk is in the same tier as the others, and thus creates the funny scaling chain of everyone being Low 4-C.
So you agree Pre-Awakening Thor is Low 4-C because he can take hits from Thanos without his thunder power on.
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Your confusing moving someone equals hurting especially in the mcu where fodder can move people much stronger but they don’t actually hurt them
Hulk was getting mega stomped after thor awakened and I doubt Thor was even going all out cause hulk/banner is his friend also wouldn’t that be a case of hulk durability being above his attack
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I’m referring to you saying Pre-Awakening had no chance of beating Hela. Thats irrelevant as you can be able to hurt someone and have no chance of beating them.
He got punched in the head two times but got back up after both. Maybe a few more would have put him down but he has the durability to survive hits from Awakened Thor. Also why would he not be going all out since he doesn’t even know what he’s doing? It was a rush of power he has no understanding of when he was dying, I doubt he even knew what he was using let alone had the ability to hold it back by quintillions of times for Hulk to not scale to it.
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The lightning cloak/glow eyes don't heal him, so he wasn't dying if he got up like nothing happened and even the oribital drop did nothing more than leave red marks on his skin when he wakes up later.
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He was seeing Odin in the afterlife so he was dying.
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Nothing said he was dying, and he gets up like nothing happened. Unlike when Thanos was stated to be a punch away from killing him in Endgame. He didn't see Odin then, but he did in Ragnarok, which probably has to do with the fact that he just lost Odin. The moment after Odin died, his fingers let off some electricity, so we know these later uncontaminated bursts would be tied to his wonky emotional state, which is the big thing going forward for Thor.
(The fact that his friend was the one punching him doesn't help.)
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He has Greater Healing with his Awakening, which credits that he healed from Hela’s sword stabs. So either that ability needs to be removed or he absolutely heals when he enters that form/when he unlocks it
Being punched repeatedly so much that he starts seeing visions of his dead father lends to the idea that either he’s getting close to death or Hulk is punching visions into him. And even then, if it’s causing him great injury or he’s experiencing intense emotions, that still doesn’t answer anything about him holding back. He literally would not have been able to hold back with this new power, he doesn’t even know what it is, he just blasted at Hulk in anger/defiance.
You’re arguing the wrong point my guy. Thor blasted Hulk with lightning with sheer anger/resilience. Explain how, in that emotional state where he is unstably using his powers, he held back to such a degree that its measured in Yottatons.
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What does that even mean you do realize Thor grows in strength
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Anyway how do we fix this scaling what’s the plan?
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So you believe that Thor needs a new Ragnarok key? You’re saying that he has to turn on his Awakening power up, which scales to Low 4-C. Yet he can take hits from Low 4-C characters without the power up visually on.
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I didn't know the wiki listed greater healing as one of his abilities. Mjolnir is the only thing that has healed him. I disagree with that notion, for the record.
Yeah, Thor let out a reactionary blast. I don't see why he would hold back either. It was just a quick punch (small wind up).
You have to understand that I'm the kind of guy who is very wary of power scaling. I more or less disassociate when talking about these crazy high calced feats (note me bringing up the case of Jotenheim and Sokovia, which I just remembered the wiki uses a 39 teraton calc for the former, a feat that was accomplished with no wind up, casually, while the other is 400ish gigatons and caused Thor pain for a 17 second wind up), because Thor gets staggered when being launched into a car. None of this makes sense, and a ton of people think of this site as a joke for that very view. I ease myself into things by saying that it would be costly to showcase MHS speed all of the time, or blowing up every location these characters find themselves in. Carol just reignited a (small) sun after being floored by an explosion that overpowered her 30mph flight speed and knocked away some fodder goons.
Relevant point, Thor isn't that much stronger than Hulk. The movies don't treat them as being wildly different, and the creator's think of Hulk as a less skilled Thanos.
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key what’s that have to do with this yes he has to turn on his awakened mode it’s clearly something he has to activate and again what does him having to turn it on have to do with any of this
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Stormbreaker
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